Does God know when you will die/where you go? Or does He simply see all endings?

[Noscentia]

More food responses.

It got me thinking about something else. If He only knows of one end for us, then why would we need to pray for help on a decision? Or for healing? Or for anything really. Because no matter what we do, our life is already written out right? Go to church? You could just sit at home 24/7 and play games until you die.

Arguing from the other side I could say technically if thats true and you just sit at homer 24/7 then that would mean God already knew you were going to do that. So it wasn't really your choice to do nothing, He already knew you would.

My counter argument to that would be wouldn't that just be a one liner we can use no matter what anyone says? In that case does that mean God know someones going to kill themselves and He wouldn't intervene? After all we pray for His help and guidance right? What about in the case of drunk driver. Was it that drivers free will that made him drink and crash into me and kill me? Or was it in stone all along? Again why pray then? What happens is meant to be.

Another counter point would actually be maybe there is some truth to we have on ending and He knows what it is because He does talk about end day events. Such as the anti-christ coming to power, the euro becoming a thing... so on and so forth. This would mean all things are suppose to happen a certain way then because how could such events take place if its all dependent on free will of everyone leading to said events?

Though if this were the case then would that mean christian protesting at abortion clinics and voting for a president who would overturn certain types of marriage would be pointless since it the president was already picked before the universe began?

Admittedly there are lots of good arguments to make from either side. And the truth is we can see either view being right based on the bible. But we won't really know until we get to heaven and He tells us since at that point we will know far more then we know now. So this isn't really a topic to worry about. If your struggling with a deep dark sin and maybe are thinking "But what if I do go to hell, I pray so hard to stop this sin and stop turning from God ?". I don't know how to answer that. Except for saying just pray, pray and pray. Try to change (with His help).

we shouldn't fear the outcome of "what if" because if your saved then theres no reason we would end up in hell unless we fully turned away from God and basically left christianity. Well again depending on your belief of OSAS.

I dealt with many of these same problems when I first started searching and I've found some answers I hope might help you. To begin with, we always first assume that man has free will , but this in itself is already untrue. Man's will, by it's nature, is enslaved to sin. There is a reason that no man except Jesus has ever been able to lead a sinless life. That is because, at the end of the day, our wills are shackled to sin. The only way to break free from this is to be regenerated and made alive again in Christ through true and honest faith, something which we cannot, as slaves to sin, choose of our own volition. Faith is a gift. We are, as believers, brought to Christ by the Father and that is how we become believers.

God does in fact know the hour of every man's death as well as where he ends up. It is much simpler to imagine when you think about it thus: every person, once born, is enslaved to sin and in rebellion against God until saved and made alive by Christ. Therefore, we are all destined for hell in our natural state and it is God in His mercy who gives some of us the saving faith which saves us from damnation. Prayer will always be helpful, but ultimately it is a tool for bringing us closer to God, it is not a magic 8-ball which may or may not give you the outcomes or answers you want. God is sovereign and our choices ultimately have no negative impact on His plan for us or this world.

The sad fact is that we are all sinners and rebels who fall well short of God's standard and we all deserve damnation, it is only God who chooses some to be vessels which demonstrate His mercy and others to demonstrate His wrath. That said, God does show mercy to all of us by allowing us to have life in the first place (knowing full well what sins we will ultimately commit over our lifetimes.) Many are given good lives and some unbelievers live better lives than those who are faithful their entire lives. These blessings are still a demonstration of His mercy for those who are destined for hell.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I dealt with many of these same problems when I first started searching and I've found some answers I hope might help you. To begin with, we always first assume that man has free will , but this in itself is already untrue. Man's will, by it's nature, is enslaved to sin. There is a reason that no man except Jesus has ever been able to lead a sinless life. That is because, at the end of the day, our wills are shackled to sin. The only way to break free from this is to be regenerated and made alive again in Christ through true and honest faith, something which we cannot, as slaves to sin, choose of our own volition. Faith is a gift. We are, as believers, brought to Christ by the Father and that is how we become believers.

God does in fact know the hour of every man's death as well as where he ends up. It is much simpler to imagine when you think about it thus: every person, once born, is enslaved to sin and in rebellion against God until saved and made alive by Christ. Therefore, we are all destined for hell in our natural state and it is God in His mercy who gives some of us the saving faith which saves us from damnation. Prayer will always be helpful, but ultimately it is a tool for bringing us closer to God, it is not a magic 8-ball which may or may not give you the outcomes or answers you want. God is sovereign and our choices ultimately have no negative impact on His plan for us or this world.

The sad fact is that we are all sinners and rebels who fall well short of God's standard and we all deserve damnation, it is only God who chooses some to be vessels which demonstrate His mercy and others to demonstrate His wrath. That said, God does show mercy to all of us by allowing us to have life in the first place (knowing full well what sins we will ultimately commit over our lifetimes.) Many are given good lives and some unbelievers live better lives than those who are faithful their entire lives. These blessings are still a demonstration of His mercy for those who are destined for hell.

Wow. What a remarkable response! Thank you; that was edifying for me.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I dealt with many of these same problems when I first started searching and I've found some answers I hope might help you. To begin with, we always first assume that man has free will , but this in itself is already untrue. Man's will, by it's nature, is enslaved to sin. There is a reason that no man except Jesus has ever been able to lead a sinless life. That is because, at the end of the day, our wills are shackled to sin. The only way to break free from this is to be regenerated and made alive again in Christ through true and honest faith, something which we cannot, as slaves to sin, choose of our own volition. Faith is a gift. We are, as believers, brought to Christ by the Father and that is how we become believers.

God does in fact know the hour of every man's death as well as where he ends up. It is much simpler to imagine when you think about it thus: every person, once born, is enslaved to sin and in rebellion against God until saved and made alive by Christ. Therefore, we are all destined for hell in our natural state and it is God in His mercy who gives some of us the saving faith which saves us from damnation. Prayer will always be helpful, but ultimately it is a tool for bringing us closer to God, it is not a magic 8-ball which may or may not give you the outcomes or answers you want. God is sovereign and our choices ultimately have no negative impact on His plan for us or this world.

The sad fact is that we are all sinners and rebels who fall well short of God's standard and we all deserve damnation, it is only God who chooses some to be vessels which demonstrate His mercy and others to demonstrate His wrath. That said, God does show mercy to all of us by allowing us to have life in the first place (knowing full well what sins we will ultimately commit over our lifetimes.) Many are given good lives and some unbelievers live better lives than those who are faithful their entire lives. These blessings are still a demonstration of His mercy for those who are destined for hell.

Wow yes that was an amazing response. And is so true. We are slave to sin for a reason. Despite some thinking they don't mess up anymore. If you allow me I want to copy your response (with credit to you of course) into the other thread in which the guy was asking about this subject. He should enjoy this answer.

 

[Noscentia]

Wow yes that was an amazing response. And is so true. We are slave to sin for a reason. Despite some thinking they don't mess up anymore. If you allow me I want to copy your response (with credit to you of course) into the other thread in which the guy was asking about this subject. He should enjoy this answer.

Sure, feel free to. That said, this is essentially Calvinist/Reformed theology and some might find it offensive.

 

[Widlast]

because if he can foresee our every decision, thought, and action all the way into the future, then there is no free will. Everything is already destined to be the way it is and nothing can change it.

And there is where you are terribly wrong, you suffer from limited thinking, assuming that your reality IS reality. To know what someone will do is NOT making them do it. I throw bird seed out in the yard in winter knowing the wild birds will eat it, I do not force them to do anything, they do what they want of their own free will.
God knows ALL, He is author of ALL. Past, present, and future. His knowledge of what you will do does not in any way force you to do anything.

 

[TaylorSexton]

And there is where you are terribly wrong, you suffer from limited thinking, assuming that your reality IS reality. To know what someone will do is NOT making them do it. I throw bird seed out in the yard in winter knowing the wild birds will eat it, I do not force them to do anything, they do what they want of their own free will.
God knows ALL, He is author of ALL. Past, present, and future. His knowledge of what you will do does not in any way force you to do anything.

I think you misread what he was saying. (And, frankly, you responded rather rudely.) He was saying that if God indeed has infallible foreknowledge, then everything is determined and will happen as it is determined, because what God infallibly knows will happen must of necessity happen, otherwise his knowledge is either incomplete and/or fallible—both conclusions being, biblically speaking, blasphemous. The conclusion is sound: Infallible foreknowledge is essentially determinism.

 

[Curious Inquirer]

I find it difficult believe that God knows when we die. Consider the recent attack of a terrorist in Manchester, for example. If God knew that those innocent people were going to die and didn't stop it, hm, I would have to wonder about the mercy of God. By and large God provided us with free will, otherwise he would be responsible for all the wars, the holocaust, etc. How is 'God is love' compatible with that?

 

[Widlast]

I think you misread what he was saying. (And, frankly, you responded rather rudely.) He was saying that if God indeed has infallible foreknowledge, then everything is determined and will happen as it is determined, because what God infallibly knows will happen must of necessity happen, otherwise his knowledge is either incomplete and/or fallible—both conclusions being, biblically speaking, blasphemous. The conclusion is sound: Infallible foreknowledge is essentially determinism.

Infallible foreknowledge is essentially determinism.

NO. Knowing that someone will do something is not remotely the same as forcing them to do something.
Can't you see the difference?

 

[TaylorSexton]

NO. Knowing that someone will do something is not remotely the same as forcing them to do something.
Can't you see the difference?

Where did I say anything at all about forcing anyone to do anything? Can you show me where I even used the word "force," or anything synonymous? See, that is why these conversations are rarely profitable, because all of the sudden and out of the blue people start putting words into each other's mouths, drawing illegitimate, false, and invalid conclusions for the other person, which end up being nothing more than straw man accusations.

All I was trying to do was to suggest that I think you misread the other person's statement, and then provide reasons why.

 

[Neogaia777]

So recently in a post in the theology section someone had asked "Why does God let people be born who He knows go to hell?" or something along those lines. I had said He knows all how we think He does. To which many thought I was being unbiblical in my views.

So lets see what you think. So when we say "God knows when you will die and where you will go!" does that sound to confusing? If He knows this before you were born then you would not really have free will at all since your scripted to die at a certain point and scripted to go to heaven or hell. Which makes no sense.

So my view is yes, He does know everything. He knows how we die and where we go. BUT... He sees all possible endings. Not just one that is "going" to happen. For example a man is driving down the road and is behind someone slow. The green light will be turning red soon. So he decides to be patient and stay behind the guy even though it means being at a red light. So as he stops another man in the left land speeds up to go around you and goes through the light and gets t-boned by a car. Now if this guy had have not stopped and went around him to go through the intersection, he himself would have been t-boned.

This is what I mean by God sees every path we can possible take. Thus in terms of free will, we end up choosing our paths. If we go to hell its because of paths we took to get there. True, God sens you to hell or heaven. But will still "drive the car" to get to either place in life. Just as with death. If I decided to jump off a cliff does that mean God knew its what I would do since birth? No. It means its a decision I made. Where as if I hadn't maybe I'd due of old age, or cancer or something else. Again He can see all paths.

So what do you think? Is our life pointlessly scripted without free will since He knows ONE and only one way we will die and where we will go? Or does He see all endings for us and we more or less choose those paths?

If you are for the first one would you care to expand on how it makes sense given we have free will and He says He will not take that away? Because it biblicaly and logically makes no sense. Especially considering the bible talks about many things that would make it sound like God doesn't want us going down certain paths. Such as encouraging us. Or giving us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Its why He is happy when we do some things and sad when we do others. None of that would be mentioned if He knew everyone had a predestined future that they could not avoid.

I don't know how times I've said this on here, but it is, or was, and is not now or any longer, the "difference" between God, the Father, and God, the Son...

God Bless!

 

[Blade]

You know.. wow dont get me started. Still waiting for Him to talk about this. Welll I mean. Take Adam and Eve. Tell me.. does GOD know all? Can GOD lie? God asks "Adam where are you?" God does not know? God"who said you were naked" Again.. God does not know? Cain "wheres your brother? Why do I hear his blood..." Again.. GOD does not know?

Sodom and Gomorrah.. "I have come down to see if the Cries I heard are true".. again God didnt know?

Now haha.. GOD.... ANYTHING I say here is just MAN period. HAHA. So I look at this .. from what I Know of Him.. what I read. I know and see some one..that is HOLY. Now I mean HOLY! NO SIN what so ever can come into heaven. So can GOD see all this SIN evil know it inside and out? PLEASE I said that so badly...it would for ME explane so much. Well ..no way is SIN smarter..it cant be.. its all a lie. its what He is not. So there is no way so to speak it can go where HE would not be already. Take Satan. God didnt already know. Its written SIN was found FOUND in him.

This is all some human.. flesh that has NEVER seen HIM as He is in all His glory and power and all singing His praises that is speaking.

SOOO does GOD know when I will die? You know.. in all the times I have like you I am sure been so blessed to talk back and forth. I never had the thought or feeling "he already knows everything I am going to say". Because unless GOD lied. He talked as if He really truly cared about what I had to say and treated it as if He never new. I think we are not puppets. Where He does not read EVERYTHING you think. To KNOW YOUR heart..ooh not the same.

So.. He knows the end from the start. He IS in the past NOW. He is NOW and He is in the future NOW. And He is NOT in time. Man He can be with you standing with you FOREVER and still be with me..talking.. HOW..no clue. He wrote REV! Take a GUESS if YOU were not up there already when JOHN wrote some of that. So can GOD KNOW? Going with I KNOW NOTHING and sure

 

[Widlast]

Where did I say anything at all about forcing anyone to do anything? Can you show me where I even used the word "force," or anything synonymous? See, that is why these conversations are rarely profitable, because all of the sudden and out of the blue people start putting words into each other's mouths, drawing illegitimate, false, and invalid conclusions for the other person, which end up being nothing more than straw man accusations.

All I was trying to do was to suggest that I think you misread the other person's statement, and then provide reasons why.

You used the term "determinism", which by it's very nature is "forcing". For, if you are "determined", you have no choice.

 

[Neogaia777]

You used the term "determinism", which by it's very nature is "forcing". For, if you are "determined", you have no choice.

Not necessarily, "to "determine"" can simply mean to decide, to set on a certain course, it does not have to mean "forcing" in any way...

 

[TaylorSexton]

You used the term "determinism", which by it's very nature is "forcing". For, if you are "determined", you have no choice.

I mean no offense, friend, but only edification, when I say that you should really brush up on your philosophy before engaging in these kinds of discussions.

 

[LoricaLady]

The Bible says that the Almighty knows the end from the beginning.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Any question that starts with "Does God know..." has ONLY one answer: YES.

 

[JohnKing67]

Does God know when you will die/where you go?

I don't really know. I once heard someone say that God has the ability to see our endings and where we will go but chooses not to because if he knew the ending would be a bad one he would probably never want anything to do with us, because it would be a waste of time and effort.

 

[Brennenstuhl]

I feel infallible knowledge doesn't necessarily conflict with free will.

Absolute determinism seems like it throw God into conflict with his own stated agenda. It would have meant that, for example, he would have decreed that Jezebel promote the Baals and the Ashtoreths, or that David send Uriah to his death. In other words, it would have been that God would decree someone do such a thing. As such, he'd have promoted actions that he had decreed sinful, and in truth, such actors would have, in fact, been acting within God's will. Yet as stated before, while God can know all ends, he must know what one will do.

So I'd simply say he knows what you will do, but in no way does he force you to. When you were a kid, did your parents ever know you'd disobey what they said, and were keeping an eye on you, waiting for your to take that cookie from the cookie jar you weren't allowed to have? I feel like that's God. He knows what you are going to do, but has not ordained it to happen. In truth, I wager that he'd have been happy not to have to send Jesus at all, and that Eve would have turned away and refused Satan. But because he's omniscient, he knew that, given Eve's nature, she would, even if he didn't wish she would.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

J

 

[Neogaia777]

Does God know when you will die/where you go?

I don't really know. I once heard someone say that God has the ability to see our endings and where we will go but chooses not to because if he knew the ending would be a bad one he would probably never want anything to do with us, because it would be a waste of time and effort.

That's not my God, my God would have the option not to, yet choose to... For better or for worse...

God Bless!