Does God already know if we are going to Heaven or Hell? My answer is no.

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enoch son

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This is a common misconception. Those of us (and it may just be me here) that think God has elected some to salvation also think that God has decreed the means by which He will call His people into His family. Namely, He seems to have decided that He prefers to use the proclaiming of the gospel as the means by which He calls His people into His family. And further, He allows us to participate in this endavor by using us a vehicles to proclaim the gospel. So, from my point of view it makes perfect sense to commit ourselves to evangelism. Further, we proclaim the gospel to all people, not just some. Why? Mainly because I have no idea who the elect are. It's not my job to figure out who the elect are and go find them, rather I think we are commanded to proclaim the gospel and let the Holy Spirit work as He will. And why pray for family or friends? Mainly because I hope and want them to be saved. That seems fairly strait foward. What wouldn't make sense is to pray to God for someones salvation knowing good and well that it was all up to the person who I was praying for.
the ver. your looking for is Eph. 3-15
 
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enoch son

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Then Jesus began to reproach the cities in which most of his deeds of power had been done, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades. For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom than for you

If there was no free will the cities that Jesus talked about would have repented, if repentence wasn't a choice why would Jesus even preach to them. They had a choice, they refused to repent. However this passage is clear that they had the choice to repent also.
How the self center doctrine of the flesh cry out. The day of jugdement came it call the cross and that was no picnic for or Lord Jesus christ it all about Him. good grief.
 
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disciple-ofjesus

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exactly Yek...and again, it comes down to we preach to everyone, and it is their choice to accept or reject what they hear. I pray for my family. I had my father come right out and say...he didn't want to hear anything about the gospel. His choice. He has heard. Now, are you trying to tell me, that God would force someone who doesn't want to know Him live with Him for eternity? Nope. Again, his choice.
 
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Tamara224

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Of course God knows.


John 6

43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
***
60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" 61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

Romans 8
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
 
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enoch son

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exactly Yek...and again, it comes down to we preach to everyone, and it is their choice to accept or reject what they hear. I pray for my family. I had my father come right out and say...he didn't want to hear anything about the gospel. His choice. He has heard. Now, are you trying to tell me, that God would force someone who doesn't want to know Him live with Him for eternity? Nope. Again, his choice.
Once agian no ver. to back up your post. Let me give you another one thats in the book eph. 1-4 "just as He choose us in Him before the foundation of the world," opps I quoted the word my misstake.
 
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I think we try to extrapolate too much out of the Scriptures many times.

The point of the story was that God was grieved at the sin of Noah's time, not that he was revealing a theological disposition on predestination and free will.

When we get caught up in this "reading into things" we can get ourselves off into left field I think. (I have been guilty of it as much as anybody)

The distilled message in the Scriptures is: God is holy and we are not. Those that recognize their total helplessness and cry out to God for help get help. Those who don't don't.

In this light all the other points become either secondary or mute.

Does God choose to make some aware of their own helplessness or do we come to that knowledge on our own or is it a little bit of both?

It really doesn't matter. What matters is realizing one's total helplessness and need to be totally dependent on God to set things right between them and God.
 
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dennis580

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Of course God knows.
John 6
64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

Again you seem to be missing the point. I am agreement that God can foreknow anything he wants. God has the power to choose to know anything he wants, and to preordain anything he wants, but that doesn't mean he has chosen to set everything in stone, but certainly somethings he has preordained, and set in stone.

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Again when you go to 2 Peter 3:9 you will see that it is God's will, and plan that ALL should come to repentence, and that GOD is not willing that ANY should perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.- 2 Peter 3:9.

So predestined is Romans 8:28 mean that God's plan is for ALL should go to heaven(because that is what 2 Peter 3:9 says, and the Bible cann't contradict itself), but that doesn't mean it is already set in stone that we ALL will go to heaven. Many people are in hell right now for rejecting Jesus even though God was not willing that ANY should perish. We have to choose to either accept or reject Jesus.
 
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ANM29

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No, the Bible does not say all will go to heaven, but that all will be reconciled unto God. There is a difference.

Heaven is not the goal for God to get people to, Reconciliation through the Blood of his Son is what has already been accomplished.

Heaven will also pass away one day. It is not the last stop. The New Heaven and New Earth is..A totally new world where a child can play with a lion and not be harmed. That is the goal and where God is leading us up to one day. It does not start or end with heaven as you think of heaven.

You have no will when it comes down to God. You think you got 'saved' on your own, with your own 'faith' and own' belief'? Even God dishes out faith for one to believe, so he takes credit for man coming to the knowledge of his Son. He will accomplish this however he sees fit btw.

No, the Holy Spirit drew you because you did not have enough sense on your own to come to God...None of us did.
 
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dennis580

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Some of you have made some good points. My position has shifted on this subject. There is strong evidence that points both ways, and its just not possible for humans in there limited wisdom to know the answer to this question.

So my answer to the question does God already know if we are going to Heaven or Hell? Is that it is not possible for humans to know the answer to this question. There are somethings that we simply won't understand until we get to Heaven, and I believe this is one of them.

Anyway I feel like I have got something positive out of this thread. You guys can keep discussing this subject if you want.
 
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disciple-ofjesus

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To have a God that isn't Omniscient...or all knowing, isn't a God. I look at it like this. Kind of like in Deut. where He shows life and death, and then says, choose life. Well, He gave us the answer to the quiz already! Kind of a no brainer! Same with salvation. He says, I did all I can do, now you choose.
 
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dennis580

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To have a God that isn't Omniscient...or all knowing, isn't a God.

I never said God wasn't omnicscient or wasn't all knowing. I simply said God has has the power(He is all powerful) to choose when, and how he he wants to use his omnicscience, and all knowingness, and that is clear from the Bible.

The Bible says omnicscience is one of God's qualities. So I am not in disagreement with that.
 
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psalms 91

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OK Frtee will and foreknowledge. God has foreknowledge of all things, our choices included which is how He can know where we will go. He gives us every chance and opportunity to go to heaven but if we choose not to then we wont and He already knows it. We are predestined by His foreknowledge of our choices, not vbecause He has done it.
 
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dennis580

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Ok, but God doesn't choose what He knows and doesn't. That is NOT in the Bible. He is all knowing period.

Luke 2:52 makes it clear that he can choose. Jesus grewed in wisdom, and in statue(Jesus is part of the Godhead)

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men- Luke 2:53

I also believe Genesis 6:5-7 makes it clear that God can choose when, and how he uses his omniscince. Unless you want to say a HOLY God knowingly created man to be so wicked, and evil, and then later became so sorry about it that he decided to destroy man.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”- Genesis 6:5-7

Also if you are saying that God does not have the power to choose when, and how he uses his omnicscince, and all knowingness then you are saying God is not all powerful which would be a contradiction. God has the power to use his omnicscience when and how he wants.
 
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