Does God promise all Old Testament promises through Christ?

[GreatistheLord]

Hi,

Paul is writing to the gentile Corinthian church and makes this *huge* statement.

For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

1 Cor 1:20

The promises here can only refer to the old testament, as the new testament was still being written, and certainly not canonised.

"For no matter how many promises God has made" - He's saying that there are a huge amount, but despite the number, they are *all* YES !

"Amen" is spoken by *US* - Paul is telling us to verbally agree with this,
and all these fullfilled promises to the gentiles are to God's glory!

Amazing! Praise God! Healing - its yours. Anecodotal rebuttals are irrelevant - this is Scripture.

 

[Faulty]

If you start back in verse 17, Paul begins to make the case that God is not wishy-washy concerning His promises, and verse 20 he declares that the promises God makes find their fulfillment in Him. In other words God watches over His word and performs it, just as the OT teaches.

However, Paul is speaking of a particular promise here, our sealing and guarantee of our salvation by the Spirit (v. 21-22) Yup, an OSAS passage.

God heals, but there is no guaranteed promise of all healing, and therefore, there is no "Yes" in Him involved. I don't see how you are using this passage to justify that assumption.

 

[franky67]

If you start back in verse 17, Paul begins to make the case that God is not wishy-washy concerning His promises, and verse 20 he declares that the promises God makes find their fulfillment in Him. In other words God watches over His word and performs it, just as the OT teaches.

However, Paul is speaking of a particular promise here, our sealing and guarantee of our salvation by the Spirit (v. 21-22) Yup, an OSAS passage.

God heals, but there is no guaranteed promise of all healing, and therefore, there is no "Yes" in Him involved. I don't see how you are using this passage to justify that assumption.

Faulty, thats putting words into scripture that aren't there. The words"as many as" means all in every verse it's used, so it is incorrect to make an interpretation of that verse to mean Paul is speaking only of God's promise of salvation.

Yes verse 21,22 say we are sealed by the Spirit, and established in Christ, but those verses don't change the fact that Paul states that ALL the promises of God are ours in Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If you start back in verse 17, Paul begins to make the case that God is not wishy-washy concerning His promises, and verse 20 he declares that the promises God makes find their fulfillment in Him. In other words God watches over His word and performs it, just as the OT teaches.

However, Paul is speaking of a particular promise here, our sealing and guarantee of our salvation by the Spirit (v. 21-22) Yup, an OSAS passage.

God heals, but there is no guaranteed promise of all healing, and therefore, there is no "Yes" in Him involved. I don't see how you are using this passage to justify that assumption.

Old Testament promises and requirements were written for Old Covenant folks. For any Old Covenant promise to be applicable to New Covenant born again Christians, they would need to have been repeated and confirmed by either Jesus in the Gospels or by the Apostles in their instructions to the Christian churches.

Every promise in the Old Covenant has a requirement for that promise to be effective. Those requirements were for Old Covenant people. These people were unconverted and were not filled with the Holy Spirit.

The New Covenant brought in a complete new and different way of approaching God, and the requirements were no longer based on the Law. We are no longer under the Law, but are filled with the Holy Spirit who is guiding us into all truth. Only those parts of the Old Covenant Law that are restated under the New Covenant are applicable to born again Christians.

Concerning healing. For the New Covenant, healing is part of our redemption in Christ. It has not only been promised (which was the state in Jesus's earthly ministry when He said, "By His stripes ye are healed"), but the promise was conditional on Jesus being whipped, and as soon as He was whipped, it was by His stripes that we are healed. So, the healings that were given by Jesus were conditional on the promise that when He was whipped, those healings would be confirmed. One commentator has said that if Jesus was set free without getting a whipping, maybe all those healed people would become sick again. But as soon as Jesus was whipped, the promise was fulfilled, the conditions met, and the healings confirmed.

Now that Jesus was whipped, and after His resurrection, Peter was able to say "By His stripes we WERE healed". This means that healing is no longer promised, because the conditions have already been met. God has already bestowed healing. This is why we can lay hands on sick people and declare them healed. We don't have to ask God for something He has already made available to us through our redemption in Christ.

The reason why people are not healed is because of wrong teaching. 85 percent of healing teaching and practice in the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches does not work. This is because people are ministering healing in unbelief. They are asking God for something He has already given, making a sideshow of the healing ministry, and implying that certain men have special powers for healing, when we are merely representatives of Christ.

If we look at the ministries of John G Lake, Smith Wigglesworth, and Maria Woodworth-Etter, you will see that they ministered healing in quite a different way than modern healing ministries today. When a guy puts on a white suit, gets up on a stage as a showman, then that's all he is. You will find that 99 percent of healings in those crusades do not happen. God will not share His glory with anyone. The healing ministry is not a sideshow.

Actually, the bulk of the healing ministry is not for Christians at all. It is for unconverted people to show them that Jesus is alive and the Gospel is really true, in order to bring them to Christ. So, in my belief, healing services in most of our P/C churches is a waste of time and mostly ineffective.

We have to go back to the Gospels and see how Jesus did it. When we read those accounts, we can see clearly that Jesus conducted healing in a totally different way to what most P/C churches do.

 

[franky67]

Old Testament promises and requirements were written for Old Covenant folks. For any Old Covenant promise to be applicable to New Covenant born again Christians, they would need to have been repeated and confirmed by either Jesus in the Gospels or by the Apostles in their instructions to the Christian churches.

Every promise in the Old Covenant has a requirement for that promise to be effective. Those requirements were for Old Covenant people. These people were unconverted and were not filled with the Holy Spirit.

The New Covenant brought in a complete new and different way of approaching God, and the requirements were no longer based on the Law. We are no longer under the Law, but are filled with the Holy Spirit who is guiding us into all truth. Only those parts of the Old Covenant Law that are restated under the New Covenant are applicable to born again Christians.

Concerning healing. For the New Covenant, healing is part of our redemption in Christ. It has not only been promised (which was the state in Jesus's earthly ministry when He said, "By His stripes ye are healed"), but the promise was conditional on Jesus being whipped, and as soon as He was whipped, it was by His stripes that we are healed. So, the healings that were given by Jesus were conditional on the promise that when He was whipped, those healings would be confirmed. One commentator has said that if Jesus was set free without getting a whipping, maybe all those healed people would become sick again. But as soon as Jesus was whipped, the promise was fulfilled, the conditions met, and the healings confirmed.

Now that Jesus was whipped, and after His resurrection, Peter was able to say "By His stripes we WERE healed". This means that healing is no longer promised, because the conditions have already been met. God has already bestowed healing. This is why we can lay hands on sick people and declare them healed. We don't have to ask God for something He has already made available to us through our redemption in Christ.

The reason why people are not healed is because of wrong teaching. 85 percent of healing teaching and practice in the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches does not work. This is because people are ministering healing in unbelief. They are asking God for something He has already given, making a sideshow of the healing ministry, and implying that certain men have special powers for healing, when we are merely representatives of Christ.

If we look at the ministries of John G Lake, Smith Wigglesworth, and Maria Woodworth-Etter, you will see that they ministered healing in quite a different way than modern healing ministries today. When a guy puts on a white suit, gets up on a stage as a showman, then that's all he is. You will find that 99 percent of healings in those crusades do not happen. God will not share His glory with anyone. The healing ministry is not a sideshow.

Actually, the bulk of the healing ministry is not for Christians at all. It is for unconverted people to show them that Jesus is alive and the Gospel is really true, in order to bring them to Christ. So, in my belief, healing services in most of our P/C churches is a waste of time and mostly ineffective.

We have to go back to the Gospels and see how Jesus did it. When we read those accounts, we can see clearly that Jesus conducted healing in a totally different way to what most P/C churches do.

Malachi calls Christ the "Messenger of the Covenant"

Romans 15:8
"For I (Paul) say that Christ came as a servant to the circumcision, on behalf of the truth of God, to confirm the promises given to the fathers"

No, Oscar, it's the same promises, and they are for us who are in Christ.

Galatians 3:29
"And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs, according to promise."

But I agree about the healing, already having been done.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Malachi calls Christ the "Messenger of the Covenant"

Romans 15:8
"For I (Paul) say that Christ came as a servant to the circumcision, on behalf of the truth of God, to confirm the promises given to the fathers"

No, Oscar, it's the same promises, and they are for us who are in Christ.

Galatians 3:29
"And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs, according to promise."

But I agree about the healing, already having been done.

I can see what you are getting at. Yes. God gave promises to Abraham which are fulfilled in Christ. But Abraham was a gentile and not a Jew, and therefore was not under the Law, which came into force under Moses.

Abraham believed God and this was counted towards him as righteousness. So he had a righteousness of faith which is the same as we have in Christ.

I am assuming that "the fathers" referred to are Jacob's sons after whom the twelve tribes of Israel are named. This was well before the introduction of the Law as well.

I think that I am confusing the promises and requirements that came through the Law, which brought in the Old Covenant. The convenant at that time was that if the people obeyed the Law, then they could be righteous, but if they broke the Law, they could offer a sacrifice to cover their sin.

Abraham didn't have to do that, because he was not under the Old Covenant, because the Old Covenant did not exist yet. He wasn't under a covenant at all. He was reckoned righteous through his faith in God.

Actually the New Covenant in Christ was foreshadowed by the relationship that Abraham had with God.

This is interesting when you think about it.

Adam's relationship with God was based on innocence.
Abraham's relationship was based on his faith.
The Old Covenant Jews' relationship was based on the Law
Our relationship is based on Christ (the New Covenant).

 

[dkbwarrior]

It is interesting to note that the New Covenant really isn't New at all. It is New in the sense that it replaced the Old, but it really is simply the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant.

It is pretty hard to justify the statement that when Paul says ALL (plural) of the promises of God are yes and amen, that it is really only referring to one. In fact, that is just plain silly.

A covenant, what we might call a contract today, is simply an agreement between two or more parties, to which both parties have obligations and benefits. It is a legal term.

God made a covenant with Abraham and His seed. This covenant was written down by succeeding generations of Abrahams seed, and is contained in the Old Testament. It tells us what God agrees to do for man (the promises) and what man agrees to do for God (the law). It also contains the consequences of man not keeping his side of it, and provisions for making up for that in the animal sacrifice.

God knew that man could not keep his side, and in His wisdom, the animal sacrifices were prophetic of the fact that God would send His own Son here to the earth to fulfil the law by both living a perfect life, yet still paying the full consequence of disobedience, thus purchasing those promises for all mankind, WITHOUT THE NECCESITY OF THEM DOING ANYTHING BUT BELIEVING.

The New Covenant, being a fulfillment of the Old, was also entirely written by Abrahams seed. The entire New Testament is simply an explanation to us of how the requirements of man in the Old were fulfilled in the life of Christ, so that all the promises could be available to all men by faith. It also contains many new promises, but it doesn't get rid of any of the the Old. It cannot get rid of the Old Covenant promises, because God told Abraham that His covenant with him was an EVERLASTING COVENANT.

Therefore the New Covenant is simply the ratification of the Old Covenant, where all the promises are YES and AMEN, but their are no requirements of law left for man to fulfil, other than to believe. The Old Covenant was two sided, what God would do and what man would do. The New Covenant is one side, what God will do. All we have to do is believe. The law has been fulfilled, both by the perfect life that Jesus led, and by His act of perfect sacrifice on calvary. Through Jesus mankind has fulfilled his part of the covenant. It is only a one sided covenant now, the promises of God.

That is why: ALL THE PROMISES ARE YES AND AMEN IN HIM

Peace...

 

[JRSut1000]

Some promises concerned all who are in YHWH (don't forget there is no longer a 'middle wall of separation' but now we are one new man in Christ, Jew and Gentile) while some promises were specific for the land and people of Israel.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Some promises concerned all who are in YHWH (don't forget there is no longer a 'middle wall of separation' but now we are one new man in Christ, Jew and Gentile) while some promises were specific for the land and people of Israel.

I understand what you are saying, but even those have a metaphorical application to the Gentiles.

For instance, someone once asked me if I really believed that why don't I believe for some land in Isreal. To which I replied, I don't live in Israel, why would I want some land there? I live in the United States, and I have believed God for land here, and He has given it to me. I own my house and land outright, without any mortgage or loan against it.

I can't believe God for the walls of Jerico to fall before me, because I am not in a battle with Jerico. But if I am in a similar situation, physical or spiritual, I can believe God for the victory, because of the fact that God promised Joshua victory.

We don't get to believe for and expect to receive any promise we want, just to be sensational or make a point or to prove something to a doubter. After all, that is what satan tried to get Jesus to do at the pinnacle of the temple. That is called tempting the Lord. Faith works by love, and tempting the Lord is not walking in love.

But God is no respecter of persons. We can take any promise, and apply it to the context of our situation, and believe God for it, because ALL THE PROMISES OF GOD ARE YES AND AMEN. You will have to show me the scripture that says all the promises of God except for the ones to Israel. I don't think that one is in my Bible.

Peace...

 

[JRSut1000]

God made a covenant that He would preserve their seed. Physically, He has indeed done this despite A.D. 70, the Holocaust, and potential threats and war against Israel that still rages on.

 

[dkbwarrior]

God made a covenant that He would preserve their seed. Physically, He has indeed done this despite A.D. 70, the Holocaust, and potential threats and war against Israel that still rages on.

This is true. I think I can believe God for that in regards to my seed also. Why not? He is no respecter of persons.

Peace...

 

[franky67]

I can see what you are getting at. Yes. God gave promises to Abraham which are fulfilled in Christ. But Abraham was a gentile and not a Jew, and therefore was not under the Law, which came into force under Moses.

Abraham believed God and this was counted towards him as righteousness. So he had a righteousness of faith which is the same as we have in Christ.

I am assuming that "the fathers" referred to are Jacob's sons after whom the twelve tribes of Israel are named. This was well before the introduction of the Law as well.

I think that I am confusing the promises and requirements that came through the Law, which brought in the Old Covenant. The convenant at that time was that if the people obeyed the Law, then they could be righteous, but if they broke the Law, they could offer a sacrifice to cover their sin.

Abraham didn't have to do that, because he was not under the Old Covenant, because the Old Covenant did not exist yet. He wasn't under a covenant at all. He was reckoned righteous through his faith in God.

Actually the New Covenant in Christ was foreshadowed by the relationship that Abraham had with God.

This is interesting when you think about it.

Adam's relationship with God was based on innocence.
Abraham's relationship was based on his faith.
The Old Covenant Jews' relationship was based on the Law
Our relationship is based on Christ (the New Covenant).

Look at what Mary and Zacharias said about the coming Jesus
And John the Baptist's father, Zacharias said, speaking of Mary's baby to come, said "..........to show mercy to our fathers, and to remember His holy covenant, the oath which He swore to Abraham our father." Luke 1:67-73

It's the "Abrahamic Covenant which is everlasting. Remember ? that's where the circumcision thing started. see Gen. Chapter 17, and Galatians 3:29

 

[mercyfollowsme]

looks like we've got that stitched up. OT promises are for all believers in Christ!

Yeah!!!!!!

 

[Emcomus]

Oscar,

Benny Hinn, the man in a white coat, is not what you consider a showman. Yes he orchestra's a public worship, but its through God's unconditional love, Christ strips, and The Power of The Holy Spirit people are healed.

 

[K2K]

Hi,

Paul is writing to the gentile Corinthian church and makes this *huge* statement.

For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

1 Cor 1:20

The promises here can only refer to the old testament, as the new testament was still being written, and certainly not canonised.

"For no matter how many promises God has made" - He's saying that there are a huge amount, but despite the number, they are *all* YES !

"Amen" is spoken by *US* - Paul is telling us to verbally agree with this,
and all these fullfilled promises to the gentiles are to God's glory!

Amazing! Praise God! Healing - its yours. Anecodotal rebuttals are irrelevant - this is Scripture.

I kind of disagree with the above post. Certainly God gave us promises in the Old Testiment, and those promise are the general type of promised that God makes and so are for us, if we meet the criteria.

For example, God said if His people to harken to His voice He would heal the land. So there was a condition of listening to His voice. And we have conditions of belief that was counted to Abram as righteousness.

Still, God promised to Abraham that his children would be numerous like the stars in heavens, and that promise might not and probably doesn't apply to any one of us. So I think some descretion is needed when we make too general a statement.

Now I think Jesus Christ is the promise, and He is the Word of God, because He talks to us. And because He talks to us, just like He, the word of the Lord, appears to Abram and made promises to Abram when He talked to Abram, it should be expected that He would make us promises that might apply specifically to us but not to someone in the Old Testament.

For example, He could promise someone that if they went to Africa and serve Him there, that He would put them incharge of a healing ministry. The point is that Jesus Christ can and does give us promises that are for us, just like He gave Abram promises that were specifically for him.