Does God know when you will die/where you go? Or does He simply see all endings?

[NothingIsImpossible]

So recently in a post in the theology section someone had asked "Why does God let people be born who He knows go to hell?" or something along those lines. I had said He knows all how we think He does. To which many thought I was being unbiblical in my views.

So lets see what you think. So when we say "God knows when you will die and where you will go!" does that sound to confusing? If He knows this before you were born then you would not really have free will at all since your scripted to die at a certain point and scripted to go to heaven or hell. Which makes no sense.

So my view is yes, He does know everything. He knows how we die and where we go. BUT... He sees all possible endings. Not just one that is "going" to happen. For example a man is driving down the road and is behind someone slow. The green light will be turning red soon. So he decides to be patient and stay behind the guy even though it means being at a red light. So as he stops another man in the left land speeds up to go around you and goes through the light and gets t-boned by a car. Now if this guy had have not stopped and went around him to go through the intersection, he himself would have been t-boned.

This is what I mean by God sees every path we can possible take. Thus in terms of free will, we end up choosing our paths. If we go to hell its because of paths we took to get there. True, God sens you to hell or heaven. But will still "drive the car" to get to either place in life. Just as with death. If I decided to jump off a cliff does that mean God knew its what I would do since birth? No. It means its a decision I made. Where as if I hadn't maybe I'd due of old age, or cancer or something else. Again He can see all paths.

So what do you think? Is our life pointlessly scripted without free will since He knows ONE and only one way we will die and where we will go? Or does He see all endings for us and we more or less choose those paths?

If you are for the first one would you care to expand on how it makes sense given we have free will and He says He will not take that away? Because it biblicaly and logically makes no sense. Especially considering the bible talks about many things that would make it sound like God doesn't want us going down certain paths. Such as encouraging us. Or giving us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Its why He is happy when we do some things and sad when we do others. None of that would be mentioned if He knew everyone had a predestined future that they could not avoid.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I am usually not a fan of "black and white" answers, but it seems to me that this is indeed a "black and white" issue: Either God knows what is going to happen, or he doesn't. What you are describing in terms of God knowing all "possible" endings is essentially Molinism, which, in my opinion, is open theism disguised by language that appears to protect God's omniscience. Even if God knows all possible ends, in the end, he either knows which possibility will become actual, or he doesn't; so the problem is not averted by this philosophical construction, in my view.

The question is not "How can we reconcile free will and God's sovereignty?" Nor is it "How can we make God to be sovereign while still protecting free will in man?" The question is this: "What does God say about himself in Scripture, and what does God say about man in Scripture?" We are permitted to go no further beyond what Scripture states.

Now, what do you see in Scripture?

 

[brinny]

I am usually not a fan of "black and white" answers, but it seems to me that this is indeed a "black and white" issue: Either God knows what is going to happen, or he doesn't. What you are describing in terms of God knowing all "possible" endings is essentially Molinism, which, in my opinion, is open theism disguised by language that appears to protect God's omniscience. Even if God knows all possible ends, in the end, he either knows which possibility will become actual, or he doesn't; so the problem is not averted by this philosophical construction, in my view.

The question is not "How can we reconcile free will and God's sovereignty?" Nor is it "How can we make God to be sovereign while still protecting free will in man?" The question is this: "What does God say about himself in Scripture, and what does God say about man in Scripture?" We are permitted to go no farther beyond what Scripture states.

Now, what do you see in Scripture?

I agree.

 

[AlexDTX]

I am usually not a fan of "black and white" answers, but it seems to me that this is indeed a "black and white" issue: Either God knows what is going to happen, or he doesn't. What you are describing in terms of God knowing all "possible" endings is essentially Molinism, which, in my opinion, is open theism disguised by language that appears to protect God's omniscience. Even if God knows all possible ends, in the end, he either knows which possibility will become actual, or he doesn't; so the problem is not averted by this philosophical construction, in my view.

That was no answer. I am tired of labels that imply heresy. No one knows. I am in agreement with Nothingisimpossible. As I read the Scriptures it seems to me that omniscience is only in the part of the Trinity we call the Father. The Son said he did nothing but what the Father showed him, and that only the Father knows the time of the end. He also said that the Spirit says nothing but what the Son says. So in 2/3rds of the Trinity they are not omniscient. This why statements like in the Prophets say, "this never entered my mind." And the omniscience that the Father has is like the master chess player that knows all possible outcomes. We still have free will and the events of a fallen world occur because of the fall, not because of God.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[TaylorSexton]

That was no answer.

Just my viewpoint, friend; I made no attempt to give a fleshed-out answer. There is no reason to get salty over that.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[AlexDTX]

Just my viewpoint, friend; I made no attempt to give a fleshed-out answer. There is no reason to get salty over that.

The salt is for the implied heresy. When we face God in judgment there are only 2 things that will matter to Him. Did we know his Son and did we feed Him? The ins and outs of how God does what He does and his internal make up is a non issue to Him. Please forgive my annoyance towards you, for, in truth, it is frustration at all the scholars who trot out heresy statements as if that is the final word. No one knows but God these many theological matters that are called heresy by different groups of men called in "councils." I am sorry if I was harsh towards you. It is a general frustration of the Authority Fallacy frequently played. And, yes, I understand the authority fallacy refers to authorities that are no authorities at all. But when it comes to God, He is the only authority. All of mankind is limited in our understandings.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[TaylorSexton]

The salt is for the implied heresy.

Heresy is by nature an explicit charge, of which I made not so much as even a hint. The only mention of heresy is only what was placed there by your own reading between the lines, which I find to be quite unfair for you to do to me—or anyone else, for that matter. I hope you do not have a habit of going around accosting and accusing people for things which you insert into their own words; if so, I would suggest you pray and strive for charity in the future, and focus on Christian dialogue as opposed to uncritical and hasty lambasting.

My purpose in answering the OP was merely to give my sincere thoughts; I made no accusation of heresy, or even implied it. That, as well as the utterly baffling accusation of the authority fallacy (Where did I do that, again?) was supplied by you; and, as far as I can tell, you remain unique within this thread. And, since you are so adamant about appealing only to God as the authority, did you not sense in my post that that is where I was trying to direct the question, especially with my final appeal to look to Scripture? If not, then perhaps you should read what you are responding to before responding, especially if you plan on creating offense out of utter thin air.

 

[RaymondG]

Interesting post...... I Asked God these questions before......and He answered:

Asked me where was I when He laid the foundations of the earth. Then He told me to go fish out a whale from the sea with a fishing rod/hook and then come back.....

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[AlexDTX]

If not, then perhaps you should read what you are responding to before responding, especially if you plan on creating offense out of utter thin air.

.
I offered my apology and asked for your forgiveness. Now you get over it.

Please forgive my annoyance towards you, for, in truth, it is frustration at all the scholars who trot out heresy statements as if that is the final word.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

So recently in a post in the theology section someone had asked "Why does God let people be born who He knows go to hell?" or something along those lines. I had said He knows all how we think He does. To which many thought I was being unbiblical in my views.

So lets see what you think. So when we say "God knows when you will die and where you will go!" does that sound to confusing? If He knows this before you were born then you would not really have free will at all since your scripted to die at a certain point and scripted to go to heaven or hell. Which makes no sense.

So my view is yes, He does know everything. He knows how we die and where we go. BUT... He sees all possible endings. Not just one that is "going" to happen. For example a man is driving down the road and is behind someone slow. The green light will be turning red soon. So he decides to be patient and stay behind the guy even though it means being at a red light. So as he stops another man in the left land speeds up to go around you and goes through the light and gets t-boned by a car. Now if this guy had have not stopped and went around him to go through the intersection, he himself would have been t-boned.

This is what I mean by God sees every path we can possible take. Thus in terms of free will, we end up choosing our paths. If we go to hell its because of paths we took to get there. True, God sens you to hell or heaven. But will still "drive the car" to get to either place in life. Just as with death. If I decided to jump off a cliff does that mean God knew its what I would do since birth? No. It means its a decision I made. Where as if I hadn't maybe I'd due of old age, or cancer or something else. Again He can see all paths.

So what do you think? Is our life pointlessly scripted without free will since He knows ONE and only one way we will die and where we will go? Or does He see all endings for us and we more or less choose those paths?

If you are for the first one would you care to expand on how it makes sense given we have free will and He says He will not take that away? Because it biblicaly and logically makes no sense. Especially considering the bible talks about many things that would make it sound like God doesn't want us going down certain paths. Such as encouraging us. Or giving us the Holy Spirit to guide us. Its why He is happy when we do some things and sad when we do others. None of that would be mentioned if He knew everyone had a predestined future that they could not avoid.

God knows all things...Acts 15:18, Acts 17:26-28, Psalm 139, Job 21:22, Isaiah 46:10, 2 Kings 8:10, John 1:47-48, John 2:24-25

God knows His creation and the outcome of all things.
He knows what is in man.
All of us are vessels, some be for godly use and others will be for common use,
we decide our fate...accept Jesus as Lord and Savior or reject Him.
God skillfully works out His Plan using whatever vessels that are at hand...God
has used birds to feed his prophet, closed the mouth of lions, He's also used those who are pagans to show His sovereignty...
Pharaoh in Exodus; book of Daniel- King Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus.

God's Word speaks of His closeness to His children in revealing His "emotions" in scripture...displeased(2 Samuel 11:27), anger(Romans 1:8), joy(Jeremiah 32:41),
compassion (2 Chronicles 30:9) etc.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I offered my apology and asked for your forgiveness. Now you get over it.

Case in point...

It is inconceivable to me that a truly remorseful individual would utter the phrase, "Now you get over it," to the one towards whom is supposedly apologetic.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Yes god knows when we are going to die and where, he knows the second and hour.
If he didn't then he wouldn't be omniscient

In this case it is kind of black and white.

God is either too weak to save us or he is not...

And the word says he isn't. He is almighty and all powerful.... But people don't understand that he is also Sovereign....meaning..this is Gods world not ours...God loves people we never could..

I don't know why God allows things to happen the way they do but it's not my problem to worry about, that's a question that doesn't have an answer really..except..who could possibly know the mind of God? No one...

But god made a way for us to escape death and destruction so we have to accept the way he made out for us. Simple.

And try not to think about the rest, just focus on God .