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Featured Does God forget people who end up in Hell?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Far Side Of the Moon, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. ChristaLife

    ChristaLife New Member

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    Leviticus 6:12-13 King James Version (KJV)

    12 And the fire upon the altar shall be burning in it; it shall not be put out: and the priest shall burn wood on it every morning, and lay the burnt offering in order upon it; and he shall burn thereon the fat of the peace offerings.

    13 The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.

    There is something unto God in a burning fire. That is why hell will remain for ever. The fire will return something unto God. The bible says if you remove you bed to hell there you will find me. Fire is nothing to God but it is everything to the creations of God .

    Hebrews 12:25-29 King James Version (KJV)
    25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

    26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

    27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

    28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

    29 For our God is a consuming fire.

    Then come the rising smoke. That is the worship . EVERY CREATION WILL WORSHIP GOD. Better to do it in freedom not under a torment.
     
  2. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    1. No, it was just an example that the Lord has power to destroy body and soul anywhere, where humans only have power to destroy the body. In the grave while we live in heaven anywhere.

    2. Yes Luke does say that. I did not know we were speaking of Luke 12:5. Since this is a different story here is my answer for this verse.
    4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
    5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    We are not to fear the man who can destroy the body and has no more power. But we are to fear him who after killing you has power to cast you into Hell(The figurative place for the dead after the resurrection/judgment) 1067. geenna(used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment) this is the third meaning of the word Geenna. Geenna is a figurative place of punishment(in one of it's meanings)(whenever the word is used in this sense it is not to be taken as a literal representation of what happens after death/at the time of death) and since we know that hell(the grave) is cast into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:14). Then there are only two options
    A. The Lord casts you into the grave(Hell) and the then casts the grave(hell) into the lake of fire. (Accurate representation)
    B. Hell is the lake of Fire and he casts the lake of fire into itself.( Which makes no sense at all)

    So we see from this verse that what they are being cast into after death is the Lake of fire. But this is only being used in a figurative not a literal sense. To show we are not immediately sent to be tormented after death in the grave(Hell:Sheol).
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  3. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Nobody says they will not be punished nor suffer!! The bible is clear that they will. There is a hell, it is a matter of how long. You want it to last forever--the bible indicates it is until they have met their judgement, and then they are consumed. Sin and sinner is put down permanently. As long as there is a sin, there is sin. There is no sin in the new earth.

    Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    In other words---the unrepentant sinner that steals $5.00 is not going to get the same sentence of burning forever as someone who stole millions. God is just. They will endure pain and punishment for as long as God has determined their works require.
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    You can't be suffering torment unless you are alive to feel it. Eternal life is for the saved only. The lost have the 2nd death, permanent death.
     
  5. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    James 2:10-13
    10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

    Every soul that sins is guilty of the Whole law of Liberty. All sins are equal and have the same punishment in the lake of fire. How they suffer on earth for each sin is a different matter.
     
  6. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Exactly sister, the eternal soul of the wicked suffers an eternal torment which is called the second death. This is a spiritual death, not a physical one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  7. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Yes they do. Shall I find the posts?
    I am not the one determining the punishment nor length.
    Yes.
    Never said God is not just.
     
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    He doesn't resist trying to have/help them.

    Just like you would not resist trying to save someone who was evaporated in a nuclear explosion...

    No effort at all involved, no thought at all involved as if ever possible to be doing anything for them - there is nothing to do for them, nothing even ever thought of, nothing possible for them, not even by Yahweh the Creator of all Life.
     
  9. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    That is sister. It is a physical death, not a spiritual one. There is no eternal soul. God ONLY has immortality.

    1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Adam and Eve were never immortal---they were created to have immortality--however

    Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    Without access to the tree of life, they were mortal. And Jesus made it clear:
    Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
     
  10. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
    34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    The context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

    Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

    "They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/why-affirm-belief-in-hell/4967/12

    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Generally capital punishment under Moses' law was by stoning. Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

    Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
  11. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about that sister.
    1. The Body is destroyed by fire, all flesh and blood is destroyed by fire at the Lord's coming.

    The death spoken of here is not a physical one since the body is destroyed at Christ's coming(Matthew 24:29-31; Micah 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17, 26:21, 2:9-22; Zephaniah 1:18,2:2,3:8,1:2-3; Haggai 2:6-7; Malachi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 1 Thess 1:7-9; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9). So all that is left is the spirit/soul, since it's not physical there is only one option left by the definition of the word. Spiritual death.

    2288 thanatos
    death, physical or spiritual.


    2. The body of Flesh contains the Spirit/soul within us that is what lives on and sleeps when we die.(Matt 9:24, Mark 5:39, Luke 8:52-53, 1 Kings 2:10, Acts 7:60, 1 Cor 15:6, John 5:28-29, Job 7:21, Job 14:10, Daniel 12:2, 1 Thessalonians 4:13).

    That is why Christ became a quickening spirit after his death and ministered to the spirits/Souls who were still in hell(1 Peter 3:18-20). There is a natural body and spiritual body.
    When we are resurrected on the day of Judgment we will all be changed. 1 Cor 15:52
    Some ask how the dead are raised and in what body. 1 Cor 15:35
    Paul says they are fools to ask, he says that which we sow in the flesh must be quickened. 1 Cor 15:35
    We are sown in a natural body(corruption). 1 Cor 15:44,43
    And we are raised in a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:44
    That which comes first is the natural body of Flesh. 1 Cor 15:46-48
    That which comes second is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:46,44-45
    We are not raised in corruption. 1 Cor 15:43,50,53-54
    But in incorruption. 1 Cor 15:42-46,52-54
    There are bodies both terrestrial and celestial. 1 Cor 15:40
    We will be raised as celestial beings, quickening spirits. 1 Cor 15:42,44-46

    We will be raised quickening spirits on the day of Judment not flesh and blood. But spiritual beings, just as we are when we die.

    3. Yes YHWH has the ability to destroy both body and soul, he can do that anywhere at any time. It does not say that he will destroy the body and soul, Christ only says this figuratively not literally as if that is what YHWH will do. Just what can do.
     
  12. ChristaLife

    ChristaLife New Member

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    We are made of Flesh and the spirit (Soul) The bible says at time of death The body goes into the grave but the spirit of man goes up. Goes up towards God to be reserved until the day of Judgement
    Ecclesiastes 3:21 King James Version (KJV)
    21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
    The spirit of animals dissipates into the earth. they are forgotten for ever and never counted.
    the body that goes into the grave is not done away with. the souls an the body will be rejoined together for judgement.

    Matthew 27:52 King James Version (KJV)
    52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

    What the bible say is that flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. However we will first of all come out of the grave as flesh and blood . Then because the saint are already saved there will no more condemnation so in the air on the way to heaven the saints will be changed and their body will be translated into the heavenly bodies. That will be the real beginning of the eternal life. You have eternal life from the time of salvation but you get to feel it at the time of your resurrection.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


    The sinners will also rise up ( resurrect) but they are condemned already and will not be translated into new bodies but will be sent to hell in the human bodies with all its abilities to feel pain and torments.

    Acts 24:15 King James Version (KJV)
    15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

    John 5:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



     
  13. ChristaLife

    ChristaLife New Member

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    The bodies are not destroyed permanently. All souls or all human will resurrect in this physical bodies for judgement.
    Eternal death or second death,only means eternal SEPARATION FROM GOD. NO MORE MERCY NO MORE FORGIVENESS JUST ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.

    John 5:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


    Revelation 20:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.


     
  14. ChristaLife

    ChristaLife New Member

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    1 Corinthians 15:47-58 King James Version (KJV)
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
     
  15. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    Gen_6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
    Gen_7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
    Gen_7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
    Job_33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

    It is the same breath of life that God breathed into ALL land creatures that brought them life. Without that breath in them---they have no life. With that breath, Adam became a living soul. That breath goes back to God who gave it--It is His power.

    1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Co 15:51
    Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    All the saved that have died will rise first--The dead in Christ are resurrected first thing on His return----and are immediately changed. And the saved that are alive at His coming are also immediately changed into incorruptible.

    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Then we all ascend together.

    The wicked dead, remain dead. The wicked that are alive, are killed with the brightness of His coming.
    They remain dead until after the 1000 years.

    Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


    Only the saved are at that 1st resurrection. The wicked are resurrected after the 1000 years to face judgment. And to face the 2nd death, which is their final destruction. Yes, all the dead are resurrected--but at vastly different times.
     
  16. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Brother, all flesh is destroyed and everyone are raised in their spiritual bodies. That is why are all changed in the twinkling of an eye from corruptible(flesh) to incorruptible(spirit) regardless of whether or not we are dead.

    1. No man has ascend into heaven except for Lord who came from it(John 3:3) those who sleep sleep in the grave not heaven(Matt 9:24, Mark 5:39, Luke 8:52-53, 1 Kings 2:10, Acts 7:60, 1 Cor 15:6, John 5:28-29, Job 7:21, Job 14:10, Daniel 12:2, 1 Thessalonians 4:13; Acts 2:27-31, 1 Peter 3:18-19, 2 Peter 2:4, Psalm 16:10, Revelation 20:13-14 ). When the dead are given up at the day of Judgement they are given up from the grave and from the sea not from the sky.
    Revelation 20:13

    2. They arose in the flesh just as Christ and the Apostles raised the dead multiple times, but everyone that was raised up from death during that time(including those saints from the grave) all died again.

    3. Everyone is transformed in a moment from Carnal to spiritual at the Lord's coming
    When we are resurrected on the day of Judgment we will all be changed. 1 Cor 15:52
    Some ask how the dead are raised and in what body. 1 Cor 15:35
    Paul says they are fools to ask, he says that which we sow in the flesh must be quickened. 1 Cor 15:35
    We are sown in a natural body(corruption). 1 Cor 15:44,43
    And we are raised in a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:44
    That which comes first is the natural body of Flesh. 1 Cor 15:46-48
    That which comes second is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:46,44-45
    We are not raised in corruption. 1 Cor 15:43,50,53-54
    But in incorruption. 1 Cor 15:42-46,52-54
    There are bodies both terrestrial and celestial. 1 Cor 15:40
    We will be raised as celestial beings, quickening spirits. 1 Cor 15:42,44-46

    When all flesh and earthly things are destroyed by fire(Matthew 24:29-31; Micah 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17, 26:21, 2:9-22; Zephaniah 1:18,2:2,3:8,1:2-3; Haggai 2:6-7; Malachi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 1 Thess 1:7-9; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9)

    4. I agree all who are dead will be raised on the day of Judgment.
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    at 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
    Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
    Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
    Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
    Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
    Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
    Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

    There is nothing in this passage that indicates Jesus should not be taken literally.
    If the saved are already with God, they have no need to have their physical bodies resurrected just to have them become spiritual bodies again which they already are---????---makes no sense to me.

    The saved dead will be resurrected from their sleep. They will be immediately changed into their incorruptible bodies. The living saved will also be immediately changed and we all go to the 1000 year reign with Jesus. The wicked dead remain dead--see post #135.
    Nobody is with Jesus now, except those that were translated, and Moses who was resurrected after his death. Not even David has ascended.
    Act_2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

    Perhaps those that were raised at the death of Jesus

    Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    It doesn't say what happened to them, I they ascended or stayed and died again.

    1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    This is talking about back in the time of Noah.
     
  18. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    1. It says he has the ability to destroy both body and soul in hell, it doesn't say that he will. I have the ability to jump off a 30 story building it doesn't mean I will, only that I can.

    2. The dead sleep in Hell(the grave) not in heaven. I don't know where you got that idea. No man is raised until either the first or the second resurrection. Other than that all the dead since the time of the beginning still sleep.

    The next point I would like to address is when the wicked will arise all the wicked that were already dead are resurrected AFTER the heavens and earth are destroyed by fire. This is the second resurrection for everyone who was alive at the time of the Lord's coming, and for the dead that had no part in the first resurrection.


    The soul(of the people that have died) must instead rest in the grave(Hell-Sheol) until either the first or the second resurrection. The righteous becoming part of the New heaven and New earth that is created.(Revelation 21:1-3)

    There are two resurrections, the first for those who were killed for Christ.

    Revelation 20:4-6

    And the second for the rest of the dead and those that were alive at the destruction of the heavens and the earth by fire at Christ's coming.

    1 Thess 4:13-17
    Acts 7:59-60
    1 Corinthians 15:6
    1 Corinthians 15:18-23
    Revelation 20:11-15



    3. 1 Peter 3:18-19 is speaking of when Christ died on the cross and was dead those 39 hours. It was not heaven that he went to first but Hell as a quickening spirit, to minister to those spirits who were in prison and give them a chance to accept or deny him(since they did not have that chance in life).
    1 Peter 3:18-19
    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    Christ was not put to death on the cross before the flood, I honestly cannot say where you got that from.
    Ephesians 4:9-10
    9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
     
  19. ChristaLife

    ChristaLife New Member

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    Hi Bro I think you are talking about Christians. They are the ones that will put on incorruptible bodies because corruptible bodies (Flesh and Blood ) can not inherit incorruption.

    The passage also say not all will be dead at the time so of all the humans that will be alive the saints among them will be changed.

    The beginning says BRETHREN THEN HE SAID WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED: NOT EVERY ONE AS IN ALL HUMANS BUT ONLY THE SAINTS.

    1 Corinthians 15:50-53 King James Version (KJV)
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


    It then concluded with an encouragement for the saints. CHRIST CALLED US MY BELOVED.

    1 Corinthians 15:58 King James Version (KJV)
    58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    HELL IS CORRUPTION SO THOSE GOING TO HELL WILL NOT BE CHANGED . There is no inheritance in HELL but punishment.
    1 Corinthians 15:50-53 King James Version (KJV)
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
     
  20. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is the literal translation from a Greek-English Interlinear:

    http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-11.htm

    And another more literal translation than yours:

    Young's Literal Translation
    and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

    Scripture also speaks of night being "no more". So can "day and night" be forever?

    For 12 arguments re "ages of ages" ending, see posts 130 & 131 @

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...hilationsim-vs-eternal-torment.8019864/page-7

    This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

    Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

    Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

    12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

    All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

    Lk.12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    This sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:

    Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

    10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Generally capital punishment under Moses' law was by stoning. Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

    Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

    Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
    34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

    Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

    "They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/why-affirm-belief-in-hell/4967/12

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

    Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

    “In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

    Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

    Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

    "He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

    For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
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