Does God hate people??

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Gabriel

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Originally posted by Baylor_SFL
I don't believe that God sends people to hell. They choose hell for themeselves. It's a choice that people make. Will a person choose to follow their sinful ways and turn away from God? or will they turn to God, accept the sacrifice that Jesus has made for him and believe that He has given himself--and lives again? It's all about the choice that one makes.

God's love is unconditional. The only unforgivable sin is the sin of turning against God (refusing God's love).

Perhaps you should rewad this thread from the beginning and look up some of the scripture references. When God hates someone, He withholds His saving grace. That is sending them to hell. The bible tells us that God does hate some people. If you believe that the bible is God's word, how can you believe something that is contrary to it?
 
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I don't see having to suffer consequenses for our own decisions as hate on God's part. Through scripture we are clearly told that we have a choice to choose what God would want from us in order to have the hope of salvation. We are also told that if we chose not God, then we do not have to spend eternity in God's presence. Thrught out or life here on earth there are consequences for our actions, even when as childeren we disobey and there is punishment and none of it has to do with hate.
 
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Blackhawk

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Originally posted by Baylor_SFL
I don't believe that God sends people to hell. They choose hell for themeselves. It's a choice that people make. Will a person choose to follow their sinful ways and turn away from God? or will they turn to God, accept the sacrifice that Jesus has made for him and believe that He has given himself--and lives again? It's all about the choice that one makes.

God's love is unconditional. The only unforgivable sin is the sin of turning against God (refusing God's love).

Okay i agree and disagree with your statment here.  Yes, going ot hell or heaven really is our choice.  We choose to go to hell and live without God or have faith and go to heaven.  This is true.  however we can't make a choice for God unless god comes to us first.  This is clear in Romans.  However Romans is also clear that if God does come to us that we then can choose Him and that is the point of salvation. That is when we choose to have faith in Him.  Neither of thse statements are really debatable because I believe Romans makes them very clear. 

now where all the cnfusion comes is how do we choose God?  We know God has to come to us but is it that God comes to us all and just give us a choice either way at that time?  Or does God really only come to some in a special way that makes it so that we will choose Him everytime?  But in both sets of circumstances we choose to have faith or we choose to go to hell.  The question is really how does God get us totally depraved people to a point of salvation?  Another question that is related but important is is our choosing to have faith a work if not 100% guaranteed through a total regeneration by God?  These to me a re legitimate questions but not do we choose to have faith or not because we clearly do choose. 
 
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Blackhawk

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Now as far as hate in the Bible and especially in the OT I thinkmany have things confused. See hate and love in the OT is not an emotion. The Bible sayong that God hated Esau was not like me saying I hate Sadaam Hussein. no it is jsut that He chose to love Jacob or use Him in His plan and hate Esau or not use Him in His plan. God chose to use Jacob as the way the line of His people and Christ would come.

Also love does not mean that one has to always forgive another. God loves us but that does not mean that He can't send ones He loves to hell. God is a complex being and can't be reduced to just love in the way we see it today. Like Andrew said God is also just and righteouss. He made a plan that involves pament for sin. He still loves the ones going ot hell but will let them go there if they so choose. Now He might not love them in a Biblial understanding of love but in our modern thinking of what love is I feel the bible is clear that He definitely loves all.
 
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Athlon4all

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The LORD is Holy and Just. He cannot tolerate Sin in his presence. This is why anyone who defiled the Temple/Tabernacle were killed.

The LORD also however is the Just Judge. He is the Judge of the world. If he were to turn His head from the sin, and not judge it, He would not be the Just Judge. He has given those who sinned more chances than any man would give, in love, to be redeemed. He gave Sodom and Gommorah chances, he gave all those who were lost pre-Jesus to be involved in the OT sacrifical system. He gives every man today the witness of the Holy Spirit to come to Jesus, and they reject it (see John 16:7-11). His Holiness and Just Judgship is what balances his Love. He does hate some yes, but that is after they have rebeleed so greatly against Him. Our God is truly Awesome!!!!
 
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john14_20

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OK, super quick question for Athlon4all.

You say that, "He gives every man today the witness of the Holy Spirit to come to Jesus, and they reject it (see John 16:7-11). "

How does He give witness to people who don't have the chance to hear, either by culture or age?

Thanks and blessings, Pete.
 
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Gabriel

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Originally posted by john14_20
OK, super quick question for Athlon4all.

You say that, "He gives every man today the witness of the Holy Spirit to come to Jesus, and they reject it (see John 16:7-11). "

How does He give witness to people who don't have the chance to hear, either by culture or age?

Thanks and blessings, Pete.

If I may;
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

I would disagree with this:
He does hate some yes, but that is after they have rebeleed so greatly against Him.

Because God's word says this:
Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." That seems pretty clear. Is it because Esau was evil? Let's see. Romans 9:11&12 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls) it was said to her(Rebecca), "The older shall serve the younger."
 
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Athlon4all

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Romans 1:18-21 says it all as Gabriel quoted. Now, there is something still for going to those areas that have never heard from a person the Gospel. We still have the great commission to "preach the gospel to every creature" and while the Bible does say "how shall they hear without a creature" each human being has the witness of the Holy Spirit of the LORD and they reject it.
 
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Andrew

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If God hates pagans for their sins and ungodliness, why did He in his great love, send his one and only Son into the world to die for such ungodly people? Does not the Word say that He first loved us, while we were yet sinners? How much more, now that Christ has borne the sins of the world and given us a ministry of reconciliation with God.

God certainly does not hate anyone for God is love and Christ has suffered the consequences of our sins. The chatisement that brought us peace was laid upon him.

Please interpret the scriptures (esp OT ones) in light of what Christ has accomplished on the cross.
 
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john14_20

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Hi Athlon - a further question.

You write, "and while the Bible does say "how shall they hear without a creature" each human being has the witness of the Holy Spirit of the LORD and they reject it."

This seems to say that you think that the Bible says that you cannot know unless womeone witnesses to you, yet at the same time you seem to say that everybody is witnessed to by the Holy Spirit and that's enough. Which one is it?

Further, are you suggesting that a baby or a mentally chal;lenged person has the capacity to comprehend this witness of the Spirit, and then reject it?

 

Blessings in Christ, Pete.

 
 
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john14_20

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Hi new2calvin, you ask, "How are you sure Christ died for the WHOLE world?"

JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

JN 4:42 "They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

JN 6:32 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

JN 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

JN 12:47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it

JN 17:20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

RO 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men

RO 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all1 TI 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time

Just the beginning.....

Blessings, Pete.
 
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john14_20

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Hi new2calvin - I assume you view the elect as a a smallish group of people pre-destined by God unto salvation. I view the elect differently, and in fact the whole election / pre-destination thing differently. As you have already guessed, I am not a calvanist, but you may be surprised to know that I am not Arminian either. I subscribe to Karl Barth's Christocentric model here. There is only one elect man - Jesus Christ. Now, in Christ, God has gathered together the ENTIRE human race. In this one Man, the world as a corporate body, is encased. This was foreshadowed in the Old Testament. Because of this, the election / pre-destination of Christ necessarily includes within it the election of humanity.
 
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Received

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God cannot hate intrinsically. The wrath of God is merely the reflected wrath that man has for God given back through punishment. Hate is an evil in itself, though it can be used to destroy itself if used as a means to an end (we hate evil, sin, etc.). Before time was, God never had hate within His character. So in effect, it is not God 'hating' people as we have the idea of hating. His is the perfect return, done through sorrow; sorrows "God distributes in His anger" (Job 21:17). Man's is the emotional and egocentric hate that arises from selfish rage, though there are instances where earthly fathers use the same 'hate' as the heavenly Father.

blessings,

John
 
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