Does God love all or some?

[Saint Steven]

But, of course, if God's love comes from God's self, regardless of the object, then one's "choice" plays no role in whether one is loved by God or not. God's love will be the same for everyone. And, if it's the same, then the outcome of that love is the same.

So, from that perspective, what does the term "the elect" mean in the scope of God's love for everyone? Sounds like favoritism. - lol

 

[LaSorcia]

1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

The fact that this is written by and for Christians doesn't mean that God loves only the righteous, but perhaps only the righteous recognize and consistently experience God's love.

Someone should write a book about this.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Would you say that God's love us primarily revealed in the NT, because God's love is revealed in Jesus? I tend to think so. And, because of that, I think the OT, and it's claims concerning God should be tempered accordingly. In other words, The love of God as revealed in Christ is the lens through which we read and appropriate the OT.

Yes, when reading the OT, it's important to "Jesus" it.

The OT prophecies were based on the judgments stated in the law, this much is obvious if you give the OT a listen over a short period of time.

The NT prophecies are based on the testimony of Jesus. In the same way the law was nailed to the cross with Jesus in Colossians 2, the nature of prophecy was transformed because it's based on Jesus instead of rules for unregenerate slaves.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So, from that perspective, what does the term "the elect" mean in the scope of God's love for everyone? Sounds like favoritism. - lol

Many are called, but few are chosen.

All who are called are given the same "mina" but those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, learn how to invest it properly as if the kingdom existed here and now - because it does.

Spiritual growth doesn't exclusively come from developing what God gives us, it also comes from people who don't use what they have, and it is given to you.

 

[public hermit]

That said, your author (at least at first blush) makes it sound like God has no control over who He loves, that His love for us is nothing more than some sort of Divine primal urge that must be fulfilled, IOW, that He does not choose to love us, but that (in a very real sense) He is forced to do so instead, by His nature. Something about that just seems wrong to me (especially where God is concerned)

Good point. I think the way out of this is to not see God's love as an attribute somehow separate from God's essence. God is love. For God not to love would be for God not to be God. We wouldn't say God is free to sin ( whatever that means). We would say it's not God's nature(essence) to sin. In the same way, it's not God's nature to not-love.

What "righteousness" could that possibly be, inherently speaking anyway (Romans 3:10-12, 23; Ephesians 2:1-3)?

The Bible tells us what God's motivation (for loving us and choosing to save us) is ~not~ .. Mark 2:17; Romans 4:5, but why does His choice to love us (assuming that loving us ~is~ a real choice He makes) have to be based upon some intrinsic quality that He sees in us (on what we are/what we are capable of doing, rather than on who we are, the children that He has chosen to adopt as His very own?

There is no righteousness available, I don't think. Not, according to the scriptures, at any rate. One response might be that God loves the righteousness imputed in Christ. In that case, God doesn't love us, per se, but Christ in us. That seems to have been the position of the Reformers. I think that might be one route for those who would argue that God is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved. Of course, that righteousness is given by God, so...

Or could your author be correct? After all, some level of "righteousness" does seem to be the basis for God's choice of Noah and his family (over all of the other people in the world), as well of Lot and his family (over all of the rest of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah). What do you think?

I'm going to say that God's love comes, not from the object, but from God. Nonetheless, the scriptures, OT in particular, can present some push back to that position. So, as is often the case, the scriptures give us challenges that aren't easily resolved by either position in the OP. That's my best evasive non-answer.

 

[Saint Steven]

Many are called, but few are chosen.

The many who are called come from the all.
The few who are chosen come from the called.
All > the called > the chosen

How do the all that are not called know they are loved? (didn't make the cut)
How do the called that are not chosen know they are loved? (didn't make the cut)
It seems that only the chosen are REALLY loved. (made the cut)
The called seem LESS loved. And those not called don't seem to be loved at all.

 

[Saint Steven]

God is love. For God not to love would be for God not to be God.

That is so well-stated. Kudos.

 

[public hermit]

The fact that this is written by and for Christians doesn't mean that God loves only the righteous, but perhaps only the righteous recognize and consistently experience God's love

That's an interesting way to look at it. I hadn't considered it that way, but that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The many who are called come from the all.
The few who are chosen come from the called.
All > the called > the chosen

How do the all that are not called know they are loved? (didn't make the cut)
How do the called that are not chosen know they are loved? (didn't make the cut)
It seems that only the chosen are REALLY loved. (made the cut)
The called seem LESS loved. And those not called don't seem to be loved at all.

Many are called - these are the people who are born again by the Holy Spirit.

Few are chosen - these are like Abraham, the prophets, the apostles, Jesus.

Thus the saying "even the elect"

Some have a special quality that allows them to operate in the kingdom of God more so than in this world.

I am reminded of Romans 9:21. This illustrates, God makes all the vessels with love, but human criteria to judge what God did - does not follow.

 

[St_Worm2]

Someone should write a book about this.

I think someone already has For instance: The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God: Carson, D. A.: 9781581341263: Amazon.com: Books

​

edit: The context of Dr. Carson's book makes it look even more interesting (IMHO).

Preface

1 On Distorting the Love of God

2 God Is Love

3 God’s Love and God’s Sovereignty

4 God’s Love and God’s Wrath

General Index
​

 

[Religiot]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

Some, few to be exact: He hates most.

 

[public hermit]

So, from that perspective, what does the term "the elect" mean in the scope of God's love for everyone? Sounds like favoritism. - lol

It does. It sounds random. Election drives a wedge between the two assertions (God's motivation is internal or external) of the OP. I'm not sure how to reconcile it, if such is possible.

 

[public hermit]

Some, few to be exact: He hates most.

Oh my. Please, say more.

 

[friend of]

Logically, if God commands us to love even our enemies, then He must also love in selfsame manner.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Some, few to be exact: He hates most.

1 John 4:20 says that for whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God. (who is unseen)

So a reverse application means God mostly hates himself?

We are made to be like and look like God according to the beginning.

 

[public hermit]

Logically, if God commands us to love even our enemies, then He must also love in selfsame manner.

Good point. God must love everyone, then.

 

[public hermit]

, when reading the OT, it's important to "Jesus" it

That's a great way to put it.

 

[LaSorcia]

Good point. God must love everyone, then.

Does he love unrepentant sinners a little less, maybe?

 

[public hermit]

Does he love unrepentant sinners a little less, maybe?

I don't think so, but as you pointed out it might seem so to them.

"To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure. Their very minds and consciences are corrupted." Titus 1:15

 

[dqhall]

In Agape and Eros, Anders Nygren argues that God's love is spontaneous and unmotivated. He argues that the ground of God's love is found within God and has no extrinsic motivation. It is not because humans are lovable that God loves them, but simply because God is love.

This is why there was disagreement between Jesus and the religious leaders. The assumption of the religious leaders was that God's love was given to the righteous because they were righteous. What motivated God's love was their righteousness. So, when Jesus loves sinners it made no sense to them, and in fact seemed contrary to the character of God. But, of course Jesus being divine, his love was not motivated by the object of love, but came from within himself. He loved because he is love. And because his love was not motivated by the object of his love, he was free to love everyone.

If God loves all, it is because God's love comes from God's own self (i.e. God is love).

If God only loves some, it is because God's love is motivated by the righteousness of the beloved.

"If God's love were restricted to the righteous it would be evoked by its object and not spontaneous; but just by the fact that it seeks sinners, who do not deserve it and can lay no claim to it, it manifests most clearly its spontaneous and unmotivated nature." Anders Nygren

Does God love some or all?

Agape and Eros - Wikipedia

Matthew 5:45 ...For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.

If you greet people, they may greet you in return. If you do not greet people, you may get fewer greetings your own self.

If you love God, God will love you more than those who hate God.