Does God know when you will die/where you go? Or does He simply see all endings?

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Interesting post...... I Asked God these questions before......and He answered:

Asked me where was I when He laid the foundations of the earth. Then He told me to go fish out a whale from the sea with a fishing rod/hook and then come back.....

Lol aww

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

That was no answer. I am tired of labels that imply heresy. No one knows. I am in agreement with Nothingisimpossible. As I read the Scriptures it seems to me that omniscience is only in the part of the Trinity we call the Father. The Son said he did nothing but what the Father showed him, and that only the Father knows the time of the end. He also said that the Spirit says nothing but what the Son says. So in 2/3rds of the Trinity they are not omniscient. This why statements like in the Prophets say, "this never entered my mind." And the omniscience that the Father has is like the master chess player that knows all possible outcomes. We still have free will and the events of a fallen world occur because of the fall, not because of God.

This is an interesting point of view never considered it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Widlast]

God exists outside of time, it is His creation. He knows all that ever has happened, is happening, or ever will happen, in excruciating detail.
We however do not. We live within time, and our choices are ours, though they do have everlasting consequences. We are completely free to choose whatever path we wish. God will help us to choose right if we but only ask. How few ask. Anyone who wants God will find Him, those who do not, will not.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

The answer isn't very hard to figure out but it is hard to accept.

At the end of the day you have been given a way to salvation in Jesus Christ. You should just take it and not worry about whether or not you exercised free will in doing it.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Very good responses. It is true I don't really fully understand or care in the end only because whatever someones view is, we cannot change anything. Though I do have another question for those that believe your death date and destination are already set.

Lets just say for sake of conversation God came down and told you that you would die on November 13th, 2026 at 9:32am in a accident where you were flying a plane and it crashed. And He said you went to hell.

Again bear with me hear and ignore the fact this wouldn't happen. Also ignore how you died since obviously maybe you would fly later in life for some reason. The bigger point I am making is would feel like you had no free will or choice in your life if someone despite how you are now, you still would up in hell? Wouldn't that make you frustrated? Also as a side question what would happen if after you heard this and He went away you got do depressed you ended your life the next day. What would that mean since He seen how you would die already?

Now obviously I am not saying we understand God and I am not questioning Him because obviously we only know like 0.000000000000000001% of everything there is to know in life. But what I am saying is by stating He already knows how, when we die and where we go before our birth, isn't that saying the bible is wrong then? Because if we have free will, then your statement would imply we don't have any free will since no matter what we do, we will die a certain way and end up in heaven or hell no matter where we think we may be going?

I don't really see anything wrong with my thinking of how He may work. After all we can watch movies where "god like" people can see the future and every outcome. So why do we limit God to only being able to see one future outcome for each of us? I believe He is all powerful and can see everything in the future. Every outcome for every step we take. He can even see what breakfast choices we will make, by that way that is not meant to be as some funny joke as if mocking Him. I am being very serious.

Actually this reminds me of when I was earlier in my life a psychologist said I would make a great tactician/strategist. I would always see a situation and try to figure out all the possible outcomes and more so which ones were more likely at that point in time. So maybe thats why I see God as the same. He sees all outcomes and all end games. With every step we take He tried to help us and reroute us down different paths to one of the many good "outcomes" we have ahead.

Which would make sense given we have helpers like the Holy Spirit and the Bible...etc to guide us make our next moves so we can stay on the good paths. Which also implies we can choose many bad paths including ones that lead us to hell instead. Though obviously this depends on if you believe in OSAS or not. I do not believe in it.

 

[GTW27]

So recently in a post in the theology section someone had asked "Why does God let people be born who He knows go to hell?" or something along those lines. I had said He knows all how we think He does. To which many thought I was being unbiblical in my views.

So lets see what you think. So when we say "God knows when you will die and where you will go!" does that sound to confusing? If He knows this before you were born then you would not really have free will at all since your scripted to die at a certain point and scripted to go to heaven or hell. Which makes no sense.

So my view is yes, He does know everything. He knows how we die and where we go. BUT... He sees all possible endings. Not just one that is "going" to happen. For example a man is driving down the road and is behind someone slow. The green light will be turning red soon. So he decides to be patient and stay behind the guy even though it means being at a red light. So as he stops another man in the left land speeds up to go around you and goes through the light and gets t-boned by a car. Now if this guy had have not stopped and went around him to go through the intersection, he himself would have been t-boned.

This is what I mean by God sees every path we can possible take. Thus in terms of free will, we end up choosing our paths. If we go to hell its because of paths we took to get there. True, God sens you to hell or heaven. But will still "drive the car" to get to either place in life. Just as with death. If I decided to jump off a cliff does that mean God knew its what I would do since birth? No. It means its a decision I made. Where as if I hadn't maybe I'd due of old age, or cancer or something else. Again He can see all paths.

So what do you think? Is our life pointlessly scripted without free will since He knows ONE and only one way we will die and where we will go? Or does He see all endings for us and we more or less choose those paths?

If you are for the first one would you care to expand on how it makes sense given we have free will and He says He will not take that away? Because it biblicaly and logically makes no sense. Especially considering the bible talks about many things that would make it sound like God doesn't want us going down certain paths. Such as encouraging us. Or giving us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Its why He is happy when we do some things and sad when we do others. None of that would be mentioned if He knew everyone had a predestined future that they could not avoid.

The days of man are numbered by The Lord. Every door will be knocked upon in it's season, at the perfect time. If His voice is heard, and the door is opened unto Him then it that soul that shall not perish. But if His voice is heard, and the door is left shut unto Him it is that soul that shall perish. You see The Lord is just and Perfect in all His ways. It is His desire that no soul should perish.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

The way I see it, the past and the future both follow the laws of cause and effect. To say that something nearly happened is to say that it didn't happen, but that our ability to predict the exact course of events was limited by the margin available for error. What didn't happen yesterday has zero chance of changing by tomorrow. No passage of time changes what happened yesterday. Therefore, everything that didn't happen yesterday is absolutely impossible, and everything that did happen is absolutely inevitable.

When it comes to the future, we have a great deal more uncertainty, owing to the fact that the human brain is part of the same chain of cause and effect, being affected by the past, and affecting the future. It's this uncertainty that makes the future seem malleable. Yet, the same laws that governed the past also govern the future. I would have to conclude that the future is also set in stone. The only thing that appears to change is our perception of it.

God can always step in and change the course of history. Even if he tells us what will happen, and we react to that prediction, he still is in control. The final outcome is his, and not ours. I like to think that history is his story. From his perspective, it may seem scripted, and that it was over when it started. From our perspective, it was always a journey with an uncertain destination. Either way, it's not pointless, as you call it. The point is God's. History is only pointless in an atheistic universe.

As always, I won't engage in endless debate. The real underlying issue, here, is whether or not you feel frustration at not being the highest power in control of your own destiny. If you dislike the idea of God being in control, then you dislike it, and there's no debating your preferences. The reasoning, here, will always be available to support either side of the matter.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Well me personally, I don't mind not having control. However if someone is going to hell and He knew this before the person was born, then why would He send Jesus to save us? What good is salvation if you don't give someone the option to be saved? For example when you die, if you ended up in hell would be like "Its ok, I was destined to go here!". Or would you say "Wait, I was a good christian my whole life. How is this possible? Did I even have free will? Salvation didn't save me!".

BTW I should point out when I make posts on here I tend to try and see things from both sides of the argument. In this case I am making the argument I seen someone else make on another topic. The guy that made it was really upset that he may be hell bound despite being christian.

Myself? I don't worry about that for myself. I trust and have faith in God. I know there are things beyond my understanding. I know I am saved and don't fear death or hell. I actually don't know why anyone would fear going to hell if save. If you fear hell then it means you doubt your salvation which means your doubt God.

 

[Xeena]

I think like a flow chart. If this, then that, else something (repeat). That is man's free will. And our life is an ever changing book. I've been near death, and walked out of the hospital hours later. I'm sure those people coding me would not expect that at all. I watched a heart surgeon run to my room during a test another time. I'm sure others have experienced more spectacular stories.

However, we are told HIS ways are higher. -
Isaiah 55:8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

As much as I would love a black and white answer because that is how my brain prefers things, we cannot force God's way to our understanding.

Matthew 18:1-14
We must become as little children, completely relying on HIM.
He does not want any to perish, leaving the 99 to go after the 1

Proverbs 3:5
Lean not to your own understanding
1 Corinthians 13:9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Tldr; idk and nobody else does either

 

[JoeP222w]

God is all knowing (omniscient). God knows the past, present and future, since He is outside of time. God does not learn anything, nor does anything catch Him by surprise. He is omniscient.

 

[AlexDTX]

Case in point...

It is inconceivable to me that a truly remorseful individual would utter the phrase, "Now you get over it," to the one towards whom is supposedly apologetic.

It is not remorse, it is regret. There is nothing to be remorseful about. I made an error. I explained I was frustrated. I had been indirectly called an heretic by Catholics who made similar statements referring to other "official" heresies. I was wrong regarding Molinism. I looked it up for further clarifications. For that error, I accept your correction. But this forum is world wide with a multitude of people from all walks of life commenting. This is not some kind of gentleman's club. You are way too easily offended. Perhaps you have been shot at by others which is why you are over-reacting.

My saying, "Get over it" is because instead of accepting my apology, you lectured me like a school child. Your lecture was just as inappropriate as my "get over it" comment.

 

[TaylorSexton]

It is not remorse, it is regret. There is nothing to be remorseful about. I made an error. I explained I was frustrated. I had been indirectly called an heretic by Catholics who made similar statements referring to other "official" heresies. I was wrong regarding Molinism. I looked it up for further clarifications. For that error, I accept your correction. But this forum is world wide with a multitude of people from all walks of life commenting. This is not some kind of gentleman's club. You are way too easily offended. Perhaps you have been shot at by others which is why you are over-reacting.

My saying, "Get over it" is because instead of accepting my apology, you lectured me like a school child. Your lecture was just as inappropriate as my "get over it" comment.

I'm sorry, friend, but there is absolutely nothing in what you have said in the past two posts that indicates you are truly apologetic (regretful, or whatever). You accuse me of being easily offended, but would you not have reacted the same way had I exhibited such behavior toward you, especially since we both are called to a higher standard? Of course you would have; this is simply the teapot calling the kettle black. You even admitted that you yourself, when attacked by Catholics, reacted in a similar fashion.

I have no intention of lecturing you, but it is admittedly frustrating to me that you are so insistent that you are apologetic (your words, not mine), yet you have lit many pixels qualifying this "apology," which involved even demeaning me further.

It just doesn't seem like a Christian apology (or any kind of apology) to me. We are brothers, and part of our responsibility to each other is to edify each other, and that involves calling one another out sometimes, and I think this is warranted. We are all bad at apologizing sometimes, because we have to swallow our pride; I know how difficult this is for me. And, frankly, judging by the way you have "apologized," it is simply not genuine, and needs to be pointed out. We as Christians are too quick to say to the ones we sin against, "Get over it," or, "You are too easily offended." Rather, we are often too easily offending.

I'm sorry, but I just can't let you jump down my throat, "apologize" by further attacking my disposition, then berate me for not accepting such an empty "apology," and expect to get away with it as a Christ-follower. I hope you would do the same for me, brother.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

the problem I would have with the "god sees all endings" view is we now have something that is outside of God's creation and out of His control. God sort of has to deal with these 'outcomes' that He had no part in making. as William lane craig once said: "God has to deal with the cards he was dealt".

so who is the dealer?

 

[TaylorSexton]

the problem I would have with the "god sees all endings" view is we now have something that is outside of God's creation and out of His control. God sort of has to deal with these 'outcomes' that He had no part in making. as William lane craig once said: "God has to deal with the cards he was dealt".

so who is the dealer?

That, and the problem that, as I mentioned in my first post, in that view, God is not really and truly omniscient. If he sees all ends, the question still remains, "Does he know the actual end, or not?" If he does, then whether or not he "sees all endings" is irrelevant in every conceivable way; if he does not, then he is not truly omniscient because, although he "sees all endings," the fact remains that there is still one thing he does not know: the actual end.

 

[AlexDTX]

I'm sorry, friend, but there is absolutely nothing in what you have said in the past two posts that indicates you are truly apologetic (regretful, or whatever). You accuse me of being easily offended, but would you not have reacted the same way had I exhibited such behavior toward you, especially since we both are called to a higher standard? Of course you would have; this is simply the teapot calling the kettle black. You even admitted that you yourself, when attacked by Catholics, reacted in a similar fashion.

I have no intention of lecturing you, but it is admittedly frustrating to me that you are so insistent that you are apologetic (your words, not mine), yet you have lit many pixels qualifying this "apology," which involved even demeaning me further.

It just doesn't seem like a Christian apology (or any kind of apology) to me. We are brothers, and part of our responsibility to each other is to edify each other, and that involves calling one another out sometimes, and I think this is warranted. We are all bad at apologizing sometimes, because we have to swallow our pride; I know how difficult this is for me. And, frankly, judging by the way you have "apologized," it is simply not genuine, and needs to be pointed out. We as Christians are too quick to say to the ones we sin against, "Get over it," or, "You are too easily offended." Rather, we are often too easily offending.

I'm sorry, but I just can't let you jump down my throat, "apologize" by further attacking my disposition, then berate me for not accepting such an empty "apology," and expect to get away with it as a Christ-follower. I hope you would do the same for me, brother.

Frankly, I don't care, I have no reason to apologize again, for I made a small error and you have taken too great an offense. How are you going to handle persecution?

 

[TaylorSexton]

Frankly, I don't care, I have no reason to apologize again, for I made a small error and you have taken too great an offense. How are you going to handle persecution?

There it is again: "I don't care." "You have taken too great an offense." On and on and on. I will "handle" persecution because I expect it. On the other hand, I don't expect from a Christian what I have repeatedly read from you, and, so we are brothers, I know no other way to deal with it than to address it brother to brother. However, when even that is met with hostility and dismissal, I admit, I don't know how to deal with that, because I expect (and Christ demands) better.

It's almost as if I have said nothing. Sigh...

Very well, friend. I have no control over your heart. Do what you will with what I have said (or at least tried to say).

Blessings.

 

[Foxfyre]

So recently in a post in the theology section someone had asked "Why does God let people be born who He knows go to hell?" or something along those lines. I had said He knows all how we think He does. To which many thought I was being unbiblical in my views.

So lets see what you think. So when we say "God knows when you will die and where you will go!" does that sound to confusing? If He knows this before you were born then you would not really have free will at all since your scripted to die at a certain point and scripted to go to heaven or hell. Which makes no sense.

So my view is yes, He does know everything. He knows how we die and where we go. BUT... He sees all possible endings. Not just one that is "going" to happen. For example a man is driving down the road and is behind someone slow. The green light will be turning red soon. So he decides to be patient and stay behind the guy even though it means being at a red light. So as he stops another man in the left land speeds up to go around you and goes through the light and gets t-boned by a car. Now if this guy had have not stopped and went around him to go through the intersection, he himself would have been t-boned.

This is what I mean by God sees every path we can possible take. Thus in terms of free will, we end up choosing our paths. If we go to hell its because of paths we took to get there. True, God sens you to hell or heaven. But will still "drive the car" to get to either place in life. Just as with death. If I decided to jump off a cliff does that mean God knew its what I would do since birth? No. It means its a decision I made. Where as if I hadn't maybe I'd due of old age, or cancer or something else. Again He can see all paths.

So what do you think? Is our life pointlessly scripted without free will since He knows ONE and only one way we will die and where we will go? Or does He see all endings for us and we more or less choose those paths?

If you are for the first one would you care to expand on how it makes sense given we have free will and He says He will not take that away? Because it biblicaly and logically makes no sense. Especially considering the bible talks about many things that would make it sound like God doesn't want us going down certain paths. Such as encouraging us. Or giving us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Its why He is happy when we do some things and sad when we do others. None of that would be mentioned if He knew everyone had a predestined future that they could not avoid.

I'll waddle out onto that limb a bit here. My personal view is that God knows everything that is now. He knows what asteroids are headed where, what forces are building up on fault lines, what volcanoes are going to erupt, etc.

And he knows our hearts and minds and choices as of today and what the results/consequences of that will be unless something changes.

I have to believe he doesn't know what choice we will make tomorrow or next week, because if he can foresee our every decision, thought, and action all the way into the future, then there is no free will. Everything is already destined to be the way it is and nothing can change it. So repentence, redemption, praying for miracles, etc. have no power and no purpose.

If I didn't believe that we have the choice to affect the destiny of ourselves and others, that prayer changes things, then for me this whole life is just a cruel manipulation for the entertainment or amusement of a cruel God.

The God I know is not cruel. And the scriptures testifies to several instances in which "God heard and intervened or withheld the consequences, etc.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

More food responses.

It got me thinking about something else. If He only knows of one end for us, then why would we need to pray for help on a decision? Or for healing? Or for anything really. Because no matter what we do, our life is already written out right? Go to church? You could just sit at home 24/7 and play games until you die.

Arguing from the other side I could say technically if thats true and you just sit at homer 24/7 then that would mean God already knew you were going to do that. So it wasn't really your choice to do nothing, He already knew you would.

My counter argument to that would be wouldn't that just be a one liner we can use no matter what anyone says? In that case does that mean God know someones going to kill themselves and He wouldn't intervene? After all we pray for His help and guidance right? What about in the case of drunk driver. Was it that drivers free will that made him drink and crash into me and kill me? Or was it in stone all along? Again why pray then? What happens is meant to be.

Another counter point would actually be maybe there is some truth to we have on ending and He knows what it is because He does talk about end day events. Such as the anti-christ coming to power, the euro becoming a thing... so on and so forth. This would mean all things are suppose to happen a certain way then because how could such events take place if its all dependent on free will of everyone leading to said events?

Though if this were the case then would that mean christian protesting at abortion clinics and voting for a president who would overturn certain types of marriage would be pointless since it the president was already picked before the universe began?

Admittedly there are lots of good arguments to make from either side. And the truth is we can see either view being right based on the bible. But we won't really know until we get to heaven and He tells us since at that point we will know far more then we know now. So this isn't really a topic to worry about. If your struggling with a deep dark sin and maybe are thinking "But what if I do go to hell, I pray so hard to stop this sin and stop turning from God ?". I don't know how to answer that. Except for saying just pray, pray and pray. Try to change (with His help).

we shouldn't fear the outcome of "what if" because if your saved then theres no reason we would end up in hell unless we fully turned away from God and basically left christianity. Well again depending on your belief of OSAS.