Did you read my thread that I mentioned? It explains all of this clearly, I think.
Bottom line is that you have free-will, and God knows all, but doesn't create anyone with the intent/knowledge that they will go to Hell.
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Does God know/see the future?
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Did you read my thread that I mentioned? It explains all of this clearly, I think.
Bottom line is that you have free-will, and God knows all, but doesn't create anyone with the intent/knowledge that they will go to Hell.
I read the thread. I don't see how it answers my question. If God knows all, then how can He not know someone He created is going to hell?
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Because when He created all souls, He was still in the dimension of "Eternal Now"
There is no "pre" knowledge in an Eternal Now. Time exists in our space, not His.
There is no "pre" knowledge in an Eternal Now. Time exists in our space, not His.
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If God existed in the Eternal Now (or whatever) He should have been able to see all of creation from beginning to end, right? It wouldn't be pre-knowledge He had, but it would be all-knowledge. So, He must have known the fate of every soul He created. And it should certainly be within His power to construct a universe where no one must suffer for eternity, wouldn't you say? But according to Christianity, He did not do that. Why?
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Blessed-one
a long journey ahead
what i was saying was once we've been born into the world, we can choose to sin or not... but as our nature pulls at us, it's harder to not to sin.
well, we do get a choice of whether to reject Him or accept Him. Emphasis on choice:
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature -have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
well, we do get a choice of whether to reject Him or accept Him. Emphasis on choice:
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature -have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
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We do not have a choice not to sin. If we did, we could get to heaven without Jesus. Jesus said that no one gets to the father except through Him. Therefore, we must sin. We have no choice.
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Blessed-one
a long journey ahead
hello? we can choose not to sin, with the help of Jesus. Of course it's hard, but at least u tried!
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LouisBooth
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I am not saying it is hard not to sin. I am saying it is impossible not to sin. Our existence is sinful, even if we do nothing. It is irrelevant how hard you try. There are no points for trying.
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hey doc,
i really want to do more research into this to get a better answer to you. i am also curious for my own knowledge.
for starters, maybe this would help if you are interested. its a debate between bill craig and atheist ray bradley (i wonder if we are related...how shameful, and atheist apologist for a relative!
) on "a loving God would never torture people in hell."
btw-
saying this in love of course, but i think the entire premise that God "doesn't know" is ridiculous. He knows everything. if He didn't, He wouldn't be God. not to mention the fact that the idea obviously contradicts scripture.
i really want to do more research into this to get a better answer to you. i am also curious for my own knowledge.
for starters, maybe this would help if you are interested. its a debate between bill craig and atheist ray bradley (i wonder if we are related...how shameful, and atheist apologist for a relative!
) on "a loving God would never torture people in hell."btw-
saying this in love of course, but i think the entire premise that God "doesn't know" is ridiculous. He knows everything. if He didn't, He wouldn't be God. not to mention the fact that the idea obviously contradicts scripture.
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I'm not sure why you might think I'd take this the wrong way, because I agree. I've been sort of scoffing myself at the notion that God doesn't know.
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hey doc,
listen, i was checking out this "rate the member" thing, i went to give you a "good rating" but i kept hitting my scroll thing on my mouse and ended up giving you a bad one. i gave you two good ones just to make up for it.
not that it is any sort of big deal at all
listen, i was checking out this "rate the member" thing, i went to give you a "good rating" but i kept hitting my scroll thing on my mouse and ended up giving you a bad one. i gave you two good ones just to make up for it.
not that it is any sort of big deal at all
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ya, didn't mean to give that impression. just wanted to say that i agree with you. i just don't the people on this board that believe that to think that i am being mean or condescending.
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blessed-one,
i think you are misunderstanding doc's question. he is not arguing against the justice of sending one to hell because they freely chose to not accept Christ. He is not questioning a person's free will. He is asking "Why would God CREATE someone that he KNEW would choose to Go to Hell?"
i think you are misunderstanding doc's question. he is not arguing against the justice of sending one to hell because they freely chose to not accept Christ. He is not questioning a person's free will. He is asking "Why would God CREATE someone that he KNEW would choose to Go to Hell?"
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Blessed-one
a long journey ahead
we know that God knows everything, but at the same time, He doesn't, as it is our choice, meaning He doesn't know till we've made our choices.
s0uljah would be able to explain it better, his idea even baffles me,
s0uljah would be able to explain it better, his idea even baffles me,
if there was a way out of a desperate situation, even though it's a really hard way that's going to take a vast amount of energy and time. would you do it?
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Wrong. God creates everything "good." We sin through OUR OWN FAULTS.
No, you are still thinking in terms of linear time. Besides, even if He knews the future, that doesn't mean that He caused the future. Thats the dynamic nature of free-will.
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