Does God love all or some?

[public hermit]

Us churchgoers "have" to love one another, though we don't always like each other.

I say this to address the way we hate each other by claiming we love each other.
Since we are Christians we say we love each other, but don't particularly like one another.

Personally, I prefer hatred to indifference. I think indifference is worse than hatred.

Yes, that does make sense. My bad for forgetting. Which is the greater virtue, to seek what is good for all (i.e. love) or to like the unlikable on top of all that? Yeah, you're right. God doesn't just love us, but likes us. That's a really fine, but helpful, point.

 

[public hermit]

John 3:16 says God loved "the world" . . . not only certain people in the world.

Plus, 1 John 2:2 says Jesus is the propitiation for not only our sins but for the whole world.

But > there are people who do not benefit from God's love, the way they could. This has to do with each person's character, and if each one is obeying how God would do him or her His own good.

It can be like this > a father has two sons whom he loves equally. But one son runs off into the swamp and is getting bitten by mosquitos, and infected by diseases . . . while the other son, equally loved, stays with Daddy and enjoys all the benefits and intimacy of Dad's love.

This is really helpful because you bring out the relational aspect of love. Well, can love exist without relationship? What I hear you saying is mutual love is not guaranteed.

 

[com7fy8]

This is really helpful because you bring out the relational aspect of love. Well, can love exist without relationship? What I hear you saying is mutual love is not guaranteed.

This is good to evaluate. Can you have love, can you love . . . while another is not relating lovingly with you?

You can, but the other person is missing out on how you could be sharing.

Even if someone does not love you, still you can love that person, including by being ready for a mutual relationship. And even if ones refuse this with you, still you are ready for love . . . for when you do discover others who also are ready

With God, our readiness for mutual love does not go to waste; He provides us with ones who share with us.

 

[PaulCyp1]

I'm not familiar with Nigren, however he is 100% correct. God loves all His human children, perfectly and therefore equally, even those who ignore Him or hate Him. Is this surprising? Even human parents, who are imperfect, love their children unconditionally. Would God, Who is perfect, do less?

 

[Noxot]

origen said something like: the father gives us our existence, the son gives us our reason/mind, and the holy spirit makes us holy and good. we are incomplete when not "baptized" in the name of all three. satan is a type of being that exist and has a mind but he is not good most of the time though I think you can even find traces of satans goodness when he accuses job. it feels like remnants of a good zeal for God.

I think people tend to have too static a view of the nature of beings. I believe paul to have been an angel born as a human to assist Christ and yet he became shut off and somewhat confused until Jesus removed his blinders... blinders that he accumulated by his experience in the world and the company he kept.

paul was an elect because of what pauls spirit is. the elect are by their nature closer to God in that they love God back and are in Gods image. they are closer to the divine ideal that God had of them. the original cause of our existence is the elect one that God awaits all to be and in some ways that is the only one that God loves because they have an everlasting existence. God hates the evil corrupted fallen nature because it hurts us.

 

[public hermit]

I'll add that I think the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is intended to help us reflect God's love. God's love is not motivated by the beloved, but comes from "within" God's own self, so to speak.

The Spirit dwells within us to enable us to love from a place that is not bound by the particulars, but free to love all. That is, we seek to bring about what is truly good for all.

"To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." 1 Corinthians 12:7

 

[public hermit]

I think you can even find traces of satans goodness when he accuses job. it feels like remnants of a good zeal for God.

That an interesting observation.

I think people tend to have too static a view of the nature of beings. I believe paul to have been an angel born as a human to assist Christ and yet he became shut off and somewhat confused until Jesus removed his blinders... blinders that he accumulated by his experience in the world and the company he kept

Would you say election is not so much to salvation, as it is a vocation to promote salvation, e.g. Paul? That might be way off from what you're ssying, but I've heard something to that effect. One is elected to a calling, not salvation, per se.

 

[Noxot]

Would you say election is not so much to salvation, as it is a vocation to promote salvation, e.g. Paul? That might be way off from what you're ssying, but I've heard something to that effect. One is elected to a calling, not salvation, per se.

I think election is both a state of being and a destiny of all. salvation does not mean anything to me if it is cut off from a persons state of being but I think Christians tend to have too narrow an understanding of what salvation is. those who love know and confess God. I think we tend to have too narrow a understanding of what love is if in fact love is the divine spark in a person.

because of the nature of human bodies God has to show some kind of merit/judgment/favor in regards to the persons preexisting nature/spirit though this is done in Gods infinite wisdom and not in simplistic human lines of reason which are often very partial judgments of why someone is how they are. such an example of complexity in the gospel is why a particular man was born blind. another example is how a guy who does not know if God is or not but does mighty acts to benefit the world. elon musk seems to be such. I can tell that what he wants to do is bless humanity.

the elect dwell in the highest heaven. they have a promised birthright and unlike esau they do not trade it for "one meal" or a "garden of cucumbers" which is a cause of why he is hated. this is contrasted with Jesus saying we shall have the "fullness of life" and that NT saying "God wills joy for us". esau neglected his divine birthright. esau means red. adam means red. the red dragon falls and hates Christ and his own. it's a pattern. the elder son is the flesh. the younger is Christ in you the hope of glory.

the elect don't have a vocation so much as they simply bless others due to them being excellent. I see election as a superior element in people. you could even say that great musicians and geniuses are elect in some way.

 

[Jaxxi]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

This means that He loved everyone enough to give us all the same chance at Everlasting life if we should decide that we want it and will do God's will in hopes of receiving it. The Lord is no respecter of persons.

The only ones God did not love are the Nephilim because God did not create the Nephilim but were the reason for the flood.

 

[DamianWarS]

He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation.

In an unmotivated love vacuum how are biblical characters chosen over others? some even told they are "highly favored"

 

[John Mullally]

Lets ask the cannonized experts:

Jesus says that God loves all:

John 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.​

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.​

Paul agrees:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

2 Corinthians 10:5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
​

Peter agrees:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.​

Here Peter says that Christ died even for the false prophets, but due to their rebellion it is of no value for them.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
​

John also agrees that God loves all:

1 John2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
​

 

[Cormack]

God loves absolutely everyone without exception. The doctrine of Gods love only becomes a “difficult” doctrine when there’s an extra biblical philosophical rationale being used to harmonise the “hate” verses, many of which we read in wisdom books (e.g. proverbs) and musical books (e.g. psalms.)

Comparatively, hate verses and exclusionary verses standing back to back with the biblical material on Gods universal love and provision for everyone, the universality of Gods love overwhelms the minor set of verses that appear to teach to the contrary.

Gods love is so unfailing that He loved Israel “though they turn to other gods.”

Hosea 3

The Lord said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.
​

If we must harmonise, it’s the people who believe in the universality of Gods love who have much less work to do.

 

[John Mullally]

Some, few to be exact: He hates most.

Sola Scriptura please. Jesus did say that "God so loved the World that He gave".

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

2 Corinthians 10;3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
​

 

[Dave L]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

God hates all sinners and their sins. But because he is Love by nature, he set his love on many sinners and suffered their penalty for them in Christ on the cross. Thereby treating them as though they never sinned.

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you think we love God by loving others? I read something the other day that said the two are not equivalent. God is not others, and therefore loving others is not equivalent to loving God.

We should check then:

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Matthew 7
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure, you use it will be measured to you.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Luke 6:32-42 ESV / 50 helpful votes
“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. ...

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

1 Peter 3:9
Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

 

[SkyWriting]

God hates all sinners and their sins.

I guess not. Sorry:

ROMANS 5:6-8 NKJ
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

JOHN 15:13 NKJ
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 Timothy 1:15
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost

 

[Dave L]

I guess not. Sorry:

ROMANS 5:6-8 NKJ
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

JOHN 15:13 NKJ
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 Timothy 1:15
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost

If God loves sinners, they share in his glory. They have value. If God hates sinners, and he saves them, he receives full glory.

 

[SkyWriting]

If God loves sinners, they share in his glory. They have value. If God hates sinners, and he saves them, he receives full glory.

I can't find that passage. I tried:

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,

1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.

1 John 4:16
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

 

[Dave L]

I can't find that passage. I tried:

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,

1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.

1 John 4:16
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

You rob God of his glory and give it to sinners if they were lovable in themselves. You need to learn about his hatred as well as his love.

 

[SkyWriting]

You rob God of his glory and give it to sinners if they were lovable in themselves. You need to learn about his hatred as well as his love.

I can't find that passage either. I looked:

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,