Does God Love Everyone?

[sonofvu]

What is a sin and what sin does a 1 year old does deserving death?
God hates some infants before they are born so how have the unborn sined?

Rom 5:12 establishes original sin. Since Adam is our federal head, when he sinned it was as if we sinned. To put it another way, if we could have taken Adam's place we would have sinned in the same manner.

 

[Reformationist]

God's love is defined for us , including in it's definition in 1 cor 13 is longsuffering , kindness etc ,

Anything else? Like perhaps that it "never fails."

So, what is it that the "love" of God for those He never redeems doesn't fail to do?

incidenally , the Biblical definition for love in 1 Cor 13 doesn't contain the idea of salvation , just a hint !

This is an argument that is far beneath you. An everlasting loving relationship with God is most certainly implicit.

to suggest that God's love is restricted to salvation is i think a mistake , for were that concept true , God would cease loving you the moment you are saved !

I am not aware that anyone has made the claim that God's love is limited to salvation. Rather, the point being made is that God's love is exclusive to His elect.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

hi bro , i know we have debated this before , my only request to all here is that we all exhibit God's love toward each other especially in a thread about God's love , amen.

I agree.

here's my answer ,

Now why , what purpose is this revelation of God's love , but to encourage sinners everywhere to repent and be saved ...... Romans 2

So, being that it is the love of a sovereign God that we are debating, is it simply your contention that His encouragement to repent and be saved falls on deaf ears and, despite their rejection, it should be considered "love?" Is it not this "love" from an Almighty God that ensures the salvation of all who are saved? How then does "love" from God not translate into such a thing for those who reject it?

Rom.2

[1] Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
[2] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
[3] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[4] Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11] For there is no respect of persons with God.



God's wrath is kindled against a rejection of LOVE not a rejection of hate.

So our position should be that God purposes His love to increase the guilt of those He has not elected to save, the same people who already stand condmened on their own merits? Seriously?? That's your contention?

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

I guess the difficulty for us resides in our fallen nature. We somehow want to apologize for God, rationalizing that God would never create something for the purpose of shewing His perfect wrath. We forget that God is Holy and His ways are not our ways. The fact of the matter is, who are we (corrupt, sinful, made of dust, whose breath is in his nostrils...man) to say what God does is wrong. It's his creation and He has the perfect right to "fit" someone for destruction, as He pleases.
Fitting someone for destruction (satan is a good example) is NOT an act of love, no matter how you slice it. A step in the right direction would be to realize that those fitted for destruction, as well as the elect in and of themselves, are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT GUILTY and we all deserve hell, even the ones "fitted" for such, by God.
God's pity, longsuffering, kindness, etc. etc. towards those fitted for destruction, only worsen their own guilt while shewing forth God's perfect and JUST wrath against such.

I agree completely. Nicely said.

God bless

 

[cygnusx1]

Anything else? Like perhaps that it "never fails."

love has no end verses the act of loving some being temporary


context ; love never fails , prophecy tongues etc have a time limit , love never ends , ie, never fails .



8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


whereas loving someone may certainly have a limit!

read of king Saul.

not everyone loved is loved with an "everlasting love" .

So, what is it that the "love" of God for those He never redeems doesn't fail to do?

it doesn't fail to grant them many blessings ; Mat 5

This is an argument that is far beneath you. An everlasting loving relationship with God is most certainly implicit.

not at all , see above for context.

I am not aware that anyone has made the claim that God's love is limited to salvation. Rather, the point being made is that God's love is exclusive to His elect.

God bless

so why ask this question ;


"So, being that it is the love of a sovereign God that we are debating, is it simply your contention that His encouragement to repent and be saved falls on deaf ears and, despite their rejection, it should be considered "love?" Is it not this "love" from an Almighty God that ensures the salvation of all who are saved? How then does "love" from God not translate into such a thing for those who reject it? "

if the love of God is not always salvivic then denying it to all but the elect is on what basis ?

 

[Elderone]

What is a sin and what sin does a 1 year old does deserving death?
God hates some infants before they are born so how have the unborn sined?

As sunofvu stated, Adam was the federal head of the human race and and when he sinned all his decendants were considered to have sinned.

To read further on the federal headship go here: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/federal.htm

 

[smellynerfherder]

God does love everyone! even those he is punishing!

Psalm 89:30-33
"If my sons forsake my law
and do not follow my statutes,
If they violate my decrees
and fail to keep my commands,
I will punish their sin with the rod,
their inquity with flogging;
but I will never take my love from him,
nor will I ever betray my faithfulness."

God may punish us, but He never, ever stops loving us, and is always faithful in His promise that we can be forgiven, if we ask.

 

[cygnusx1]

John Calvin


"So let us learn (following what I have already mentioned) to know in everything and by everything the inestimable goodness of our God. For as He declared His love toward mankind when He spared not His Only Son but delivered Him to death for sinners, also He declares a love which He bears especially toward us when by His Holy Spirit He touches us by the knowledge of our sins and He makes us wail and draws us to Himself with repentance." Sermons on the Deity of Christ, Sermon 6: The Fourth Sermon on the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ, p 108. (Old Paths Publ.,)

 

[cygnusx1]

JOHN CALVIN


"True it is that God giveth oftentimes some sign of his love to all men in general: but yet is all Adam's offspring cut off from him, till we be grafted in again by Jesus Christ. Therefore there is one kind of love which God beareth towards all men, for that he hath created them after his own image, in which respect he maketh the Sun to shine upon all men, nourishing them and having a care of their life. But all this is nothing, in respect of the special goodness which he keepeth in store for his chosen, and for those that are of his flock: howbeit not for any worthiness which he findeth in them, but for because it pleaseth him to accept them for his own." From Calvin's Sermons on Galatians, Sermon Two, 1:3-5.

 

[cygnusx1]

Hi Ref!
I would say His providence toward the wicked is evidence of :
Rom9:22: What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Enduring, not just with patience, but with grace.
In watering the wheat, the tares get a share.

ahhhhhh , that went down better than champagne !!!


the idea of gritted teeth patience and longsuffering is comical

 

[UMP]

God does love everyone! even those he is punishing!

Psalm 89:30-33
"If my sons forsake my law
and do not follow my statutes,
If they violate my decrees
and fail to keep my commands,
I will punish their sin with the rod,
their inquity with flogging;
but I will never take my love from him,
nor will I ever betray my faithfulness."

God may punish us, but He never, ever stops loving us, and is always faithful in His promise that we can be forgiven, if we ask.

Not so.
It depends if you are a "son" or a "bastard".
The key in Psalms 89 as it is also in Hebrews 12 is the word "son". Not all are "sons", some are "bastards" which are not chastised i.e., loved like a son.

Hebrews 12:
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

p.s. When Paul says "all are partakers", he means all of God's "sons", not all humanity without exception. If Paul meant to say all without exception, the added phrase "then are ye bastards and not sons" would have been useless and unnecessary, without meaning.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Not so.
It depends if you are a "son" or a "bastard".
The key in Psalms 89 as it is also in Hebrews 12 is the word "son". Not all are "sons", some are "bastards" which are not chastised i.e., loved like a son.

Hebrews 12:
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

p.s. When Paul says "all are partakers", he means all of God's "sons", not all humanity without exception. If Paul meant to say all without exception, the added phrase "then are ye bastards and not sons" would have been useless and unnecessary, without meaning.

What a bunch of crock. If bastards then children of the devil.

 

[mlqurgw]

Not so.
It depends if you are a "son" or a "bastard".
The key in Psalms 89 as it is also in Hebrews 12 is the word "son". Not all are "sons", some are "bastards" which are not chastised i.e., loved like a son.

Hebrews 12:
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

p.s. When Paul says "all are partakers", he means all of God's "sons", not all humanity without exception. If Paul meant to say all without exception, the added phrase "then are ye bastards and not sons" would have been useless and unnecessary, without meaning.

Here is an eye opening message on that passage. It will cause you to undestand it in a new way:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1020614528

 

[UMP]

If bastards then children of the devil.

Such we would all be, but for the work of God, toward His sheep.

Ephesians 2:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

 

[UMP]

Here is an eye opening message on that passage. It will cause you to undestand it in a new way:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1020614528

Is it somewhere in written form?

 

[BBAS 64]

What a bunch of crock. If bastards then children of the devil.

Good day, Evangelica

Crook???

as in pot.

Bastarads could be children of the devil....

1Jo 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

The devil has his own children.....

In Him,

Bill

 

[Iosias]

God does love everyone! even those he is punishing!

I would have to disagree with you my friend

Psalm 92:7 "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

You may wish to look at Prosperous Wicked and Plagued Saints.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Good day, Evangelica

Crook???

as in pot.

Bastarads could be children of the devil....

1Jo 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

The devil has his own children.....

In Him,

Bill

Yes as in crockpot, Jesus was a bastard, btw.

 

[Reformationist]

love has no end verses the act of loving some being temporary

context ; love never fails , prophecy tongues etc have a time limit , love never ends , ie, never fails .

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


whereas loving someone may certainly have a limit!

read of king Saul.

not everyone loved is loved with an "everlasting love" .

Let me get this straight. It is your position that God loves some people with an everlasting love and others with a temporary love? Please tell me that I totally misunderstood your point.

it doesn't fail to grant them many blessings ; Mat 5

LOL! Seriously? Are you just playing the devil's advocate or do you actually believe that the love of an Almighty God is purposed simply to bless someone He never intended to gather unto Himself?

so why ask this question ;

"So, being that it is the love of a sovereign God that we are debating, is it simply your contention that His encouragement to repent and be saved falls on deaf ears and, despite their rejection, it should be considered "love?" Is it not this "love" from an Almighty God that ensures the salvation of all who are saved? How then does "love" from God not translate into such a thing for those who reject it? "

if the love of God is not always salvivic then denying it to all but the elect is on what basis ?

What I'm saying, cyg, is that the love of God as expressed in the Bible isn't revealed as some nonsensical temporary love that is purposed only to "grant them many blessings." The love of God has, at its center, His desire and intent to gather unto Himself the objects of His love, for time everlasting.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

God does love everyone! even those he is punishing!

Psalm 89:30-33
"If my sons forsake my law
and do not follow my statutes,
If they violate my decrees
and fail to keep my commands,
I will punish their sin with the rod,
their inquity with flogging;
but I will never take my love from him,
nor will I ever betray my faithfulness."

God may punish us, but He never, ever stops loving us, and is always faithful in His promise that we can be forgiven, if we ask.

I'm not sure if you're a reformed Christian but this is not reformed doctrine so, if you're not reformed but have something to add, you should offer your opinion in a more interrogatory manner. Second, the passage you cite speaks of God's everlasting love and fidelity towards those who are His sons. Not all are His sons so His faithfulness in love does not apply to those that are not His. Lastly, the basis for our being forgiven isn't "if we ask" nor is asking the catalyst or mediating factor in whether we are forgiven. We are forgiven solely because Christ has vicariously atoned for the iniquity of His elect and the merit for His atonement has been imputed to those upon whom God has graciously chosen to extend His grace. The fact that you are commanded to ask for forgiveness and the fact that you may very well obey and do so is immaterial in why or how you are forgiven. It is simply the proper response to the regenerative and sanctifying grace of God.

God bless