Does God love all or some?

[LaSorcia]

I don't think so, but as you pointed out it might seem so to them.

"To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure. Their very minds and consciences are corrupted." Titus 1:15

Is there something wrong with God's love that some cannot perceive it?

 

[public hermit]

Is there something wrong with God's love that some cannot perceive it?

I do think it's difficult to perceive at times. This world has so much struggle, sorrow, and suffering. But there is something about God who enters into that sorrow and suffering that shows a love that cannot be revealed in any other way. No greater love can one have than to lay down one's life for one's friends. When Jesus endures our experience, he is truly "God with us." But, if someone refuses to accept that showing of love, what can be done? I don't know. God seems very much removed and cold, otherwise.

 

[St_Worm2]

Does he love unrepentant sinners a little less, maybe?

How much we "like" our children may vary in the moment (on the basis of what they are doing/saying or are failing to do), but do we really choose to "love" them on that basis, IOW, as "human doings" rather than "human beings"?

Do we not (instead) "love" our children because of who they are, rather than on the basis of what they've done or are doing (or are failing to do)?

Wouldn't the same be true of our heavenly Father's "love" for us?

Thanks!

--David

 

[LaSorcia]

I do think it's difficult to perceive at times. This world has so much struggle, sorrow, and suffering. But there is something about God who enters into that sorrow and suffering that shows a love that cannot be revealed in any other way. No greater love can one have than to lay down one's life for one's friends. When Jesus endures our experience, he is truly "God with us." But, if someone refuses to accept that showing of love, what can be done? I don't know. God seems very much removed and cold, otherwise.

Is there any way to ‘prove’ that God loves everyone? Or to disprove it? What role might the church play in the revelation of the love of God? Does our experience of human love color our perception of the love of God?

 

[public hermit]

Does our experience of human love color our perception of the love of God?

I think you're hitting the nail on the head, especially as concerns the church. What does it mean to say, "They will know you're my disciples by your love"? If he reflects the love of the Father, then what is our role as disciples?

 

[LaSorcia]

I think you're hitting the nail on the head, especially as concerns the church. What does it mean to say, "They will know you're my disciples by your love"? If he reflects the love of the Father, then what is our role as disciples?

I think the church sometimes sees itself as the beloved of God more than seeing itself as the body of Christ, God’s tangible outreach of love to the world.

 

[Mark Quayle]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

So would you then assume he loves Satan and his demons too? Ok, yes, that is a smart-aleck question, but I ask it to make a point. What you say in your first two paragraph implies that, of himself, out of himself, he has a particular love for some --those he has chosen as a "new creation", the Church, the Bride of Christ.

 

[public hermit]

So would you then assume he loves Satan and his demons too? Ok, yes, that is a smart-aleck question, but I ask it to make a point. What you say in your first two paragraph implies that, of himself, out of himself, he has a particular love for some --those he has chosen as a "new creation", the Church, the Bride of Christ.

No, I think that's a great point to bring up. What is the loving thing for God to do with that which persists in evil? Evil, by nature is destructive. God is good, and good creates and flourishes. The good is constructive and leads to life. At some point something has to give way, because the good and that which seeks to destroy it are mutually exclusive. It's not God's love that changes and varies, it's the creature who participates to a greater or lesser degree in what is good and endures forever. Can love make destruction last forever? Impossible. I don't know the end of Satan, but God loves Satan in so far as Satan is a creature of God. It's just that Satan doesn't love God.

 

[LaSorcia]

So would you then assume he loves Satan and his demons too? Ok, yes, that is a smart-aleck question, but I ask it to make a point. What you say in your first two paragraph implies that, of himself, out of himself, he has a particular love for some --those he has chosen as a "new creation", the Church, the Bride of Christ.

No, I think that's a great point to bring up. What is the loving thing for God to do with that which persists in evil? Evil, by nature is destructive. God is good, and good creates and flourishes. The good is constructive and leads to life. At some point something has to give way, because the good and that which seeks to destroy it are mutually exclusive. It's not God's love that changes and varies, it's the creature who participates to a greater or lesser degree in what is good and endures forever. Can love make destruction last forever? Impossible. I don't know the end of Satan, but God loves Satan in so far as Satan is a creature of God. It's just that Satan doesn't love God.

I could be wrong, but I have wondered if God might be heartbroken that such a magnificent creation of his turned away from him.

 

[Saint Steven]

I could be wrong, but I have wondered if God might be heartbroken that such a magnificent creation of his turned away from him.

Yes, the omniscient one didn't see that coming. - lol

 

[LaSorcia]

Yes, the omniscient one didn't see that coming. - lol

So, are you saying he made broken creatures on purpose? Does this make God feel superior to us?

 

[public hermit]

I could be wrong, but I have wondered if God might be heartbroken that such a magnificent creation of his turned away from him.

I think (and this just occurred to me, so...) It is God's love for Satan that allows Satan to persist in existence. God created Satan and gave this creature significant freedom (hence, he is "magnificent "). All that God creates is good, in so far as it is a creature.

I think of Dante's hell where Satan is locked in a frozen environment, unable to act on freedom, but persisting as a created being. Satan can't act out his evil intentions (well, I think he's eating folks in Dante, but I'm thinking in terms of a metaphor). What causes Satan to exist even when bound? God's love.

It's an image of what persists when all that is left is existence, sans the goodness of flourishing life.

 

[LaSorcia]

I think of Dante's hell where Satan is locked in a frozen environment, unable to act on freedom, but persisting as a created being. Satan can't act out his evil intentions

That truly sounds like hell, doesn't it? Having sentience but completely unable to act in any way.

 

[Noxot]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

I think God can love in more than one way. one-sided love is incomplete which I think is one of the meanings of the cross. it is nice to be loved by God when we are in error, evil, weak and blind. it is nice to be loved by God in that I am an actual person that God wanted to love which is why I exist.

if God did not want to love me I would not be me. but he called and I answered, came into existence. if there was not a desire to love then why would I be summoned forth into reality? so I can't find anything wrong with personalism since even God is said to be 3 divine persons. we are all born of the love of the Trinity. God could have been as he was before my birth and yet I was born.

but it is important to fight against the spirit that says "i'm good, they bad", which is a tricky evil spirit that has done much damage for a long time.

 

[Saint Steven]

So, are you saying he made broken creatures on purpose? Does this make God feel superior to us?

He doesn't need to do anything to feel superior to us. He is superior by nature.

I'm saying he has done everything by plan. He is neither surprised, nor disappointed.
Our brokenness is part of his magnificent creation. Fortunately, he is the master at restoration. He will make all things new again. (Revelation 21:5)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Yes, the omniscient one didn't see that coming. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

it is nice to be loved by God in that I am an actual person that God wanted to love which is why I exist.

God doesn't just love us, he actually likes us.

Us churchgoers "have" to love one another, though we don't always like each other.

 

[public hermit]

God doesn't just love us, he actually likes us.

I just can't see how that's true, haha. I've seen you argue this before, but I forget. Is it because liking someone is more virtuous than loving them? We love people we don't like. Sorry, if I'm butchering it, but I remember it making some intuitive sense.

 

[Anthony2019]

I would say that God's love is for all.
It is a perfect love.

 

[Saint Steven]

I just can't see how that's true, haha. I've seen you argue this before, but I forget. Is it because liking someone is more virtuous than loving them? We love people we don't like. Sorry, if I'm butchering it, but I remember it making some intuitive sense.

Us churchgoers "have" to love one another, though we don't always like each other.

I say this to address the way we hate each other by claiming we love each other.
Since we are Christians we say we love each other, but don't particularly like one another.

Personally, I prefer hatred to indifference. I think indifference is worse than hatred.

 

[com7fy8]

John 3:16 says God loved "the world" . . . not only certain people in the world.

Plus, 1 John 2:2 says Jesus is the propitiation for not only our sins but for the whole world.

But > there are people who do not benefit from God's love, the way they could. This has to do with each person's character, and if each one is obeying how God would do him or her His own good.

It can be like this > a father has two sons whom he loves equally. But one son runs off into the swamp and is getting bitten by mosquitos, and infected by diseases . . . while the other son, equally loved, stays with Daddy and enjoys all the benefits and intimacy of Dad's love.