Does God only impute righteousness to us, or does He also impart it?

justbyfaith

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It would be quite unusual for any married couple to not have sexual relations within the marriage, in fact it is unheard of. Consider Mark 6:3-4. After proclaiming that Jesus had brothers and sisters, it testifies of Jesus' statement that He as a prophet did not have honour AMONG HIS OWN KIN. Also, Jesus did not become sinful in the incarnation. He was without sin, Hebrews 4:15, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:22, 1 John 3:5. He became sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God in Him, ON THE CROSS. 2 Corinthians 5:21, Habakkuk 2:4.
 
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Arsenios

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It would be quite unusual for any married couple to not have sexual relations within the marriage, in fact it is unheard of.

So too is a virgin birth unheard of... Or God incarnating in her womb... Nothing about this matter is usual... The whole of it is steeped in great Mystery... You cannot sexually carnalize the Blessed Virgin Mother of God Incarnate with her betrothal and marriage to Joseph... And I do not believe that even her marriage to him is recorded in Scripture... It was presumed at least by the neighbors, but who knows what happened in Egypt?

Consider Mark 6:3-4. After proclaiming that Jesus had brothers and sisters, it testifies of Jesus' statement that He as a prophet did not have honour AMONG HIS OWN KIN.

You still have not addressed or considered the matter of the concealment of Christ prior to His Ministry... Born of the Blessed Virgin, He was concealed in a betrothal that with Joseph's consent concealed His real Father, and made to appear as a normal child... He was then concealed in the flight of the family to Egypt, and upon returning, His concealment continued until He began His Ministry...

Also, Jesus did not become sinful in the incarnation.

Good - No one has said that He did...
He inherited death from the Blessed Virgin...
"...For that all have sinned..."
Except for Him... Romans 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,
and death
(entered the world) by sin;
and so death passed upon all men,

for that (literally 'through which') all have sinned:

It is through death that that all have sinned...
It is death that is passed upon all men...
Adam sinned and infected all men with death...

Christ incarnated into this human death and brought it back to Life...
In Himself, in His Own Body...
The Body of Which we are members in the Ekklesia of God...

This is basic stuff...

He was without sin, Hebrews 4:15, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:22, 1 John 3:5. He became sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God in Him, ON THE CROSS. 2 Corinthians 5:21, Habakkuk 2:4.

:oldthumbsup:

Arsenios
 
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prodromos

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It would be quite unusual for any married couple to not have sexual relations within the marriage, in fact it is unheard of.
Not unheard of. I personally know one such couple and have heard of a few others.
 
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The Times

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I would bring to the forefront Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, and 1 John 3:7.

I'm interested in anyone else's thoughts.

shall the many be made righteous.

It is an ongoing process and a person only arrives there after biological death and is judged to receive their crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:6-8)

he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:

This does not speak of righteousness by nature. All it is saying that one does the right thing, then it is the right thing to do, because it would be expected of that person to do the right thing in the first place.

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

This speaks of being filled by the righteousness of another party and that party is Jesus Christ. Hence it is an imputation.

Righteousness is never imparted to us in this temporal realm, because we don't own or lay claim to having possession of it.
 
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Arsenios

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Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness:
for they shall be filled.


This speaks of being filled by the righteousness of another party and that party is Jesus Christ.
Hence it is an imputation.

Righteousness is never imparted to us in this temporal realm,
because we don't own or lay claim to having possession of it.

I do not think many Protestants here will get on board with that assessment...

I am still chewing on it myself!

Arsenios
 
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Tolworth John

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I can only say what scripture says here

1 John 3 - 6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

its when we don't abide in Christ through faith that we are in the flesh and then we can fall. If we live in the flesh and sin we cannot blame Christ, It is the old man that does not know Christ that is to blame. But if we abide ( remain, continue) in Christ through faith then God knows us and we are in the light and walk in the light. John had already said that if we walk in darkness we do not the truth and if we say we are in the light while we walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth. If for example a man says hes in the light and hateth his brother he is in darkness not in the light. Then Jesus Christ who is eternal life does no longer abide in him in that state. He needs to repent and confess his sin and come back by faith into the light of Christ then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin. This daily walk and examining ourselves is the daily cross we bear. Paul says we are "alway bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also might be made manifest in our mortal bodies.

All we can say to any believer is to continue in the faith and in the grace of God. It is through faith in Jesus Christ that we overcome the world and have victory.


To be practical and relevent, do you sin?

Are you a Christian if you have committed sin?
 
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LoveofTruth

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To be practical and relevent, do you sin?

Are you a Christian if you have committed sin?
To be practical,

, these verses give the answer

1 John 3 - 6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him...8. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”

And to be practicle should we ever tell anyone not to live daily in faith the just shall live by faith

And bring every thought to captivity of Christ yes, every thought

This is the scriptural way of life in Christ

But some are weak in faith and tough they stumble they will hopefully keep abiding in faith and be overcomers through Christ who lives and abides in them as they abide also in him
 
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LoveofTruth

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To be practical and relevent, do you sin?

Are you a Christian if you have committed sin?
One reason why some might see this as unpracticle to daily abide in Christ and sin not is that they want an excuse for sin, they want to ease their conscience when they are convicted and some doctrines have been created to dull their conscience sadly. They want a doctrine that says if it is ok when they sin or gives them a liscence for sin. They don’t want to be in a constant war in their members and some wrongly think this would be legalism to try daily to live in this life.But it is not our own power that works in us through faith but God’s power and the word of His grace. The excellence of the power is if God and not of us.

But we are in a war daily and Jesus said to pick up our cross daily and we are to daily loose our life and always hear about in the bodyvthe dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal body. Our fellowship is in the mystery of Christ.

Another reason some want to fight against the teaching of John is that they simply lovee the world and they love many things more than God.

John said that he wrote that letter that we “sin not”. So obviously in his letter will be tha way to walk in that life. He says plainly if we abide (remain continue) in Christ we sinneth not . Only by faith will Christ abide in our heart because we are trusting in God’s righteousness and not ours only by faith so we enter into the grace of God working in us and the word of His grace will build us up and strengthen us.

Don’t think that I am saying I am any better than any other , I am also convicted by Johns words at times and I am aware of the war daily but thank God His life gives me strength and His Spirit comforts me in my trial and empowers me.

I can say that when I fall or sin there is no peace in my conscience. But as I confess my sin and forsake it in Giod Power I have peace and am cleansed from all unrighteousness.

It’s when we sin and do not run back the God when we harden our heart to the conviction and then we are in danger of departing from God through an evil heart of unbelief (Hebrews 3:12)

But God will give a space to repent .
 
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Tolworth John

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One reason why some might see this as unpracticle to daily abide in Christ and sin not is that they want an excuse for sin, they want to ease their conscience when they are convicted and some doctrines have been created to dull their conscience sadly. They want a doctrine that says if it is ok when they sin or gives them a liscence for sin. They don’t want to be in a constant war in their members and some wrongly think this would be legalism to try daily to live in this life.But it is not our own power that works in us through faith but God’s power and the word of His grace. The excellence of the power is if God and not of us.

But we are in a war daily and Jesus said to pick up our cross daily and we are to daily loose our life and always hear about in the bodyvthe dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal body. Our fellowship is in the mystery of Christ.

Another reason some want to fight against the teaching of John is that they simply lovee the world and they love many things more than God.

John said that he wrote that letter that we “sin not”. So obviously in his letter will be tha way to walk in that life. He says plainly if we abide (remain continue) in Christ we sinneth not . Only by faith will Christ abide in our heart because we are trusting in God’s righteousness and not ours only by faith so we enter into the grace of God working in us and the word of His grace will build us up and strengthen us.

Don’t think that I am saying I am any better than any other , I am also convicted by Johns words at times and I am aware of the war daily but thank God His life gives me strength and His Spirit comforts me in my trial and empowers me.

I can say that when I fall or sin there is no peace in my conscience. But as I confess my sin and forsake it in Giod Power I have peace and am cleansed from all unrighteousness.

It’s when we sin and do not run back the God when we harden our heart to the conviction and then we are in danger of departing from God through an evil heart of unbelief (Hebrews 3:12)

But God will give a space to repent .

Thank you for your honesty. Few who hold to the idea of sinless perfection in this life will admit that they sin.

Your problem is you have destroyed your claim that Christians do not sin.

But you did provide the answer in that Christians who sin repent again and seek fdorgiveness for their sins.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Thank you for your honesty. Few who hold to the idea of sinless perfection in this life will admit that they sin.

Your problem is you have destroyed your claim that Christians do not sin.

But you did provide the answer in that Christians who sin repent again and seek fdorgiveness for their sins.
I did simply say though that if we abide in Christ we sin not. When I walk in the faith and have a clean conscience if I am not aware of any sin ten I sin not and am freed from sin and these verses apply

1 Peter 4 - 1. Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Romans 6 - 18. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. “

Romans 6 - 7. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

1 Corinthians 15 - 34. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. “

1 John 5 - 18. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. “

1 John 3 - 6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”
 
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The Times

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God counts sin, as a vehicle to separate him from his creation. This is directly tied to the Garden and in Romans 6:6 is states that the body of sin, which is our nature as humus, meaning humanity born of Adam, is accounted the original sin in the garden.

So, the sin or not to sin question, is really how we are considered by God, not from a sinless nature, but from the Mosaic blood on the door imputation of the curse of death passing our doors (person). So long as the conditional statement IF......THEN is met as far as staying in the Lamb of God, the curse of death, that is spiritual death, the separation from God is no longer being applied to us by God.

There are three parties in this transaction, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit indwelled believer. So we can never claim to be sinless, so long as the IF.....THEN conditional statement applies.

However Paul and the Hebrews writer tell it that we will have that nature, after the body of sin is finally biological laid to rest and the New eternal body is granted by the almighty judge for those individuals who have stayed their course and have kept the faith onto biological death.

26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.”c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15)

The phrase that God will be all in all is saying that we will have the image of the Heavenly by nature, after we are raised in the incorruptible state, post biological death, at resurrection day. It doesn't mean that we will be like God, oh no, it means that we will then have God's sinless nature as his Sons.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hewbrews 9:28)


The Hebrews writer after saying all men are destined to biologically die once then Judgement, places this without sin or sinless nature state only after we put on the glorified form at resurrection.

In this life, we are still in the spiritual womb and are yet to shed our blood, as far as the Testator needing to die, before the sinless nature can take effect and the eternal inheritance that was hoped for and not yet seen/received to be finally realised in the eternal life to come.

No one can claim a sinless nature, whilst they are tempted daily to the body of sin, the very nature that is tied to the fall, which separated man from God, until the Messiah came to impute his righteous blood on us.
 
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LoveofTruth

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In Ephesians 2 we were (past tense) BY NATURE children of wrath. We no longer have a child of wrath nature if we are in Christ. See also Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11.
Yes,

if
we are in Christ and walk not according to the flesh.

If
we abide in him and

IF
we continue in the grace of God.

If
we faint not,

If
we do not depart from God through and evil heart of unbelief.

If
we fight the good fight of faith,

if
we overcome through Christ,

if
we endure to the end,

if
we take heed,

if
we pick up our cross daily and follow Christ,

if
we continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel.


if...
 
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Arsenios

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In Ephesians 2 we were (past tense) BY NATURE children of wrath. We no longer have a child of wrath nature if we are in Christ. See also Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11.
Are you saying that we no longer have our"old man"??

I sure have mine...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Yes,

if
we are in Christ and walk not according to the flesh.

If
we abide in him and

IF
we continue in the grace of God.

If
we faint not,

If
we do not depart from God through and evil heart of unbelief.

If
we fight the good fight of faith,

if
we overcome through Christ,

if
we endure to the end,

if
we take heed,

if
we pick up our cross daily and follow Christ,

if
we continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel.


if...
Yes, Salvation is one big IF ...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Arsenios, I was just pointing out what the scripture says in Ephesians 2:3.

Interpret it however you like.
Forgive me - I was not trying to offend...

The question has to do with the existential nature of the presence of our "old man" in this fallen life in Christ... For you had written:
We no longer have a child of wrath nature if we are in Christ.
And you cited Ephesians 2:3 , where it is our WALK that is no longer according to wrath, but not our fallen nature... IF we do not HAVE this fallen human 'child of wrath' nature, then there is no struggle to be a Christian, to live in a repentant manner... Yet the Gospel Commandment is: "Be ye repenting..." And Paul points out: "Persevering to the end..."

Did we not inherit Death from Adam? And because of that inheritance of Death from Adam have not all sinned? Is not Christ the only sinless Man? Is that not why we are to be IN Christ Who is IN us? Is not purity of heart accorded to those overcoming of sin? Do we not run the race set before us to the end? And if our old nature is gone, then against whom are we running?

In the Age to Come, you are right - The 'old man' we are mortifying now will be gone - I just do not think he is gone in this fallen life... Here and now, he is brought into obedience so that we walk in newness of Life, and walk not as we did before in the lusts of the flesh, which 2:3 is speaking of, yes?


Arsenios
 
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LoveofTruth

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Yes, Salvation is one big IF ...

Arsenios
Yes, but we can also know that we have eteral life in Christ as we abide in him and we can know we are saved.

Yes we are saved, we are being saved and we shall be saved if we overcome to the end as scripture teaches

1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV
"By which also ye
are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."

1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

Ephesians 2:5 KJV
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


Galatians 2:17 KJV
"But if, while we
seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid."

1 Timothy 2:15 KJV
"Notwithstanding she
shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

Matthew 10:22 KJV
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

1 John 5:13 KJV
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that
ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

John 15:5 KJV
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

Philippians 4:13 KJV
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

John 15:6 KJV

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."



 
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justbyfaith

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@Arsenios,

Where in scripture does it say, Be ye repenting? I think it says simply, REPENT! Also, Ephesians 2:3 says we were by nature children of wrath...which indicates that we no longer have that child of wrath nature, as "were" is in the past tense and indicates it is not a reality any longer. We WERE by nature children of wrath. So we are not children of wrath by nature any more. If you fail to see this I say ahead of time that it reminds me of 2 Corinthians 4:4.
 
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