Does God already know if we are going to Heaven or Hell? My answer is no.

Status
Not open for further replies.

ANM29

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
7,172
620
In My Father's Hands..No Safer Place To Be
✟10,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
:thumbsup:Amen to that Enoch. I guess all of this is heresy just because they just do not understand it.

I find the focus and concern of many for some reason is 'heaven'.

Who is going to heaven, Who is not going to heaven.

Jesus ( contrary to popular belief ) did not die so that you could just go to heaven.

Accept Christ now and die and go to heaven some day. This is the teaching and belief as to how salvation works. There is nothing after what you see now in this 'age'. ( BTW, there is nothing that suggest such a thing ). Well, Christ talked about those who did go to church and believed in Christ and seem to do a lot of WORKS and still ends up in the Lake. ( He did say if you just believe in me you will have eternal life ) So, how does that work then? Must be something more to it, I'd say, "Yes it is".

So, that theory has to go right out the door and you have got to come up with something else.:thumbsup:

The Son of God died for a much higher purpose than that, much bigger.

Sorry, :wave:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

disciple-ofjesus

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2009
1,515
185
New York
✟2,839.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
:thumbsup:Amen to that Enoch. I guess all of this is heresy just because they just do not understand it.

I find the focus and concern of many for some reason is 'heaven'.

Who is going to heaven, Who is not going to heaven.

Jesus ( contrary to popular belief ) did not die so that you could just go to heaven.

Accept Christ now and die and go to heaven some day. This is the teaching and belief as to how salvation works. There is nothing after what you see now in this 'age'. ( BTW, there is nothing that suggest such a thing ). Well, Christ talked about those who did go to church and seem to do a lot of WORKS and still ends up in the Lake.

So, that theory has to go right out the door and you have got to come up with something else.:thumbsup:

The Son of God died for a much higher purpose than that, much bigger.

Sorry, :wave:

Um, I agree with what you said here. You are right. Jesus did die for more than heaven. Absolutley. So what exactly am I "misunderstanding"? I fail to see where I have misunderstood. Now as to what I DO NOT agree with, is that ALL will make it the City of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

ANM29

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
7,172
620
In My Father's Hands..No Safer Place To Be
✟10,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Um, I agree with what you said here. You are right. Jesus did die for more than heaven. Absolutley. So what exactly am I "misunderstanding"? I fail to see where I have misunderstood. Now as to what I DO NOT agree with, is that ALL will make it the City of God.

There are a few things you are misunderstanding.
 
Upvote 0

ANM29

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
7,172
620
In My Father's Hands..No Safer Place To Be
✟10,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
ok, such as?


Well..............For one, you are not understanding the total and complete Sovereignty of God, and his purpose of creating us. He did not create us to leave us to decide our final destination, that is myth and doctrines of man.

For two, you are not understanding that satan is nothing more than an instrument/tool that God uses to ensure his purposes on earth are done.

Nothing is just happening on earth. God is not sitting back with his hands folding saying, "I have no say so in the affairs of man".

As a matter of fact, there is nothing that has happened, or happening, or will happen that God is not behind one way or another.

Everything is perspective.

You either give satan all this power ( when it is said he is actually already defeated ) or you give it all to God.

When something is going crazy in my life, trials, tests, tribulations, Is it always the devil behind it? Yes and No..It depends..But, either way.....The Lord told me to either look at it as "The devil is trying to destroy me" ( which is true ) or be more quicker to say, "God you are allowing this or you allowed this and you said ALL things will work together for the GOOD and you are the one who opens and closes doors in my life, show me what it is I am to get out of this circumstance, situation, person". "What the enemy is meaning to destroy me with and for evil, you actually mean it for my good"..'Now go ahead Father and get the Glory out of this situation so that your name will be praised and my enemies will be put to shame and scattered when you decide to end this trial in my life.

If people actually viewed EVERTHING this way, it would be amazing the difference it would make.

I choose to give it all to God.

God takes full responsiblility for sin and he has taken care of it.
 
Upvote 0

Lively Stone

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2010
761
70
✟1,278.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Herein lies your problem... no one understands predestination. I realize that you are responding to Dennis' mischaracterization of your beliefs, which I understand.

However the point bears examining. The fact is no one understands predestination and anyone who thinks they do, I guarentee you, knows far less about it than they think they do.

You might have a concept of a doctrine that you understand, or at least think you do.... but the actual 'fact', or even the concept and all its ramifications and implications... not a chance.


There are scriptures that talk about and use the word 'predestination'. However, the reality of 'predestination' as most know it and 'understand' it is simply a set of doctrines which are logical extensions of other doctrinal conclusions. I don't know if your a TULIP adherent but the idea that most people have of predestination is simply a doctrine which is basically a logical summary of the doctrines that make up TULIP and their antecedants.

That doesn't remotely come close to explaining what predestination actually is in reality or how it works, or anything like that.

I don't have any trouble with predestination. I take the Word of God at face value and don't assign esoteric value to it. The written Word is for all of us to understand--all of it.

Ephesians 1:11
Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
 
Upvote 0

disciple-ofjesus

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2009
1,515
185
New York
✟2,839.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Well..............For one, you are not understanding the total and complete Sovereignty of God, and his purpose of creating us. He did not create us to leave us to decide our final destination, that is myth and doctrines of man.
um, no...I get the sovereignty of God. You are right, GOD does determine who goes to the city and who doesn't. On this we agree.
For two, you are not understanding that satan is nothing more than an instrument/tool that God uses to ensure his purposes on earth are done.
not that I don't understand, I don't know that I agree 100%. Does God use bad for His good? Absolutely.
Nothing is just happening on earth. God is not sitting back with his hands folding saying, "I have no say so in the affairs of man".
agreed., so again, no misunderstanding...
As a matter of fact, there is nothing that has happened, or happening, or will happen that God is not behind one way or another.
once again, agreed...
Everything is perspective.

You either give satan all this power ( when it is said he is actually already defeated ) or you give it all to God.
I give satan no power at all...you are right, he is a defeated foe...
When something is going crazy in my life, trials, tests, tribulations, Is it always the devil behind it? Yes and No..It depends..But, either way.....The Lord told me to either look at it as "The devil is trying to destroy me" ( which is true ) or be more quicker to say, "God you are allowing this or you allowed this and you said ALL things will work together for the GOOD and you are the one who opens and closes doors in my life, show me what it is I am to get out of this circumstance, situation, person". "What the enemy is meaning to destroy me with and for evil, you actually mean it for my good"..'Now go ahead Father and get the Glory out of this situation so that your name will be praised and my enemies will be put to shame and scattered when you decide to end this trial in my life.

If people actually viewed EVERTHING this way, it would be amazing the difference it would make.

I choose to give it all to God.

God takes full responsiblility for sin and he has taken care of it.
again agreed....so what exactly did you say I was misunderstanding? Maybe some of the "misunderstanding" was "assumption" on your part?
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

ANM29

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
7,172
620
In My Father's Hands..No Safer Place To Be
✟10,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
again agreed....so what exactly did you say I was misunderstanding? Maybe some of the "misunderstanding" was "assumption" on your part?

Perhaps, and I apologize if I assumed incorrectly.
 
Upvote 0

disciple-ofjesus

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2009
1,515
185
New York
✟2,839.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Perhaps, and I apologize if I assumed incorrectly.

that's ok. I don't mind clarifying things! I think, perhaps, where we part ways is that "all" will be in the city at the end of the age. the unbelieving and all that is said in Revelation, won't make it. Fornicators, adulterers etc...Pretty clear to me that not all make it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ANM29

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
7,172
620
In My Father's Hands..No Safer Place To Be
✟10,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
that's ok. I don't mind clarifying things! I think, perhaps, where we part ways is that "all" will be in the city at the end of the age. the unbelieving and all that is said in Revelation, won't make it. Fornicators, adulterers etc...Pretty clear to me that not all make it.

No, not all make it to heaven, with that I do agree. But, I also do not believe heaven is the end either. God has much more planned than heaven for us.
 
Upvote 0

disciple-ofjesus

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2009
1,515
185
New York
✟2,839.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I agree ANM...SO, where do the unbelieving and all of the ones listed in Revelation end up then? God Himself said, they the, " 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses clearly indicate, that yes, the "unsaved" will be thrown in the lake of fire. Very clear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

Lively Stone

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2010
761
70
✟1,278.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I agree ANM...SO, where do the unbelieving and all of the ones listed in Revelation end up then? God Himself said, they the, " 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses clearly indicate, that yes, the "unsaved" will be thrown in the lake of fire. Very clear.

That's right, and anyone disputing that is just wishing. The bible is what we have, and God makes it clear to us there. Adding anything to it with regard to God's final justice is only folly.
 
Upvote 0

ANM29

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
7,172
620
In My Father's Hands..No Safer Place To Be
✟10,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I agree ANM...SO, where do the unbelieving and all of the ones listed in Revelation end up then? God Himself said, they the, " 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses clearly indicate, that yes, the "unsaved" will be thrown in the lake of fire. Very clear.

Well, everything is not 'literal' in scripture btw. There is no 'literal' lake of FIRE with a thousand foot flames.

The second death is the Lake of Fire. Which I believe to be God (who is a consuming fire) .

The Lake of Fire is designed to remove everything that is not like God in that person. I know this is where we disagree, but this is what I believe to be true of those scriptures.

( Just as we experience a baptism of fire right now in life. God uses these fires to refine and purify us until we end up looking like what he intended, HIS SON )

The Lake of Fire is what in the end 'destroys or purifies' all that God has no further use for and no longer serves his purpose. Death will be destroyed in the lake ( which is the second death ) and even HELL will be cast into this lake of fire.

The second death means just that, the end of it. It is finished and completed one way or another.

Well, there are a few resurrections, not just one. I believe many will be resurrected out of the Lake of Fire.

Even those "Christians" who Jesus said 'depart from me'. The ones who actually did 'works' and 'believed' in him will as well.

Fire does two things. It either destroys something or it purifies it.

God has no reason to punish forever what he has already made sure was paid for.

Very interesting stuff...

Enoch probably can give you an even better breakdown of Lake of Fire.
 
Upvote 0
E

enoch son

Guest
I agree ANM...SO, where do the unbelieving and all of the ones listed in Revelation end up then? God Himself said, they the, " 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses clearly indicate, that yes, the "unsaved" will be thrown in the lake of fire. Very clear.
Oh well let's leave out the part about such where you 1 cor. 6;9-11 I wonder who set them free the person or the Son of God?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.