Does God Feel Like Me?

LovebirdsFlying

My husband drew this cartoon of me.
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I have at times made use of the phrase, "Scripture-grenades." It's when people are hurling verses at each other like weapons in an endless I'm-right-and-you're-wrong argument. "The Bible says THIS!" *whistling sound followed by explosion* "No, it says THIS!" *more of the same, ad infinitum.*

As a person with PTSD from childhood abuse, I recall many times I was hammered with "children, obey your parents," used as a means to control me. If I pointed out "parents, provoke not your children," or observed that what I was being told to do was itself against the Bible ("Hey, twelve-year-old, tell the ticket taker you're eleven, so we won't have to pay full price for you.") I would be at best accused of not having a true understanding of what that verse really means. I would at worst be slapped and called a smart-aleck kid who needs to learn to mind her elders.

I no longer associate with people who have that type of attitude. As for debates on points of doctrine, I apply Titus 3:9 and 2 Timothy 2:23. Just don't engage in the argument. Romans 14:5 says everyone should be fully convinced in his/her own mind. It doesn't say anything about convincing others. Acts 17:11 sets the example of searching the Scriptures for ourselves rather than relying on what someone else tells us it says, and Philippians 2:12 further illustrates that it's up to the individual.
 
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toLiJC

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I do agree that we cannot put up with those who seek to cause strife or discord, but this would be the type of talk that is poisonous and hurtful and leads to sin and not righteousness. But we also have to recognize that believers do have the right to rebuke other believers by the Word of God so as to correct them. This is so as to lead them into the path of righteousness and to overcome sin. We have to be aware of the difference between the two and not condemn the preaching of God's Word that can lead men to repent of their evil beliefs and sins.

As for your belief that fornication and prostitution are not serious sins: This would be like saying murdering innocent children is not wrong. First, your moral compass should tell you these things are wrong. Second, God's Word clearly condemns these things. I should not even have to list the verses for you to tell you that these sins are condemned in the Bible and that they will have dire consequences for one's soul after they die (if they do not repent of such sins). Just research at least 5-10 articles on fornication and prostitution from Christians and pray about it before you read the verses. But to let you know, I am speechless at your not knowing that such things are not serious sins. From my life experience and walk with the Lord, it is crazy to not understand something so basic.


...

you again twist what i said?!, i just said that the problem is spiritual rather than physical, moreover, not only according to the perspective from which the true God sees (the) things, but also according to the perfect truth such as it is, ever was and will always be, of course the prostitution and fornication have been problematic, but evil will not be fully and permanently removed if spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is not fully and permanently removed, and i am sorry to say, but someday we may, God forbid, also find (out) that even our own sons and daughters have become homosexuals and prostitutes if things continue to take this turn/course, because what if we remove all sexual irregularities but without removing spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness which is the cause and source of all other evils and iniquities?!, which is why Jesus as well as each of His true disciples had principally worked for removal of all spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness from humankind/the world, or to put it another way, and as i said above, i mean(t) that the order of things is important from the perspective of effectiveness and righteousness, because if we don't understand things from the right viewpoint, we can thus even hurt people instead of helping them...

the same applies to the treatment between the brothers in the church, if we are too unsparing, our brother can turn out to be hurt, regardless of how we (will) call that our treatment toward them...

Blessings
 
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you again twist what i said?!, i just said that the problem is spiritual rather than physical, moreover, not only according to the perspective from which the true God sees (the) things, but also according to the perfect truth such as it is, ever was and will always be, of course the prostitution and fornication have been problematic, but evil will not be fully and permanently removed if spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is not fully and permanently removed, and i am sorry to say, but someday we may, God forbid, also find (out) that even our own sons and daughters have become homosexuals and prostitutes if things continue to take this turn/course, because what if we remove all sexual irregularities but without removing spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness which is the cause and source of all other evils and iniquities?!, which is why Jesus as well as each of His true disciples had principally worked for removal of all spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness from humankind/the world, or to put it another way, and as i said above, i mean(t) that the order of things is important from the perspective of effectiveness and righteousness, because if we don't understand things from the right viewpoint, we can thus even hurt people instead of helping them...

the same applies to the treatment between the brothers in the church, if we are too unsparing, our brother can turn out to be hurt, regardless of how we (will) call that our treatment toward them...

Blessings

You said,

"Witchcraft is certainly a sin, prostitution is debatable, because there have been people turning out to be victims of prostitution rather than causers/authors of a crime; fornication is also debatable, because the biblical version of this word chiefly means spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness...." ~ Quote by toLiJC.​

You are saying fornciation and prostitution are debatable in being sins by this statement above.

Yes?
Or no?

You also said drug use is debateable that it is a sin, too.
Granted, I am not talking about legal medical prescriptions for a certain condition that is life threatening and damaging to one's health but I am talking about taking drugs for social reasons so that one's mind is not sober and clear thinking anymore.


...
 
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I have at times made use of the phrase, "Scripture-grenades." It's when people are hurling verses at each other like weapons in an endless I'm-right-and-you're-wrong argument. "The Bible says THIS!" *whistling sound followed by explosion* "No, it says THIS!" *more of the same, ad infinitum.*

Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope your day is going well.

Anyways, I personally have a different take on this from my experience and walk with God. I believe there are times that when folks argue it is wrong. However, I believe there are other times that when a Christian argues, he is standing up for what is good and right within the Bible so as to lead men away from sin (out fear of the destruction of their own soul) and into the arms of God's love.

For it is written...

"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (Jude 1:23).​

For we are in a spiritual war and our main weapon is the Word of God. For Scripture says,

"...Take... the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17).

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit," (Hebrews 4:12).​

And we are to contend for the faith.

"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." (Jude 1:3).

16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

For this a spiritual war.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Ephesians 6:12).​

And we are told to preach the Word and and reprove, rebuke, and exhort other Christians.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Timothy 4:2).​

Even Jesus used the Word of God (Scripture) to defeat the devil.

"6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." (Matthew 4:6-7).​

For again, we are in a spiritual war.

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:17).​

Lovebirdsflying said:
As a person with PTSD from childhood abuse, I recall many times I was hammered with "children, obey your parents," used as a means to control me. If I pointed out "parents, provoke not your children," or observed that what I was being told to do was itself against the Bible ("Hey, twelve-year-old, tell the ticket taker you're eleven, so we won't have to pay full price for you.") I would be at best accused of not having a true understanding of what that verse really means. I would at worst be slapped and called a smart-aleck kid who needs to learn to mind her elders.

I am deeply sorry that you had to go thru such a thing in your life. I pray the love and peace of our Lord will help you to let go of this thing in the past (if you haven't let it go). If it is any comfort, I can relate to the angry and overly judgmental parental figures and bosses I had while I was growing up. I can relate to how I was mistreated by even children of my own age because I used to be really fat while growing up. I can say I was fortunate that it was mostly yelling towards me on my end of the experience (with only one moment where I was beat up). But it was still not good. It made me say to myself that I will never treat anyone like that. I will not be unfair with others. I found an escape for myself in the realm of comic books and movies as a child (But have put those things out of my life now for Jesus Christ). When I grew older, I realized that it is good to stand up for what is right and good and to even have a righteous anger like Jesus. But I also realized we have to be careful not to get mad to quickly or to be provoked easily. Jesus said we are to return good for any evil done against us. But another reality we have to face is that we are in a spiritual war or battle whereby Scripture is one of our main weapons in fighting and contending for the faith. For we live in a world today where people are seeking to destroy the faith and the goodness that comes with it. For it is not wrong for me to stand up for the good commands and good teachings that are from my Lord Jesus Christ. Granted, if my focus is an attack upon the person rather than the sin, then this is where I would be in the wrong. But to sit by why sinful men are not rebuked by God’s Word is wrong in my opinion. For if we do not speak out against unrighteousness and sin, then who will? Did not Jesus and His followers speak out against evil and preach the good news of Christ and how He can transform our lives for the better? Are we not to take a stand for that which is right? Does not the peace we have run by the order of justice and law?

Anyways, not to boast, but to merely tell you the truth (about myself): My family, and friends and coworkers generally regard me as a kind and loving person in behavior. I have a smile on my face and I am generally upbeat. But when we talk the Word of God. This is a serious thing. This is a matter of fighting for people’s souls out of love for them.

Lovebirdsflying said:
I no longer associate with people who have that type of attitude. As for debates on points of doctrine,

I think it depends. If Christians are arguing in a heated matter over whether the Earth is young or old, then I would say that they are losing the focus in what it means to be Christian. However, if the topic is justifying sin that is clearly condemned in the Bible, then that is another matter entirely. For God is always on the side of that which is good and never evil. For God is good; And God is holy.

Lovebirdsflying said:
I apply Titus 3:9

I believe Titus 3:9 is talking about quarreling over Old Testament Laws that no longer apply anymore. I do not believe it is wrong to defend what God truly meant in what He said in regards to a certain Command He wants us to obey within the New Testament. For does not God want us to do His will?

Lovebirdsflying said:
and 2 Timothy 2:23.

There are many questions and topics on the forums that I believe are inappropriate to even talk about that would relate to this verse. I do not think defending God’s goodness or righteousness or contending for the faith fits the bill of this particular Scripture verse, though. But that is just my personal conviction by God’s Word.

Lovebirdsflying said:
Just don't engage in the argument.

I do not see all arguments as being bad. I see many of them as being a good thing and as being a part of defending the faith.

Lovebirdsflying said:
Romans 14:5 says everyone should be fully convinced in his/her own mind. It doesn't say anything about convincing others.

The context is dealing with food (Romans 14:2) and the keeping of how one regards the Sabbath (Romans 14:5). Nowhere is it stated in Romans 14 that this is speaking in general terms. In fact, it cannot be speaking in general terms because there are other parts of the Bible that tell us that we can judge our fellow brethren by the Word of God (See 2 Timothy 3:16-17 for starters).

Lovebirdsflying said:
Acts 17:11 sets the example of searching the Scriptures for ourselves rather than relying on what someone else tells us it says,

Paul said,

20 “For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.” (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).​

Paul also said,

9 “I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).​

In other words, Paul had God’s authority to write so as to correct these churches if they were out of line. Paul is on the same level as you and me. For we are all one in Christ. Paul could correct them because he was walking faithfully with his Lord.

Lovebirdsflying said:
...and Philippians 2:12 further illustrates that it's up to the individual.

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” (Acts 20:28).

“He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.” (John 20:17).​

Feeding the sheep is teaching your fellow brethren the Word of God. It is making disciples of all nations and getting them to know how to follow God’s love and His good ways.

I hope this helps you to see where I am coming from with God's Word.

May God's peace and love rest upon you this fine day.
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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toLiJC

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You said,

"Witchcraft is certainly a sin, prostitution is debatable, because there have been people turning out to be victims of prostitution rather than causers/authors of a crime; fornication is also debatable, because the biblical version of this word chiefly means spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness...." ~ Quote by toLiJC.​

You are saying fornciation and prostitution are debatable in being sins by this statement above.

Yes?
Or no?

You also said drug use is debateable that it is a sin, too.
Granted, I am not talking about legal medical prescriptions for a certain condition that is life threatening and damaging to one's health but I am talking about taking drugs for social reasons so that one's mind is not sober and clear thinking anymore.

...

and what is sin?!, if a person doesn't cause harm/suffering to their neighbor/cohabitant in any way, where is sin?!, moreover, the cause and source of all evils and iniquities is (the) spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, so why must we judge people, who are victims of sin rather than its servants/causers, for having no chance but to have sex, prostitute and use drugs, when there is a whole system of sin(spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness) that brings all those stumbling blocks, twists, corruptions and temptations to the world?!, each of the true Saints/Prophets of the true God worked for the removal of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, for example remember how Elijah and Elisha worked for the removal of the religion of baal as well as of all other idolatrous and heretical religions from Israel and Judah, Moses struggled against idolatrous and heretical habits, traditions and inclinations among israelites that they had acquired from egypt as well as against invasiveness of idolatrous/heretical tribes toward them, the Lord, Jesus, worked for the removal of heretical traditions of the then jews' religion and preached against all heresies, and St Paul says:

Ephesians 6:12 "we wrestle not against flesh and blood(i.e. not against human or other (be)souled beings, also, not against natural bodily activities (remember Romans 14:14-20 and 1 Timothy 4:1-12)), but against principalities(i.e. but against unrighteous spiritual/religious systems), against powers(i.e. against unrighteous spiritual powers/forces), against the rulers of the darkness of this world(i.e. against the spirits of the darkness whose kingdom is based mainly in this world), against spiritual wickedness in high places."

and remember that one of the main purposes of God and His faithful people presented in 1 and 2 Kings was the removal of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness:

2 Kings 12:3 "But the high places were not taken away: the people still sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places."

for the same reason St James says:

James 3:9-10 "Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be."

and there are many more examples of this in the biblical scriptures, but even if we had no Bible, we could understand that love is love, good is good, mercy is mercy, good treatment is good treatment, evil is evil, mercilessness is mercilessness, hatred is hatred, bad treatment is bad treatment, what is uncertain is uncertain, what is unproven is unproven, etc. - every thing is what it really is, let's better call things with their true names

however, you are right about the fact that the irresponsible use and the willful abuse of alcohol, drugs and other suchlike things could easily turn out to be a crime, but let us also not forget the fact that negative spirits having great power through the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness could drive people to do stupid things, especially such that are harmful to them themselves, just as a two years old baby could, God forbid, thrust a stick into a socket of electrical grid without realizing the risk of serious electric shock - similarly there were adults using drugs in mental derangement/weakness and girls/women prostituting through naivety/stupidity, because they turned out to be/were victims of the world mess that the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness has caused, and everyone could be in their place, and unfortunately will surely be in next/future eternities, which is why it doesn't pay to waste our time with ineffective solutions to the problem - there has been a whole world of human spirituality/religiosity preaching ineffective bodily abstinences and regulated bodily activities instead of working for removing sin root and branch, yes, sin is like a tree that must be pulled up by the roots - every solution different from removing spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness root and branch is like pruning that tree and thus even making it be more beautiful...

this is the point that was explained in my previous post(s), i have nothing against the solutions of the true "Light", but i even work for It; all evil must be removed permanently from humankind, this is what the true "Light" intends to do

Blessings
 
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and what is sin?!, if a person doesn't cause harm/suffering to their neighbor/cohabitant in any way, where is sin?!, moreover, the cause and source of all evils and iniquities is (the) spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, so why must we judge people, who are victims of sin rather than its servants/causers, for having no chance but to have sex, prostitute and use drugs, when there is a whole system of sin(spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness) that brings all those stumbling blocks, twists, corruptions and temptations to the world?!, each of the true Saints/Prophets of the true God worked for the removal of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, for example remember how Elijah and Elisha worked for the removal of the religion of baal as well as of all other idolatrous and heretical religions from Israel and Judah, Moses struggled against idolatrous and heretical habits, traditions and inclinations among israelites that they had acquired from egypt as well as against invasiveness of idolatrous/heretical tribes toward them, the Lord, Jesus, worked for the removal of heretical traditions of the then jews' religion and preached against all heresies, and St Paul says:

Ephesians 6:12 "we wrestle not against flesh and blood(i.e. not against human or other (be)souled beings, also, not against natural bodily activities (remember Romans 14:14-20 and 1 Timothy 4:1-12)), but against principalities(i.e. but against unrighteous spiritual/religious systems), against powers(i.e. against unrighteous spiritual powers/forces), against the rulers of the darkness of this world(i.e. against the spirits of the darkness whose kingdom is based mainly in this world), against spiritual wickedness in high places."

and remember that one of the main purposes of God and His faithful people presented in 1 and 2 Kings was the removal of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness:

2 Kings 12:3 "But the high places were not taken away: the people still sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places."

for the same reason St James says:

James 3:9-10 "Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be."

and there are many more examples of this in the biblical scriptures, but even if we had no Bible, we could understand that love is love, good is good, mercy is mercy, good treatment is good treatment, evil is evil, mercilessness is mercilessness, hatred is hatred, bad treatment is bad treatment, what is uncertain is uncertain, what is unproven is unproven, etc. - every thing is what it really is, let's better call things with their true names

however, you are right about the fact that the irresponsible use and the willful abuse of alcohol, drugs and other suchlike things could easily turn out to be a crime, but let us also not forget the fact that negative spirits having great power through the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness could drive people to do stupid things, especially such that are harmful to them themselves, just as a two years old baby could, God forbid, thrust a stick into a socket of electrical grid without realizing the risk of serious electric shock - similarly there were adults using drugs in mental derangement/weakness and girls/women prostituting through naivety/stupidity, because they turned out to be/were victims of the world mess that the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness has caused, and everyone could be in their place, and unfortunately will surely be in next/future eternities, which is why it doesn't pay to waste our time with ineffective solutions to the problem - there has been a whole world of human spirituality/religiosity preaching ineffective bodily abstinences and regulated bodily activities instead of working for removing sin root and branch, yes, sin is like a tree that must be pulled up by the roots - every solution different from removing spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness root and branch is like pruning that tree and thus even making it be more beautiful...

this is the point that was explained in my previous post(s), i have nothing against the solutions of the true "Light", but i even work for It; all evil must be removed permanently from humankind, this is what the true "Light" intends to do

Blessings

1 John 3:4 defines sin as the breaking of God's law. If Bob breaks the law in God's Word within the New Testament that says to him that he is not to fornicate, then he is in sin. Fornication is a serious sin that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God (if they do not repent of such a sin). For it is written...

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind." (1 Corinthians 6:9).

As for the other sins: Well, lets just take one sin at a time.


...
 
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toLiJC

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1 John 3:4 defines sin as the breaking of God's law. If Bob breaks the law in God's Word within the New Testament that says to him that he is not to fornicate, then he is in sin. Fornication is a serious sin that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God (if they do not repent of such a sin). For it is written...

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind." (1 Corinthians 6:9).

As for the other sins: Well, lets just take one sin at a time.

...

it was already said to you that God is love (1 John 4:7-21), and that there is a need for the faith and the patience of the true Saints in the religious worshipers' hearts (Revelation 13:10)

do you ever make a distinction between causers/perpetrators and victims/enslaved as well as between predators and preys?!, if we don't show love and patience for our neighbor/cohabitant, but are hasty to deliver them up to be ruined/afflicted, especially if they are victims, rather than/not servants, of sin and death, then it is certain we are not with/don't have the true One

so, what would the situation with you/your position be if you were one of the irreligious and non-occult people in this world and didn't even know there is a God, or it was not given to you to be a true religious worshiper/spiritual servant of God(John 6:44)?!

it is written in the Bible that the true God is the One who has caused there to be two main categories of people, "jews" and "gentiles", the "jews" are the spiritual/religious ones, the gentiles - the irreligious and non-occult ones, and He is the Father of all, Who not only (has) received them but also created them/gave them life, so who are we to condemn/doom them to be ruined/afflicted (Romans 3:1-31, Romans 14:1-23)?!, or would it be quite normal if every person was a minister, premier, senator, president, or another suchlike think?! - it is even obvious that God doesn't requires every person to be such

we must not be traitors to our neighbor/cohabitant/brother, we must not betray them, but the main Holy Commandment of God is "love your neighbor even more than yourself"(James 2:8, Romans 13:9, 1 Corinthians 10:24, Galatians 5:14, Galatians 6:2)

moreover, we have to work for overall/all-embracing salvation in the true Lord God:

1 Timothy 2:1-10 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks(i.e. prayers, intercessions, pleadings and blessings), be made for all men(i.e. for the salvation and life's provision of all humans); For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty(also: in all goodness and earnestness). For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men(i.e. all humans/souls) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth(i.e. and to become/be good/righteous). For there is one God, and one mediator(also: and one Lord) between God and men, the man(also: the (be)souled being) Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men(i.e. that the male believers) pray every where, lifting up holy hands(i.e. entirely showing love/goodness), without wrath(also: without hostility/aggression) and doubting(also: and dramatizations/intrigues/fuss/strife). In like manner also, that women(i.e. that the female believers) adorn themselves in modest apparel(i.e. in humility), with shamefacedness(i.e. with meekness) and sobriety(i.e. and sanity); not with broided hair(i.e. not with pride/arrogance), or gold(i.e. or vainglory), or pearls(i.e. or (inordinate) wisdom), or costly array(i.e. or (inordinate) dignity/grandeur/nobleness); But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

so, if the true God has forgiven your sins i.e. if He at least has not allowed sin and death to make you suffer eternally, then do you (in your turn) treat your neighbor/cohabitant/brother in the same way (in which) God has treated you?!

Matthew 18:21-35 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times(i.e. every day of the week)? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven(i.e. i say to you, not just every day of the week, but every time every day, i.e. regardless of how many times they will, God forbid, sin). Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

so, i also think that sin is sin, and that every person that sins will be punished for their sins, including because it is even written so in the biblical scriptures, but nevertheless the main purpose of God and faith is that all human and other (be)souled beings and souls in general (should) be saved and provided with abundant and everlasting life in the true God, which is why the Lord, Jesus, says:

John 12:49-50 "I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

i.e. what God expects and requires from us is to work for, contribute or at least be agreeably committed to the overall salvation in Him and His Son Jesus Christ - it is another question whether He will ultimately save everyone without exceptions (this is His own business yet), but what He wants the religious worshipers/spiritual servants to do is that they entirely be good/righteous at least while practicing the faith

so, we can be good to others, for example, without boasting about anything of myself, in the city i live i many times met and talked to prostitutes, homosexuals and addicts on the streets where they could be found and where i walked in the late hours in order to breath fresh air (of course not in order to have sex with them), and i usually tell them that the sexual corruption is even idiotic besides other things including the fact that it (could) ruin(s) people, some of the girls told me that there is no better job for them, including due to the great unemployment in our country, many of the homosexuals are too obsessed with homosexuality to be able to stop being such, to be more precise, they are too possessed by devilish spirits of homosexuality, unfortunately, years ago i even met two boys with homosexuality, 8 and 14 years old, respectively, yes, one of them was no more than 8 years old, and although his parents were there (we met in one park near my home - his parents took him out in that park for walk and to play with other kids), the kid was visibly possessed by spirit of homosexuality (he spoke like a girl, his manners/behavior were like the girls' manners/behavior, and i was sitting on a bench and he came to me together with one little girl of his age and giggling like a horny woman he asked me to show my genitals to him, i told him that he also has such an organ in his pants, he said his is still too small, the poor boy continued to giggle that way, and that he wants to see the one of some adult man - i told him that one day his will also become big like those of the adult men, and then the two kids ran in giggle), the other boy(14 years) came to me once while i was again sitting on a bench at one place near the same park, he looked and behaved the same as a girl, his voice seemed and his face looked just like the voice and the face of a girl, and he asked me whether i would lend my phone to him in order to call his parents because (according to what he said/claimed) the battery of his phone is too low and his phone doesn't work, and i gave him my phone to use it, and he talked to someone on the phone, then he handed it back (to me), thanked me and left, and at the next moment when my eyes were focusing on his figure in the distance, i saw him turning his head toward me and looking at me laughing like a girl several times, after few weeks i walked on one street near that place and i saw him talking to one old woman at one place, but i didn't call him and continued to walk my way, after a moment i heard a voice calling "hey, wait", i turned and saw it was he, and waited for him to come to me, and then he told me, "do you remember me?, i am the one to whom you lent your phone at that place", and i said "yes, i remember you", he said: "i would like to thank you and return the favor", and i said: "there is no need, you already thanked me, didn't you?", he said: "can i ask you something?", i: "ok", he: "because i am already a big girl now, i want to have sex with a man, would you let me have sex with you?", i: "aren't you a boy?", he: "i'm a girl", i: "why then are you dressed in pants and boyish clothes?", he: "Now i am just wearing pants, but i'm a girl, i am sorry that i am not with a skirt", i: "i would agree with that only if i see you have female genitals", and the poor boy invited me to enter one uninhabitable and empty entrance of a building, but at the next point he refused to do it under the pretext that he has something important to do and hurry, and left...

and what can i say about addicts, there were young addicts that died almost in my hands, despite all my attempts and efforts to do everything i can for their salvation, i talked many times to them about the risk/danger of drugs, but they were too addicted to stop doing dope, yes, i say young addicts, because most addicts in my city are young people that got caught up in using drugs since their childhood and teenage years...

so, i can say from experience that many of those children are not guilty of evildoing and that none of them was guilty of evildoing when they were least children, because most of them got caught up in things that they didn't even intend to do, initially, they didn't even want to have anything to do with such things, but just got caught up in them subsequently due to (the) bad circumstances, why must they be considered as having sin unto death only because they do something considered bad, but don't cause anyone harm/suffering?! - people, come to your senses!, the spiritual servants have to work for overall salvation, not for mass destruction

Blessings
 
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it was already said to you that God is love (1 John 4:7-21), and that there is a need for the faith and the patience of the true Saints in the religious worshipers' hearts (Revelation 13:10)

do you ever make a distinction between causers/perpetrators and victims/enslaved as well as between predators and preys?!, if we don't show love and patience for our neighbor/cohabitant, but are hasty to deliver them up to be ruined/afflicted, especially if they are victims, rather than/not servants, of sin and death, then it is certain we are not with/don't have the true One

so, what would the situation with you/your position be if you were one of the irreligious and non-occult people in this world and didn't even know there is a God, or it was not given to you to be a true religious worshiper/spiritual servant of God(John 6:44)?!

it is written in the Bible that the true God was the One who has caused there to be two main categories of people, "jews" and "gentiles", the "jews" are the spiritual/religious ones, the gentiles - the irreligious and non-occult ones, and He is the Father of all, Who not only (has) received them but also created them/gave them life, so who are we to condemn/doom them to be ruined/afflicted (Romans 3:1-31, Romans 14:1-23)?!, or would it be quite normal if every person was a minister, premier, senator, president, or another suchlike think?! - it is even obvious that God doesn't requires every person to be such

we must not be traitors to our neighbor/cohabitant/brother, we must not betray them, but the main Holy Commandment of God is "love your neighbor even more than yourself"(James 2:8, Romans 13:9, 1 Corinthians 10:24, Galatians 5:14, Galatians 6:2)

moreover, we have to work for overall/all-embracing salvation in the true Lord God:

1 Timothy 2:1-10 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks(i.e. prayers, intercessions, pleadings and blessings), be made for all men(i.e. for the salvation and life's provision of all humans); For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty(also: in all goodness and earnestness). For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men(i.e. all humans/souls) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth(i.e. and to become/be good/righteous). For there is one God, and one mediator(also: and one Lord) between God and men, the man(also: the (be)souled being) Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men(i.e. that the male believers) pray every where, lifting up holy hands(i.e. entirely showing love/goodness), without wrath(also: without hostility/aggression) and doubting(also: and dramatizations/intrigues/fuss/strife). In like manner also, that women(i.e. that the female believers) adorn themselves in modest apparel(i.e. in humility), with shamefacedness(i.e. with meekness) and sobriety(i.e. and sanity); not with broided hair(i.e. not with pride/arrogance), or gold(i.e. or vainglory), or pearls(i.e. or (inordinate) wisdom), or costly array(i.e. or (inordinate) dignity/grandeur/nobleness); But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

so, if the true God has forgiven your sins i.e. if He at least has not allowed sin and death to make you suffer eternally, then do you (in your turn) treat your neighbor/cohabitant/brother in the same way (in which) God has treated you?!

Matthew 18:21-35 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times(i.e. every day of the week)? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven(i.e. i say to you, not just every day of the week, but every time every day, i.e. regardless of how many times they will, God forbid, sin). Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

so, i also think that sin is sin, and that every persons that sins will be punished for their sins, including because it is even written so in the biblical scriptures, but nevertheless the main purpose of God and faith is that all human and other (be)souled beings and souls in general (should) be saved and provided with abundant and everlasting life in the true God, which is why the Lord, Jesus, says:

John 12:49-50 "I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."

i.e. what God expects and requires from us is to work for, contribute or at least be agreeably committed to the overall salvation in Him and His Son Jesus Christ - it is another question whether He will ultimately save everyone without exceptions (this is His own business yet), but what He wants the religious worshipers/spiritual servants to do is that they entirely be good/righteous at least while practicing the faith

so, we can be good to others, for example, without boasting about anything of myself, in the city i live i many times met and talked to prostitutes, homosexuals and addicts on the streets where they could be found and where i walked in the late hours in order to breath fresh air (of course not to have sex with them), and i usually tell them that the sexual corruption is even idiotic besides other things including the fact that it (could) ruin(s) people, some of the girls told me that there is no better job for them, including due to the great unemployment in our country, many of the homosexuals are too obsessed with homosexuality to be able to stop being such, to be more precise, they are too possessed by devilish spirits of homosexuality, unfortunately, years ago i even met two boys with homosexuality, 8 and 14 years old, respectively, yes, one of them was no more than 8 years old, and although his parents were there (we met in one park near my home - his parents took him out in that park for walk and to play with other kids), the kid was visibly possessed by spirit of homosexuality (he spoke like a girl, his manners/behavior were like the girls' manners/behavior, and i was sitting on a bench and he came to me together with one little girl of his age and giggling like a horny woman he asked me to show my genitals to him, i told him that he also has such an organ in his pants, he said his is still too small, the poor boy continued to giggle that way, and that he wants to see the one of some adult man - i told him that one day his will also become big like those of the adult men, and then the two kids ran in giggle), the other boy(14 years) came to me once while i was again sitting on a bench at one place near the same park, he looked and behaved the same as a girl, his voice seemed and his face looked just like the voice and the face of a girl, and he asked me whether i would lend my phone to him in order to call his parents because (according to what he said/claimed) the battery of his phone is too low and his phone doesn't work, and i gave him my phone to use it, and he talked to someone on the phone, then he handed it back (to me), thanked me and left, and at the next moment when my eyes were focusing on his figure in the distance, i saw him turning his head toward me and looking at me laughing like a girl several times, after few weeks i walked on one street near that place and i saw him talking to one old woman at one place, but i didn't call him and continued to walk my way, after a moment i heard a voice calling "hey, wait", i turned and saw it was he, and waited for him to come to me, and then he told me, "do you remember me?, i am the one to whom you lent your phone at that place", and i said "yes, i remember you", he said: "i would like to thank you and return the favor", and i said: "there is no need, you already thanked me, didn't you?", he said: "can i ask you something?", i: "ok", he: "because i am already a big girl now, i want to have sex with a man, would you let me have sex with you?", i: "aren't you a boy?", he: "i'm a girl", i: "why then are you dressed in pants and boyish clothes?", he: "Now i am just wearing pants, but i'm a girl, i am sorry that i am not with a skirt", i: "i would agree with that only if i see you have female genitals", and the poor boy invited me to enter one uninhabitable and empty entrance of a building, but at the next point he refused to do it under the pretext that he has something important to do and hurry, and left...

and what can i say about addicts, there were young addicts that died almost in my hands, despite all my attempts and efforts to do everything i can for their salvation, i many times talked to them about the risk/danger of drugs, but they were too addicted to stop, yes, i say young addicts, because most addicts in my city are young people that got caught up in using drugs since their childhood and teenage years...

so, i can say from experience that many of those children are not guilty of evildoing and that none of them was guilty of evildoing when they were least children, because most of them got caught up in things that they didn't even intend to do, initially, they didn't even want to have anything to do with such things, but just got caught up in them subsequently due to the bad circumstances, why must they be considered as having sin unto death only because they do something considered bad, but don't cause anyone harm/suffering?! - people, come to your senses!, the spiritual servants have to work for overall salvation, not for mass destruction

Blessings

You are writing a book and you are writing in such a way that is not at all clear. Please keep your answers short and to the point. Also please reply using the context of the verses I mentioned. Thank you.


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toLiJC

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You are writing a book and you are writing in such a way that is not at all clear. Please keep your answers short and to the point. Also please reply using the context of the verses I mentioned. Thank you.

...

what haven't you understood?!, i write in plain enough english after all

and what can i say in addition to what i already said to you?!

you refer to 1 John 3:4 and 1 Corinthians 6:9, but, firstly, do you understand what sin is?!, how did sin begin to live in the world?!, through whom?!, why are the sinners sinful?!, how did they become sinners?!, what does sin consists in?!, also, what is holy scripture?!, what is the matter at hand of what is written in the Bible?!, do we really understand its words?!, also, do we hear the Word of That Who is really the true Lord God i.e. the Word coming directly from Him Himself?!, how can we be sure that we understand what is written in scripture if we don't receive direct revelations from Him?!...

Blessings
 
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toLiJC

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when it comes to practicing faith, i don't trust my mind as to what it thinks according to what it fleshly: sees, hears, smells, senses, perceives, feels, etc., because i have to follow the following example:

Isaiah 11:1-4 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."

Blessings
 
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You seem to disagree that fornication is a serious sin that can have dire consequences for even a believer's soul (if they do not repent of such a sin). I didn't see you make a case with Scripture that actually supports that line of thinking. I just see you talking about something else that is not exactly clear. Your running off in some kind of other direction. I presented 1 Corinthians 6:9 (Which condemns fornication). It is up to you to use the context of the chapter to try and prove it is not condemning fornication. That's it. That's all I want from you. Simple. Not complicated.

But that's okay. I am taking a break from this website.
So good day to you.
And I hope the Lord helps you to see what I am trying to say.


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toLiJC

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You seem to disagree that fornication is a serious sin that can have dire consequences for even a believer's soul (if they do not repent of such a sin). I didn't see you make a case with Scripture that actually supports that line of thinking. I just see you talking about something else that is not exactly clear. Your running off in some kind of other direction. I presented 1 Corinthians 6:9 (Which condemns fornication). It is up to you to use the context of the chapter to try and prove it is not condemning fornication. That's it. That's all I want from you. Simple. Not complicated.

But that's okay. I am taking a break from this website.
So good day to you.
And I hope the Lord helps you to see what I am trying to say.

...

yes, i understand you, it is written in the Bible that fornication is a sin, indeed, it can be the greatest sin, but what is fornication?!, if we know this word only from/according to the hitherto prevailing dictionaries and encyclopedias, do/will we thus really understand the biblical concept(ion) of/term 'fornication'?!, i know that if, for example, a person masturbates (sexually) and there is a (certain) deterioration (to the detriment of somebody) somehow accompanying or occurring seemingly/supposedly as a result of their masturbation, then that act can be supposedly considered sinful, and from that perspective we could not afford to recommend such an act, but would rather prohibit it, but here comes the question, what if all that phenomenon is just a product of the activity of the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, IOW, its (typical) scheme/conspiracy?!, because it is written in the Bible that in the beginning adam and eve were naked and even made love together, and there was nothing shameful or unclean in that, and that the same subsequently became shameful/unclean for them but only after they sinned a great sin, how can we be sure that what is supposedly considered nowadays to be a sexual fornication is not just-a-product of some much greater fornication, albeit not sexual but spiritual?!, what if it turns out that the fornication mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6 is, first of all, spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness regarded and presented from a specific perspective?!, here is how there is a salient sign of this:

1 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.",

the same verse (NASB) "Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body."

so, this is how the Holy Apostle intimates that it is about something that is not outside the body, but inside it

where are the external genitalia, i.e. that part of the genitals which is used in the physical(skin-to-skin) contact during sex, outside the body, or inside it?!, of course such a kind of sex that is supposedly considered sinful is physical and is not inside the body, because it would be ridiculous to say that from the spiritual perspective there is a big difference between the outside physical and the inside physical, because in both cases we talk about atoms/molecules, not about spiritual things (given the difference between physics and the Word of God), which is why the Lord, Jesus, says:

Mark 7:15 (KJV) "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

the same verse (NASB) "there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man."

and as for the possibility that a person could commit sexual fornication without any physical contact, but only in their mind, we have the same situation here, there can be not only a mental sexual fornication, but also many other kinds of mental unrighteous/wicked activity, for example: violence, plot, brutality, horror scenes/movies, etc., so from this perspective the sexual fornication is not the only sin that can be inside the body - and there are many more proofs about this, including in the Bible

so, not that i do not agree with the facts and the truth, but we have to understand holy scripture right (enough) if we really want to be competent in these things(the spiritual ones), otherwise we can deceive ourselves and mislead many others, for example by telling them that they must only abstain from some bodily activities, while the unrighteous/lawless/wicked spiritual activity is still done and there is no one to prevent it happen, nor does any of them repent of theirs, moreover, if children have suffered from mental deviations/disorders such as autism, homosexuality, etc. and have not been able to overcome them, even after they made many efforts and did the best they could to overcome their mental deviations/disorders, then it is certain the devilish/negative spirits must be removed from humankind - the sooner, the better, which is why Jesus as well as each of His true disciples cast such spirits out of every possessed person they met even without asking them questions or requiring anything from them, because they knew that spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness and the devilish/negative spirits are the primary cause of all negative/unfavorable symptoms

so, as for whether or not to warn people about the bodily activities that are (supposedly) sins, usually most people are aware that there are kinds of sex and consumptions that are at least immoral or dangerous for health or even life threatening, also, many people know that there are such bodily activities that are deemed sinful by religion, which indicates that the centuries-long religious tradition to warn people about the risk/danger of such sins has been low effective as to the true (re)solution to this problem, which is evident from the prevailing tendency we have seen in this regard, and which proves what the Holy Apostles also said about these things (as in Colossians 2:20-23), and, i can say, yes, if necessary we will have to warn our neighbor or brother about such/these things, but let's also be careful not to turn out to be something like vain parrots repeating the same ineffective instructions rather than reasonable/rational people being aware, bearing in mind and taking into consideration that spiritual things are at the root/core of the problem, because God is Spirit, and His Kingdom is Spiritual, but satan is also a spirit, and the devil's kingdom is spiritual too, while the world of users(humans) is between these two kingdoms so that the spiritual is at the base of every thing in the universe, which even suggests (us) that the problems will never pass if the tree of sin is not uprooted i.e. if all (spiritual) unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is not removed root and branch

so fornication is a sin from this perspective that was set out in my last posts, and there should be a repentance from it

Blessings
 
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yes, i understand you, it is written in the Bible that fornication is a sin, indeed, it can be the greatest sin, but what is fornication?!, if we know this word only from/according to the hitherto prevailing dictionaries and encyclopedias, do/will we thus really understand the biblical concept(ion) of/term 'fornication'?!, i know that if, for example, a person masturbates (sexually) and there is a (certain) deterioration (to the detriment of somebody) somehow accompanying or occurring seemingly/supposedly as a result of their masturbation, then that act can be supposedly considered sinful, and from that perspective we could not afford to recommend such an act, but would rather prohibit it, but here comes the question, what if all that phenomenon is just a product of the activity of the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, IOW, its (typical) scheme/conspiracy?!, because it is written in the Bible that in the beginning adam and eve were naked and even made love together, and there was nothing shameful or unclean in that, and that the same subsequently became shameful/unclean for them but only after they sinned a great sin, how can we be sure that what is supposedly considered nowadays to be a sexual fornication is not just-a-product of some much greater fornication, albeit not sexual but spiritual?!, what if it turns out that the fornication mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6 is, first of all, spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness regarded and presented from a specific perspective?!, here is how there is a salient sign of this:

1 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.",

the same verse (NASB) "Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body."

so, this is how the Holy Apostle intimates that it is about something that is not outside the body, but inside it

where are the external genitalia, i.e. that part of the genitals which is used in the physical(skin-to-skin) contact during sex, outside the body, or inside it?!, of course such a kind of sex that is supposedly considered sinful is physical and is not inside the body, because it would be ridiculous to say that from the spiritual perspective there is a big difference between the outside physical and the inside physical, because in both cases we talk about atoms/molecules, not about spiritual things (given the difference between physics and the Word of God), which is why the Lord, Jesus, says:

Mark 7:15 (KJV) "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

the same verse (NASB) "there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man."

and as for the possibility that a person could commit sexual fornication without any physical contact, but only in their mind, we have the same situation here, there can be not only a mental sexual fornication, but also many other kinds of mental unrighteous/wicked activity, for example: violence, plot, brutality, horror scenes/movies, etc., so from this perspective the sexual fornication is not the only sin that can be inside the body - and there are many more proofs about this, including in the Bible

so, not that i do not agree with the facts and the truth, but we have to understand holy scripture right (enough) if we really want to be competent in these things(the spiritual ones), otherwise we can deceive ourselves and mislead many others, for example by telling them that they must only abstain from some bodily activities, while the unrighteous/lawless/wicked spiritual activity is still done and there is no one to prevent it happen, nor does any of them repent of theirs, moreover, if children have suffered from mental deviations/disorders such as autism, homosexuality, etc. and have not been able to overcome them, even after they made many efforts and did the best they could to overcome their mental deviations/disorders, then it is certain the devilish/negative spirits must be removed from humankind - the sooner, the better, which is why Jesus as well as each of His true disciples cast such spirits out of every possessed person they met even without asking them questions or requiring anything from them, because they knew that spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness and the devilish/negative spirits are the primary cause of all negative/unfavorable symptoms

so, as for whether or not to warn people about the bodily activities that are (supposedly) sins, usually most people are aware that there are kinds of sex and consumptions that are at least immoral or dangerous for health or even life threatening, also, many people know that there are such bodily activities that are deemed sinful by religion, which indicates that the centuries-long religious tradition to warn people about the risk/danger of such sins has been low effective as to the true (re)solution to this problem, which is evident from the prevailing tendency we have seen in this regard, and which proves what the Holy Apostles also said about these things (as in Colossians 2:20-23), and, i can say, yes, if necessary we will have to warn our neighbor or brother about such/these things, but let's also be careful not to turn out to be something like vain parrots repeating the same ineffective instructions rather than reasonable/rational people being aware, bearing in mind and taking into consideration that spiritual things are at the root/core of the problem, because God is Spirit, and His Kingdom is Spiritual, but satan is also a spirit, and the devil's kingdom is spiritual too, while the world of users(humans) is between these two kingdoms so that the spiritual is at the base of every thing in the universe, which even suggests (us) that the problems will never pass if the tree of sin is not uprooted i.e. if all (spiritual) unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is not removed root and branch

so fornication is a sin from this perspective that was set out in my last posts, and there should be a repentance from it

Blessings

Look. Fornication is always wrong. There is no circumstance where fornication will not cause spiritual death for the unbeliever or believer if it is not repented of.

As for fornication being a sin done against the body: Well, sex is like a covenant. You make a covenant with another person and their sin if you fornicate with them. You create a sinful bond with them. You sin against your own body by defiling God's temple by being joined to a harlot. However, the Lord cannot be joined with sin. It is not possible. So it is a pretty sure bet that a person has to repent of their sin of fornication if they plan to be right with the Lord and they plan to be in His Kingdom still. Paul says, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators." (1 Corinthians 5:9). Why? Because they are not a part of the body of Christ. Can they repent of their sin of fornication and have forgiveness? Sure they can. But they have to repent. Forgiveness is not for people who are not really sorry about their sin.


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toLiJC

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Look. Fornication is always wrong. There is no circumstance where fornication will not cause spiritual death for the unbeliever or believer if it is not repented of.

As for fornication being a sin done against the body: Well, sex is like a covenant. You make a covenant with another person and their sin if you fornicate with them. You create a sinful bond with them. You sin against your own body by defiling God's temple by being joined to a harlot. However, the Lord cannot be joined with sin. It is not possible. So it is a pretty sure bet that a person has to repent of their sin of fornication if they plan to be right with the Lord and they plan to be in His Kingdom still. Paul says, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators." (1 Corinthians 5:9). Why? Because they are not a part of the body of Christ. Can they repent of their sin of fornication and have forgiveness? Sure they can. But they have to repent. Forgiveness is not for people who are not really sorry about their sin.

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this is your interpretation, but it doesn't correspond to everything that is written in the biblical scriptures, what is one sex session with a harlot compared to the systematic practice of an idolatrous or heretical religion for decades?!, do you know how much more such a spiritual/religious practice can tie/bind the ones engaging in it to the system of the "darkness"?!, it is even written that every person who practices such a religion will suffer for ever and ever (Revelation 14:9-11), while sex is not even presented as sinful in general, but it is written that in the beginning the man(adam) and the woman(eve) made love in the garden of Eden and there was nothing shameful/unclean in that, St Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:3-5 (NASB) "The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again"

and the Lord, Jesus, says:

Matthew 19:4-6 (NASB) "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

He also pointed out that sexual harlots/fornicators are better than those who commit spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness:

Matthew 21:28-32 (KJV) "A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.",

Luke 7:36-48 (KJV) "And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat. And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven."

the scribes and pharisees intended to kill a harlot that didn't kill anybody, thus even violating the law "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth":

John 8:3-11 (KJV) "the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

so, this is how the Lord, Jesus, indicated that sexual irregularities are less bad than spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness - just count how many times He uses the phrase "woe to (you) scribes and pharisees" and denounced generally those who commit spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, He never says "woe to (you) harlots" or "woe to (you) publicans" or "woe to (you) gentiles"...

unfortunately, many modern religions have the bad tradition to be hasty to condemn/doom harmless people to suffer, die and go to hell only because they are not their followers/worshipers, and don't take into consideration the fact that the irreligious and non-occult people are the last in the list of those who are guilty of sin:

Romans 2:9 (BSB) "There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Greek;"

there are many more testimonies in the Bible indicating that spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is the original and very sin

Blessings
 
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toLiJC

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as for 1 Corinthians 5, you missed noting that St Paul talks about the fornicators/harlots among the religious/spiritual people:

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world(i.e. the irreligious and non-occult fornicators - and so it goes to the end of the sentence), or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother(i.e. spiritual/religious) be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

so, this also indicates that the big problem is spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, not sin of irreligious and non-occult people

unfortunately, we cannot trust literally in the hitherto prevailing translations/versions of the Bible, but have rather to see into the God's Word

Blessings
 
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toLiJC

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Sorry. Not interested in reading a book on justifying a sin that most Christians know to be wrong.

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i understand you, but i don't try to defend any sin/whosesoever sin may be, i just tell the truth about spiritual things, and the truth is that sin is inherently causation/infliction of harm/suffering to/on the neighbor/cohabitant, either spiritual or physical, and the true God would neither actively nor passively cause there to be stumbling blocks, twists, corruptions and temptations in the world, however, there is a whole set of spiritual beliefs and doctrines in Christ, and if we manifest as expressing opinion about spiritual things, then either we are truly aware of the God's truth or we could easily turn out to be misleading/deceitful in this regard, and the worst thing is that the punishment for the false prophets is greatest; fortunately, thank God no human is obliged to manifest as expressing opinion on spiritual things, and one thing is certain, every sinner will sooner or later pay for their sins, but let's better let the true God decide when, where and how

Blessings
 
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i understand you, but i don't try to defend any sin/whosesoever sin may be, i just tell the truth about spiritual things, and the truth is that sin is inherently causation/infliction of harm/suffering to/on the neighbor/cohabitant, either spiritual or physical, and the true God would neither actively nor passively cause there to be stumbling blocks, twists, corruptions and temptations in the world, however, there is a whole set of spiritual beliefs and doctrines in Christ, and if we manifest as expressing opinion about spiritual things, then either we are truly aware of the God's truth or we could easily turn out to be misleading/deceitful in this regard, and the worst thing is that the punishment for the false prophets is greatest; fortunately, thank God no human is obliged to manifest as expressing opinion on spiritual things, and one thing is certain, every sinner will sooner or later pay for their sins, but let's better let the true God decide when, where and how

Blessings

No. Hypothetically speaking, if I believe murder was not a serious sin and yet I did not believe in doing such a sin myself and I told other people this, then I would be wrong. For I would be misleading people to justify sin. For the Bible clearly teaches against murder and fornication as serious sins that can destroy anyone's soul. If you disagree, explain the verses I brought up instead of writing a long book of your own thoughts.


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toLiJC

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No. Hypothetically speaking, if I believe murder was not a serious sin and yet I did not believe in doing such a sin myself and I told other people this, then I would be wrong. For I would be misleading people to justify sin. For the Bible clearly teaches against murder and fornication as serious sins that can destroy anyone's soul. If you disagree, explain the verses I brought up instead of writing a long book of your own thoughts.

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the problem is that if we don't know what exactly killing and fornication are, we won't be able to truthfully explain the rest of the things relating to/about the course/development of eventual circumstances toward them

i don't write a book here, but posts, nor do i write anything of myself here, but only what i receive from That Who is really the true God, IOW, when i witness to a God's Word, i witness only to what He gives me to say

the Bible is not so easy to understand, because its language is very special, for example, 1 Corinthians 5:1, "someone has his father's wife", which seemingly speaks of sexual relations between a man and his father's wife, but actually the matter at hand is spiritual unrighteousness from the perspective of going too far/deep into spirituality i.e. occultism, it is similar to the case explained in Genesis 9:22, "Ham...saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside" - the first great sin committed after the "flood", because there had been very great spiritual iniquity/wickedness before the "flood", and God had to cleanse the world of all sin and did it through the process of a world, spiritual "flood", but one of the sons of Noah went too far/deep into practicing the faith, because his father, Noah, reached a "new", higher level in the spiritual development, which allows a man to forget all biases/prejudices that had appeared and manifested in the human conscience, consciousness and mind since the Fall (Genesis 9:20-21), but his son, ham, having gone too deep into the process of practicing the faith which degenerated into occultism, "saw" the glory of his father through the prism of the occult i.e. the distorted spiritual, and kind of conveyed/transmitted his distorted(occult) knowledge (of what he saw in his father's glory) to his two brothers thus making his father, Noah, out to be unrighteous, so similarly, there was someone among the christian corinthians who had gone too far/deep in practicing the faith thus disgracing God the Father, because the purpose of faith is that the religious worshipers/spiritual servants work for overall salvation in the true Lord God, but the faith, which is also represented as a wife of God in the biblical scriptures, can, God forbid, also be used unrighteously in the form of occultism, esotericism, idolatry and heretical religion, so, that man among the christian corinthians had practiced deep occulrism/esotericism thus (as it were) having his Heavenly Father's wife unrighteously

so this is how there are things in the Bible hard to be understood (as it is said in 2 Peter 3:13-16)

Blessings
 
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