Does God meet us where we are despite our denomination?

[Albion]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

God meets people ALMOST wherever they are, as you said. Not every denomination meets the minimum standards of the faith.

But then, you cannot hold to a false belief because it is convenient. That is what you would be doing if you remained a Baptist while being convinced that, on some significant doctrines, not optional beliefs, the Baptists are wrong.

 

[misput]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

You got it kid! Just stay on that track and you will be fine. I am so happy for you!

 

[Cis.jd]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

I personally think God doesn't hold beliefs against the person because we are not made ot know everything automatically. so I don't think being in a different denomination is something that God is going to "send you to hell" for.

The fact of the matter is, we can use an academic + scripture analysis to determine what we think is the more "original" religious code or denomination but at the end I think it's completely arrogant for anybody to know 100%. We are all getting our information from others but not directly from him in the end. And there will always be an argument for everything.

Don't worry about the doctrines. What is in the Apostle's creed is the only important code that defines your religion.. Just focus on yourself as a person and how you can do what you can. Worry about today, because tomorrow has it's own time.

 

[Halbhh]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Very good insights also. And, one thought that came to me at one point was that it will often be we are needed where we are at -- if we find an error that some in our local church believe, that's not usually a reason to leave, but instead it is often a reason to stay.

And, if we talk with them about it (while I'd usually be indirect, and get at the most fundamental things instead), to keep in mind first things first, using the rule:

2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

For instance, if one of my brothers or sisters has a bad idea about baptism, I trust God, and simply show them love, and only ask or say indirect things or helpful things, and I'm not being contentious against them. I'm not trying to prove them wrong, but help them see more.

 

[Resha Caner]

So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

Yes. I'd go even further to say he is working in all people's lives, even those who aren't members of a Christian community.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

Yes, that's essentially it, as often the "details" people harp about relate to sanctification rather than justification. But, one can take it too far - denying Jesus' divinity, denying he was a historical person, etc. Sometimes the Gospel is twisted into a purely Social Gospel, moralism, or some such thing.

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

That's a tough call. No church will ever be perfect, so one must learn to live in a fallen world. At the same time, you don't want to enable errant beliefs. Nor do you want to remain in a church that will pull you back into that error or restricts you from growing into your new found understanding.

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

He meets us where we are, but doesn't leave us there. He will encourage you to grow and leave error behind. At some point it becomes too much. I expect a Muslim who responds to God's call will feel a need to leave Islam.

Further, not all sacraments are the same thing. God does indeed impart the gift of Baptism whether the recipient believes it or not. The Eucharist comes with Paul's warnings from 1 Corinthians 11.

 

[TuxAme]

If this were the case, then Jesus certainly wouldn't have spent three years of His life ministering to His people, and the apostles certainly wouldn't have felt the need to wrestle with doctrine if it was ultimately unimportant to our salvation. If we hear His words and reject what He meant in favor of what we want His words to mean, then we bring judgement upon ourselves.

 

[Resha Caner]

If this were the case, then Jesus certainly wouldn't have spent three years of His life ministering to His people, and the apostles certainly wouldn't have felt the need to wrestle with doctrine if it was ultimately unimportant to our salvation. If we hear His words and reject what He meant in favor of what we want His words to mean, then we bring judgement upon ourselves.

The extremes both have their problems. At one end some promote the errant idea you can believe anything as long as you believe it sincerely. At the other end some promote you must have a proper intellectual understanding, and "faith" becomes a dogmatic checklist that negates God's grace.

 

[Blade]

Yes He does but I believe to God theres one body and Christ as the head. You know MANY tents that do divide. Just start talking about that tent over there? See it? That's the WORD OF FIATH tent or might be some other TENT Its not.. do you know follow believe in Jesus Christ? YES? Praise GOD were family PERIOD!

Yes God goes far and above with us but... doubt will stop Him in many areas of our lifes, where He wants to do something show us something but....we don't believe. And God then.. can not force us will not try to convince us.

So when asked.. I am just a follower a believer in Yeshua/Jesus the Christ..

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

I think the important thing to think about is that God does meet us where we are; but he doesn't leave us where he met us. We are all called on a journey in our faith and part of that journey is to seek and follow Christ and that includes seeking the truth. I don't think that when we find the truth we should just ignore it or paint it as unimportant. Maybe your conscience guides you differently and I truly do not mean that in any derogatory way. The Holy Spirit has each of us on a different path. I know godly Baptists that became Catholic, brought their love of Scripture to their new denomination and started Bible studies. Maybe that was God's path for them.

And there have been godly Catholics who became Baptists.

 

[Halbhh]

If this were the case, then Jesus certainly wouldn't have spent three years of His life ministering to His people, and the apostles certainly wouldn't have felt the need to wrestle with doctrine if it was ultimately unimportant to our salvation. If we hear His words and reject what He meant in favor of what we want His words to mean, then we bring judgement upon ourselves.

Yes -- there are some questions that really matter, and very many others that do not matter ultimately. As you know, too often people argue over things that aren't crucial.

But to truly listen to Christ -- indeed that is quite crucial for us, because He said so Himself.

 

[anna ~ grace]

@Mary Meg

God definitely does help, guide, respond to, and care for Christians all over the map. He also wants all of us to be One in His Son. Don't give up searching and seeking. God be with you, friend.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

Oh Yes! God met the woman at the well and she was in NO denomination and living in adultery. As a personal example, I was raised in a Baptist church. That's where I memorized so much Scripture, heard about Hell, and was baptised in water after I believed, prayed and received the Holy Spirit. Since that time, God has led me to various other denominations so that He could deposit more understanding, show me about spiritual gifts, expose false teachers, and learn how to appreciate his other people with differing measures of faith. Now I attend a Presbyterian church. I disagree with infant baptism, but I love the weekly Lord's Supper. The worship is authentic and very skillful, and the teaching always is taken back to the Gospel of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection as our Living Hope. I have not joined as a member because I am already a member of the Church, the Body of Christ and have not felt led to make any additional promises. God has set boundaries on my life and given me total freedom within those boundaries. I am allowed to go to any Church in Indianapolis. He showed me how individual Church congregations are like separate sheep fold, each with a Pastor to look over a particular group of the flock of the Sheep of Jesus Christ.

Jesus says "I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16) At the time, He was speaking about bringing in the Gentiles into the Flock of God, but nowadays, He still does the same thing, bring people from all races, tongues, tribes, and even denominations into His Flock.

 

[MDC]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

If Gods grace is in all denominations in Christendom then doctrine is of no importance. Conflating all denominational theologies for the sake of easing ones conscience is wrong as well. If scripture is our sole authority as it relates to doctrine and practice then a fellowship that believes in the doctrines of grace is where you should be. The doctrines of grace are essential of the gospel of Christ

 

[HTacianas]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

If you think of a heretical group, not any particular group at all, but a heretical group nonetheless. Does God meet that group's members where they are? Some of the ancient gnostics believed in Jesus, and even travelled around and taught others about Jesus, but are condemned as antichrists at 2 John 1:7 and liars at Revelation 2:2.

Does God meet antichrists and liars where they are? That's the question you have in your head. See Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Foxfyre]

double post sorry

 

[Foxfyre]

Ok... so I'm not feeling that great today, so please try to go easy on me?

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

So I don't mean to say that doctrine is unimportant, but maybe the heart of the Gospel, believing in Jesus and on God's grace to be saved, is more important than the details?

So as a Baptist, I'm coming to see that the Early Church had a different view about some things, like baptism and the Lord's Supper. And people ask me, if I'm coming to that conviction, how I can remain a Baptist. But, if I believe that God still saves Baptists, despite not believing in that, and also others who do believe in that, then why can't I remain a Baptist?

Is it possible that God meets us where we are, as long as we believe in Him? That, if baptismal regeneration is important, that He uses it for that purpose whether we believe in that specifically or not? That if the bread and wine really become the Lord's Body and Blood, and if it's important that we have His flesh to eat (John 6:53), then He might do that to feed all Christians, whether they believe in that or not?

In my opinion neither Jesus nor any of the Apostles ordered or sanctioned denominations of Christians. Denominations are purely human inventions to satisfy the preferences of how 'to do' church and various doctrine and dogma that feel right to each.

I look to how Jesus related to people. He didn't judge them by whether they had been baptized or what they had been or even all that much on what they believed. He had the harshest words for those who demanded strict doctrine but did not live according to God's commandments themselves. To everybody else it was pretty much, 'neither do I condemn you' and 'go and sin no more.'

He didn't judge people on what they once were but rather on what they could be. He didn't see their sins. He saw their potential.

Jesus was God with us.

I don't think he gives a diddly squat what denomination we belong to.

 

[Mary Meg]

God meets us in all kinds of wacky ways. He uses broken and imperfect vessels. But I think you'll find that Catholicism is not something that you can accept in part.

You apparently accept little-c "catholicism" in part.

If they are right on the idea that they are the one true church, and if you come to believe that this is the case, then it would increasingly become disobedient not to join that church.

A lot of people here seem to understand "the one true Church" in a lot of different ways.

But I don't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true church. I believe grace can be found in every legitimate church and that there is a diversity of expression in the body of Christ. I don't believe that any church gets it totally right. There are some that are closer to the truth than others, but there is no "one true church".

That is a view I can agree with. I think you would say, though, that the "best views" are Reformed Protestant views, and that if you come to believe them, it would be disobedient or dishonest not to join a Reformed church?

If you believe as I do, then you may comfortably remain a baptist and even comfortably disagree with a number of baptist doctrines. But if you accept the Roman system, Rome is the only legitimate option for you.

I don't really know why you call it a "system." Is "Reformed" also a "system"?

 

[Mary Meg]

Without factions, you have no league.

But with factions, you have no unity. Paul tells us, "Let there be no divisions among you" (1 Corinthians 1:10).

 

[DeepWater]

I have a theory. I see so many examples of God's grace in different denominations... godly grandparents and great-grandparents in my own Baptist family, saints I admire in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, learned and devoted people I read about among Lutherans, Calvinists, etc., and different Protestant denominations here in the U.S. So it seems to me that God is working in all these people's lives, despite having some differences of opinion.

MM,

I hope you are feeling better.

Let me give you a thought.. = Men create denominations, God Creates Christians.
See, there will be no denominations in Heaven, or in the New Jerusalem, or in Israel during the Reign of Yeshua.

In the early Church, there were no denominations, there were only believers who assembled with other believers, (born again) sometimes in a house, sometimes in a group on the beach, etc.

Also, there will come a day when you, and me, and all readers here, will ether be Raptured, or we die.
Either way, we will stand face to face with Yeshua, and He will gently and lovingly require some answers, and one of the questions, according to the NT< is ...> """""what have you done in my BODY", or another way to think of it is...."with the Light of the Truth of WHO I AM, what have you done with this revelation, all your lifetime"?
In other words, after you were born again, did you spend your TIME, invested in Me, and my Father "". ??
MM, your life is your TIME, and how you spend your time is how you spent your life.
Satan's #1 strategy is to get you to waste your time, as this is getting you to waste your life.

I can assure you that Jesus is not really interested in any Church Building, no matter the cost or the size.
He is only interested in His Church which, is each of us.

Now, for the benefit of any reader here who is trying to stay focused on the Lord and on living a lifestyle that would please God.
Here is something you can consider.
Each day, remind yourself, that you will stand before Jesus after you die//raptured, and let this knowledge help you to understand WHAT to focus on in your life, as this realization has the sobering effect of showing you things in your life that really dont matter, that you are giving too much priority.
Also.....
God created your life for you to enjoy. God created Laughter. God created intimacy with your mate.
God created not only beauty, but created humans with the unique ability to perceive beauty, as this is what GOD can do.. "we are made in His image".
God is a creator, and we are most happy when we create... whatever that is.....
Jesus, is God, and Jesus enjoyed himself when He was here., and we should also.
Just remember that God as Christ on the Cross, both created you and saved you for Himself... You are "blood bought", and belong to God.... So, enjoy your life, live your life wide open.. Embrace challenges.
Use failure as a teacher and not as a regret. Use your love to heal. yet, always let who you are "in Christ", be the filter that guides your behavior.
God gave us richly all things to enjoy, except for sin.
All things in moderation, except for sin.

Blessings,


dw

 

[FireDragon76]

If Gods grace is in all denominations in Christendom then doctrine is of no importance. Conflating all denominational theologies for the sake of easing ones conscience is wrong as well. If scripture is our sole authority as it relates to doctrine and practice then a fellowship that believes in the doctrines of grace is where you should be. The doctrines of grace are essential of the gospel of Christ

God is bigger than human language can express. That doesn't mean doctrine isn't important (after all, that's why I'm Lutheran instead of Episcopalian), but there's no reason to box God in by Aristotilian logical categories like that, in my estimation.