Does God ordain all things?

[Hammster]

Just to get this out front, I believe He does.

I was listening to a podcast today on contentment and this verse was brought up.


Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

One of the reasons that we need not worry is that God is in control of all things. Everything is ordered according to His purpose. David recognized this. In fact, all of 139 is a kind of an anthem to His sovereignty over our lives.


“Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass.
— Job 14:5

So am I right? Is David right?

It’s now open for discussion.

 

[ZNP]

I believe that this is a time for us to reflect on our standing before the Lord. It is a time to repent of any sins, to return to the Lord and to walk by faith. As Paul said "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God."

I am thankful that I could be alive in these days. I was always jealous of the disciples who walked with Jesus, and the Israelites who came out of Egypt with Moses, but given the choice between the three I would choose to be alive at this time.

When you look at all the prophesies concerning this time (I have been looking closer at Joel, Amos and Habakkuk, but also other verses in the NT) it is very clear that the Lord knew all about what was going to happen. Never once are we asked to solve these problems, rather we are asked to "trust and obey".

Yes, God has ordained these. He warned us. Even recently. We had SARS, MERS, and Ebola and every country should have had plenty of warning about a pandemic. There were people who sounded the alarm two years ago. Hollywood made movies of this. But at some point, God has to judge. To me, the mortgage crisis was the final straw. When I realized these banking executives knew what they were doing, they knew the bond market would collapse and that would trigger an economic collapse, but they also knew the Government would bail them out, they wouldn't go to jail, they wouldn't lose their jobs, they wouldn't lose their money, instead they would get big fat bonuses and the taxpayer would pay the bill. At that point God has to judge.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes. I think J.I. Packer nicely shows this referring to Hebrews 6:17-18:


“What God does in time, he planned from eternity. And all that he planned in eternity he carries out in time. And all that he has in his Word committed himself to do will infallibly be done. Thus we read of “the immutability of his counsel” to bring believers into full enjoyment of their promised inheritance, and of the immutable oath by which he confirmed this counsel to Abraham, the archetypal believer, both for Abraham’s own assurance and for ours too (Hebrews 6: 17-18). So it is with all God’s announced intentions. They do not change. No part of his eternal plan changes.”

— Knowing God by J. I. Packer

 

[1213]

Does God ordain all things?

I believe so, because I think God has given limits to all, what they are allowed to do.

 

[eleos1954]

Just to get this out front, I believe He does.

I was listening to a podcast today on contentment and this verse was brought up.


Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalm 139:16

One of the reasons that we need not worry is that God is in control of all things. Everything is ordered according to His purpose. David recognized this. In fact, all of 139 is a kind of an anthem to His sovereignty over our lives.


“Since his days are determined,
The number of his months is with You;
And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass.
— Job 14:5

So am I right? Is David right?

It’s now open for discussion.

Does God ordain all things?

All things? No .... all things that are within His sovereign will ... yes.

All things by itself is too general of a term.

 

[Hammster]

Does God ordain all things?

All things? No .... all things that are within His sovereign will ... yes.

All things by itself is too general of a term.

How about the days of our lives?

(and I can’t imagine what’s outside of His sovereign will)

 

[eleos1954]

How about the days of our lives?

(and I can’t imagine what’s outside of His sovereign will)

sin is outside of His sovereign will

 

[Hammster]

sin is outside of His sovereign will

That’s not biblical, even in the Psalm in the OP. All of his days are ordained.

 

[eleos1954]

That’s not biblical, even in the Psalm in the OP. All of his days are ordained.

A sin is anything that isn’t pleasing to God. It may be something we do or say, or an evil thought or selfish motive — but whatever it is, it isn’t God’s will.

 

[Hammster]

A sin is anything that isn’t pleasing to God. It may be something we do or say, or an evil thought or selfish motive — but whatever it is, it isn’t God’s will.

That thought process rules out the cross.

Also, we have clear teaching that God is in control of everything (see the OP). This would include Him ordaining what happened with Bathsheba and her husband. I have other scripture, but at this point you haven’t addressed Psalm 139, so I don’t want to leave there just yet.

 

[eleos1954]

That thought process rules out the cross.

Also, we have clear teaching that God is in control of everything (see the OP). This would include Him ordaining what happened with Bathsheba and her husband. I have other scripture, but at this point you haven’t addressed Psalm 139, so I don’t want to leave there just yet.

No it doesn't .... the Lord Jesus willingly laid down His life in order that the world might be saved through Him (He wasn't forced to forfeit His life by the Father).

Matthew 26:53

Berean Study Bible
Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

well ... if God ordains everything including sin then that seems to yield to predestination, that I am not a proponent of .... perhaps you are. If so, I agree to disagree on that point.

It would seem Gods foreknowledge ... he knows who will be conceived and what they will do in their life ... but doesn't control their ultimate choices.

God didn't want David to commit adultery or murder (he didn't ordain it) ... He wouldn't ordain sin ....
but He did know (foreknowledge) this would happen and that ultimately David would ask for forgiveness and repent.

 

[Hammster]

No it doesn't .... the Lord Jesus willingly laid down His life in order that the world might be saved through Him (He wasn't forced to forfeit His life by the Father).

Matthew 26:53

Berean Study Bible
Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

well ... if God ordains everything including sin then that seems to yield to predestination, that I am not a proponent of .... perhaps you are. If so, I agree to disagree on that point.

It would seem Gods foreknowledge ... he knows who will be conceived and what they will do in their life ... but doesn't control their ultimate choices.

God didn't want David to commit adultery or murder (he didn't ordain it) ... He wouldn't ordain sin ....
but He did know (foreknowledge) this would happen and that ultimately David would ask for forgiveness and repent.

If He doesn’t ordain sin, then there is no cross. It’s the greatest of all sins.

 

[Hammster]

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
— Psalms 139:16

 

[eleos1954]

If He doesn’t ordain sin, then there is no cross. It’s the greatest of all sins.

God didn't create sin ... he created everything perfect and gave freewill to all His intelligent beings. The choices to go outside His perfection where just that choices.

Jesus was not forced to the cross He laid down his life freely. His will and the Fathers will are the same .... and their will is for us not to sin.

If Lucifer & the 1/3 along with Adam & Eve had NOT sinned (gone outside of the will of God) there would not be sin in the world.

Foreknowledge .... did God know mankind would sin? Yes .... did He force anyone to sin? No. Did He force Jesus to the cross? No Jesus willingly laid down His life for mankind so we would someday be fully reconciled with Him. Thank you Jesus!

It was both the will of the Father and the will of Jesus that the Plan of Salvation would be through Jesus ... they both have the same will and the way to salvation was put in place before creation. The decision to lay down His life was made before creation.

I am not in any way, shape or form dismissing what happen at Calvary ... and take exception of that being insinuated.

This question comes up fairly frequently.

Did God create sin? What's your answer?

 

[Hammster]

God didn't create sin ... he created everything perfect and gave freewill to all His intelligent beings. The choices to go outside His perfection where just that choices.

Jesus was not forced to the cross He laid down his life freely. His will and the Fathers will are the same .... and their will is for us not to sin.

If Lucifer & the 1/3 along with Adam & Eve had NOT sinned (gone outside of the will of God) there would not be sin in the world.

Foreknowledge .... did God know mankind would sin? Yes .... did He force anyone to sin? No. Did He force Jesus to the cross? No Jesus willingly laid down His life for mankind so we would someday be fully reconciled with Him. Thank you Jesus!

It was both the will of the Father and the will of Jesus that the Plan of Salvation would be through Jesus ... they both have the same will and the way to salvation was put in place before creation. The decision to lay down His life was made before creation.

I am not in any way, shape or form dismissing what happen at Calvary ... and take exception of that being insinuated.

This question comes up fairly frequently.

Did God create sin? What's your answer?

I’m not saying that you are dismissing what happened on Calvary. What I’m saying is that if God didn’t ordain sin, it never would have happened. It was His plan from the beginning.

 

[agapelove]

I am convinced that Freedom of Inclination is the correct view on Free Will.

So yes I believe God ordains all things, for we are but clay in the potter's hands.

 

[eleos1954]

I’m not saying that you are dismissing what happened on Calvary. What I’m saying is that if God didn’t ordain sin, it never would have happened. It was His plan from the beginning.

ok ... glad that's not the case ;o)

This question comes up fairly frequently.

Did God create sin? What's your answer?

 

[Hammster]

ok ... glad that's not the case ;o)

???

 

[eleos1954]

???

was glad it was not the case that you were insinuating I was dismissing the cross.

 

[eleos1954]

I’m not saying that you are dismissing what happened on Calvary. What I’m saying is that if God didn’t ordain sin, it never would have happened. It was His plan from the beginning.

and what I'm saying .... is .... He did not create it ... nor ordain it .... but because of His foreknowledge He knew it would happen ... and the Plan of Salvation was put in place.

Through His foreknowledge ... He knew what choices would be made ... choices would be to go outside His will and His will is not to sin. He didn't PLan sin ... He knew by giving freewill sin would happen .... the PLAN put in place was the plan of salvation.

If not ... again ... how do you answer the question.

Did God create sin?