Does God love all or some?

[SkyWriting]

You rob God of his glory and give it to sinners if they were lovable in themselves. You need to learn about his hatred as well as his love.

Is this a quote from Jesus? I don't THINK so......

 

[Dave L]

Is this a quote from Jesus? I don't THINK so......

THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM. ”
Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU. ”
Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. ”
Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD. ”
Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. ”
(In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)
Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it , HE ABHORRED THEM... ”
Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter ’s vessel. ”
Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”
Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors. ”
Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH. ”
Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness... ”
Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER. ”
Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL. ”
Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE. ”

Lots more but this should do.

 

[Dave L]

I can't find that passage either. I looked:

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

This only confirms what I'm saying.

 

[SkyWriting]

This only confirms what I'm saying.

I agree.

 

[SkyWriting]

THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM. ”
Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU. ”
Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. ”
Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD. ”
Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. ”
(In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)
Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it , HE ABHORRED THEM... ”
Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter ’s vessel. ”
Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”
Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors. ”
Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH. ”
Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness... ”
Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER. ”
Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL. ”
Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE. ”

Lots more but this should do.

Being Born again, the OT law has vanished.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

 

[SkyWriting]

This only confirms what I'm saying.

That the old Testament is obsolete.

 

[Dave L]

Being Born again, the OT law is vanished.

It's now a matter of thought that depicts sin. Nobody has sinless thoughts, even the born-again.

 

[Dave L]

That the old Testament is obsolete.

But, it shows how much God hates sinners (all) and he does not change. Do you want to think you had a special quality that caused God to save you?

 

[SkyWriting]

It's now a matter of thought that depicts sin. Nobody has sinless thoughts, even the born-again.

Therefore man has not the authority or ability to identify sin for others. Our thoughts are not pure or informed enough to even discern sin in others.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

 

[SkyWriting]

But, it shows how much God hates sinners (all) and he does not change.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Dave L]

Therefore man has not the authority or ability to identify sin for others. Our thoughts are not pure or informed enough to even discern sin in others.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Are you suggesting you are not totally depraved from birth? A cut above the rest? And share in God's glory because of that?

 

[Dave L]

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Your problem is, you don't know how much more demanding the New Covenant is than the Old.

 

[Strong in Him]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

All.
God created all people in his image. Why would he choose to love only some of those he created?
I like Anders Nygren's quotes.

 

[Strong in Him]

If God did elect some and NOT elect others, then it seems that he does NOT love all.

I don't believe that God created ALL in his image and from his love, and then decided to "elect" only a few to know that love.

 

[Neogaia777]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

God the Father loves all, and always does/did... God the Father always does/did anyway... The sinner and the saint, the righteous and the unrighteous, the holy and the unholy...

But, that does not mean all go to Heaven to be with Him forever though...

And that is because some of us, some programs, just were not made for that kind of existence, but only more of these kinds of existences that exist right now only, etc, and that both is, and does both forever stand, "forever", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM. ”
Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU. ”
Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. ”
Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD. ”
Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. ”
(In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)
Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it , HE ABHORRED THEM... ”
Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter ’s vessel. ”
Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”
Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors. ”
Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH. ”
Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness... ”
Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER. ”
Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL. ”
Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE. ”

Lots more but this should do.

God the Holy Spirit used to feel this way to and toward and about all sinners, etc, that is, until Jesus came that is, (or it might also be that He (God the Holy Spirit, God in the OT) had this realization sometime before Jesus came also, etc) (but and/or anyway) when He (God the Spirit, God in the OT) realized that all were sinners, and that there were none righteous, and/or that also could not ever be made righteous ever by any of the OT, OC ways, and that all were in need of a whole new program, or completely new way of being loved and/or saved or redeemed, etc, and were all in need of a Savior, or "kinsman redeemer", etc, or someone who was a man who could save them, etc...

Then of course, Jesus came, etc...

And the rest is history, as they say, etc... at least, leading up until right now anyway, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

God the Holy Spirit used to feel this way to and toward and about all sinners, etc, that is, until Jesus came that is, (or it might also be that He (God the Holy Spirit, God in the OT) had this realization sometime before Jesus came also, etc) (but and/or anyway) when He (God the Spirit, God in the OT) realized that all were sinners, and that there were none righteous, and/or that also could not ever be made righteous ever by any of the OT, OC ways, and that all were in need of a whole new program, or completely new way of being loved and/or saved or redeemed, etc, and were all in need of a Savior, or "kinsman redeemer", etc, or someone who was a man who could save them, etc...

Then of course, Jesus came, etc...

And the rest is history, as they say, etc... at least, leading up until right now anyway, etc...

God Bless!

What will happen now is that Jesus will come back from where He went for a while to be with the Father, and will rejoin with Holy Spirit who has always been here, and will set up His/Their rule and reign and Kingdom for the time period of the last age (day) of this entire creation, until the final end of this entire creation (end of day 7), when all be resurrected and/or all brought back together again, then judged, in a/the final and last judgement for this entire creation (age), which will then seal and decide each individual ones (eternal) fate once and for all, for all who are belonging to and are coming from this entire creation (age), (this one, etc), and then, that one will done away with, and a whole brand new one will be made or started and/or created and will begin all over again, etc, but with some from here getting to take part in it, (that next one), (being created and/or made, etc), until, eventually, we catch back up in that new one to where we are now in this one again, etc, or should I say all over again, etc, "eventually" anyway, etc, then the same thing(s) happen over again, "eventually", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What will happen now is that Jesus will come back from where He went for a while to be with the Father, and will rejoin with Holy Spirit who has always been here, and will set up His/Their rule and reign and Kingdom for the time period of the last age (day) of this entire creation, until the final end of this entire creation (end of day 7), when all be resurrected and/or all brought back together again, then judged, in a/the final and last judgement for this entire creation (age), which will then seal and decide each individual ones (eternal) fate once and for all, for all who are belonging to and are coming from this entire creation (age), (this one, etc), and then, that one will done away with, and a whole brand new one will be made or started and/or created and will begin all over again, etc, but with some from here getting to take part in it, (that next one), (being created and/or made, etc), until, eventually, we catch back up in that new one to where we are now in this one again, etc, or should I say all over again, etc, "eventually" anyway, etc, then the same thing(s) happen over again, "eventually", etc...

God Bless!

Oh and those others that I talked about, in post #95, who were not made for Heaven, but only more of this, and that "that" was "forever", etc...?

Anyway, they are brought back again, sometime during that next new creation when all begins over again, but only to live the kind of life they lived previously, or in creations prior to that, but they of course, have no conscious knowledge of this ever, etc, nor that they either ever died, or were ever asleep, etc, but they are brought back sometime during that or those times, etc, and that is forever for them, etc...

Anyway, just thought I'd close that little loophole...

God Bless!

 

[LaSorcia]

This is really helpful because you bring out the relational aspect of love. Well, can love exist without relationship?

I thought about this a lot when I was younger. I wondered how we could be commanded to love God and questioned how I could love someone I didn't really know. That was an epiphany for me, and since then I've sought to know God better in order to fulfill that commandment. I am convinced that to know God (correctly) is to love Him.

 

[fhansen]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

Some might say that God simply loves some and not others arbitrarily, and has the right to do so. But in the big picture all people are God’s handiwork and everything He creates is inherently good, because He’s sheer goodness itself. He loves man lavishly, with an unconditional love, then leaves it up to us to set conditions on that love, or not, on whether or not we’ll respond in kind IOW.