Does God ordain all things?

[Ilikecats]

??? No.

Who was it that invented the Pagan practice of sacrifices? HUMAN BEINGS DID. God submitted to creation's need for sacrifice in the OT and he submitted to creation's need on the cross. This submission is called LOVE.

No sacrifice isn’t pagan. Where are you even getting this from? Its not biblical. God didn’t submit to creation’s need. Creation didn’t need a saviour humanity did. Jesus didn’t submit to creation he submitted to the Father by taking the punishment of sins on the cross as a perfect sacrifice. It’s a sacrifice. Where in the bible does it say sacrifice is a pagan practice? The sacrifice of Christ is the epitome of Christianity not some sort of pagan ritual.

 

[agapelove]

No sacrifice isn’t pagan. Where are you even getting this from? Its not biblical.

Yes it is.

Deuteronomy 32:37-38: He will say: “Now where are their gods, the rock they took refuge in, the gods who ate the fat of their sacrifices and drank the wine of their drink offerings?"

Leviticus 17:7 They must no longer offer any of their sacrifices to the goat idols to whom they prostitute themselves. This is to be a lasting ordinance for them and for the generations to come.

You should really try to see Christ's atonement as more than just some blood sacrifice.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Just to get this out front, I believe He does.

I was listening to a podcast today on contentment and this verse was brought up.


Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

One of the reasons that we need not worry is that God is in control of all things. Everything is ordered according to His purpose. David recognized this. In fact, all of 139 is a kind of an anthem to His sovereignty over our lives.


“Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass.
— Job 14:5

So am I right? Is David right?

It’s now open for discussion.

None of those verses establish your point.

First the number of dats doesn’t control what YOU DO with those days and those verses don’t say they do.

That God sets limits doesn’t determine what YOU DO with those days.

David was right but you are wrong? David never thought as you did. When David sinned, he didn’t blame God who you think would have ordained that sin. Adam and Eve spoke to God face to face and never blamed God for ordaining their choices.

I feel very sorry for christians who believe God ordains everything. They’re in for a big disappointment.

 

[Hammster]

He knew sin would enter into the world because of free choice ... and the Plan of Salvation was put in place before creation so that through the cross ... through those accepting Jesus would be reconciled back into His perfect will ... which is living in a world without sin .... living in a world according to His perfect will (no sin) ... by choice .... not by force.

FOREKNOWLEDGE ... he knew it (rebellion) would happen ... he knew Lucifer & the 1/3 would rebel ... he knew Adam & Eve would sin (when they did so it polluted all the perfection He had created .... everything He made before sin (rebellion of His created beings) was perfect ... intelligent beings made the choice to rebel (go outside His will) .... the rebellion whether then or now ... is a result of choices made (and He knows all the choices that would/will be made, but does not make the choices) ... knowing this the Plan of Salvation (that included the cross) was put in place ... put in place because He knew the choices would be to go outside of His perfect will. The decision by our Lord to willingly lay down His life was made before anything was created .... because He knew what choices would be made by His created beings. Foreknowledge.

You seem to keep avoiding this ...

Did God create sin?

Your “He knew” argument leaves Him passively watching. It’s convenient. And for Christ to die on the cross at the exact time God wanted Him to, then everything had to work perfect without God’s intervening at any point.

That’s just not how scripture describes God working.

 

[Hammster]

You don't understand foreknowledge nor freewill evidentially.

You’ve not actually addressed the OP. I think I understand both.

 

[Hammster]

None of those verses establish your point.

First the number of dats doesn’t control what YOU DO with those days and those verses don’t say they do.

That God sets limits doesn’t determine what YOU DO with those days.

David was right but you are wrong? David never thought as you did. When David sinned, he didn’t blame God who you think would have ordained that sin. Adam and Eve spoke to God face to face and never blamed God for ordaining their choices.

I feel very sorry for christians who believe God ordains everything. They’re in for a big disappointment.

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

For your argument to be true, David would have had to mean that all God knew was that David would be alive for a certain amount of days.

Is that what you are saying ?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Just to get this out front, I believe He does.

I was listening to a podcast today on contentment and this verse was brought up.


Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

One of the reasons that we need not worry is that God is in control of all things. Everything is ordered according to His purpose. David recognized this. In fact, all of 139 is a kind of an anthem to His sovereignty over our lives.


“Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass.
— Job 14:5

So am I right? Is David right?

It’s now open for discussion.

David is correct but it wasnt just David. Even Christ said God ordained all things and for us not to worry ( Matthew 6:25-34) also there are hundreds of verses in the Bible where God said Do not fear I will be with you and I will uphold you with my righteous hand ...etc. Of course God ordained all things and is constantly with his people. If he wasnt in complete control of every second of his people's livess at the very least than there would have been no chance of salvation. You cannot convince me that all of the prophets, kings, and people chosen by God obeyed God PERFECTLY to even make salvation possible in the first place. Let alone save everyone written in Gods book of life. Just because they wanted to out of their free will. Nit to mention this obedience was perfect as if Gods people dont commit sin. Nope. God did the work.

Think about it. In order for salvation to occur Noah's family would have had to completely obey and believe God to the tee and tiniest detail. Why do you think they did? Luck? Or because they wanted to follow God? I'll give you the second one but what made them want to follow God in the first place? Whag took away their sin nature and made them turn to God? What caused them to literally be the only Godly family on the whole planet? Not only that why did they obey God perfectly their entire lives? If they messed up on even one slight detail of Gods plan salvation wouldnt have been possible. Or at the very least one of those written in Gods book of life that he wrote from the foundation of the world couldnt have been saved because they couldnt have been born. Dont forget ALL of humanity from after the flood descended from Noah and his family. If they didnt completely obey God parts of his chosen Children could not have been born. If you're not born you cannot be saved. So how is it that a sinful family could perfectly obey God without making one single mistake if God wasnt in control of the tiniest details of their lives and If God did not plan every second before they were born.

Who was it that put Issac in Sarah's womb? Abraham? No. It was God! How could God promise Abraham that through him all of Gods children will be saved? If God didnt interfere with placing Issac into Sarah's womb. Dont forget Sarah was powerless to make a baby on her own. She was barren. Same Goes for Mary. She didnt make Jesus God put him there. If she made Jesus it would have been impossible for Christ to achieve sinless perfection and therefore it would have been impossible for Christ to save us.


The list could go on and on. In order for Gods perfect plan to save those who were written in the book of life, no matter how you believe their names came to be there, God had to be in complete control of all of us. Think about it. We also follow God. God tells us to spread the gospel so we do. Many of us win souls to Christ. If we screw up in even the slightest ways some people could not be saved and Gods perfect plan wouldnt be perfect. Yes, God is in complete control. He knows all who are saved and all who are not and not one of Gods children will not be saved. Otherwise God lied several times in scripture. Theres only two options, either hes a liar, or he told the truth and n8t one of his children will be lost and hes in complete control and is the ultimate authority in the choices we make. I vote #2 because, I believe scripture and what God said.

 

[Scott Husted]

Just to get this out front, I believe He does.

I was listening to a podcast today on contentment and this verse was brought up.


Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

One of the reasons that we need not worry is that God is in control of all things. Everything is ordered according to His purpose. David recognized this. In fact, all of 139 is a kind of an anthem to His sovereignty over our lives.


“Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass.
— Job 14:5

So am I right? Is David right?

It’s now open for discussion.

No ... I'm right ... of course I agree with you! ... how else could you fully trust Him.

 

[BBAS 64]

Sure did Eph 1:11

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

For your argument to be true, David would have had to mean that all God knew was that David would be alive for a certain amount of days.

Is that what you are saying ?

Where did David ever tell God that He (God) ordained everything he (David) would do on those days? David talked to God A LOT. Where did he express this “God ordains everything I do” theology?

 

[Hammster]

Where did David ever tell God that He (God) ordained everything he (David) would do on those days? David talked to God A LOT. Where did he express this “God ordains everything I do” theology?

That doesn’t answer my question.

 

[eleos1954]

You’ve not actually addressed the OP. I think I understand both.

I did address the OP ... Does God ordain everything ... I replied that was too general of a term .... then ... you said you couldn't think of anything .... I replied .... sin ....
it was stated ... sin was part of His plan ... I say no .... and asked the question ....

Did God create sin?

of which you have never answered

so ... yes .... it is completely in line with the OP

 

[Hammster]

Did God create sin?

Does God ordain all things?

 

[eleos1954]

Does God ordain all things?

ok ... Did God ordain sin?

Went into the Hebrew & Greek and look up ordained (used Psalm 31:13)
phrased used you have ordained ...

following from strong's

Hebrew
yasad: to establish, found, fix
Original Word: יָסַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: yasad
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw-sad')
Definition: to establish, found, fix

In the Greek (used from Galatians 3:19)

diatassó: to arrange thoroughly, i.e. to charge, appoint
Original Word: διατάσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: diatassó
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-at-as'-so)
Definition: to arrange thoroughly, to charge, appoint
Usage: I give orders to, prescribe, arrange.

Did He establish or give orders, arrange for sin?

 

[Hammster]

ok ... Did God ordain sin?

Went into the Hebrew & Greek and look up ordained (used Psalm 31:13)
phrased used you have ordained ...

following from strong's

Hebrew
yasad: to establish, found, fix
Original Word: יָסַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: yasad
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw-sad')
Definition: to establish, found, fix

In the Greek (used from Galatians 3:19)

diatassó: to arrange thoroughly, i.e. to charge, appoint
Original Word: διατάσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: diatassó
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-at-as'-so)
Definition: to arrange thoroughly, to charge, appoint
Usage: I give orders to, prescribe, arrange.

Did He establish or give orders, arrange for sin?

God didn’t make man sin, but sin was part of His plan.

 

[BBAS 64]

I did address the OP ... Does God ordain everything ... I replied that was too general of a term .... then ... you said you couldn't think of anything .... I replied .... sin ....
it was stated ... sin was part of His plan ... I say no .... and asked the question ....

Did God create sin?

of which you have never answered

so ... yes .... it is completely in line with the OP

Good Day, Eleos

Is sin a creation?

If so who created it and if not what is it?

What is your view of primary and secondary causes?

In Him

Bill

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No ... I'm right ... of course I agree with you! ... how else could you fully trust Him.

How can you fully trust a being who makes people sin so He can send them to hell????

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That doesn’t answer my question.

Actually it does. I know you want to isolate a verse you want to make your own interpretation of but the honest search for truth requires looking at all of what is written.

 

[Hammster]

How can you fully trust a being who makes people sin so He can send them to hell????

I couldn’t trust a being like that.

 

[Hammster]

Actually it does. I know you want to isolate a verse you want to make your own interpretation of but the honest search for truth requires looking at all of what is written.

It doesn’t answer my question. Go back and read it.