Does God allow His grace to be resisted by humans or is it irresistible?

[BNR32FAN]

I think it all comes down to this. The whole Bible tells us it is about Jesus. The fact is we don't need the Bible. The Holy Spirit convicts us and seals us. It is all Jesus work from start to finish.

John 5:39-40 NLT
"You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! [40] Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.

We do play a part tho. There are many scriptures that say we are victorious.

“Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬

“To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end, To them I will give authority over all the nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:26‬

“All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:7‬

God gives us the ability to overcome evil but we must choose to accept it and use it.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

Yes and God desires our love which true love is a gift given freely. Not something that can be taken by force or preprogrammed.

There is nothing we can do to earn or make Love, it comes from God. We can't work for it or make it. Only God can give Himself to us. God is Love.

 

[Emli]

Another story I can share with you is after I was Saved I was so scared that I was going to lose my Salvation. I kept asking Jesus. He told me that I wouldn't and He even proved it to me. He put in a situation were I would have lost my Salvation if it was up to me to keep it, but it is not up to me, it is up to Jesus. If it was up to me I would be earning it. But Salvation is a gift. The overwhelming theme in the Bible is God's Love for us, not our love for Him. From the beginning to the end He tells us all we need to do is repent and turn to Him to be saved. It is a free gift for all. I wasn't satisfied with what the world has to offer so I turned from the world to Love. I want Love and Forgiveness. I think it is that simple. What we want is what we get. Those that are statisfied with the world's way, which the Bible says is most people, get that, those that want Jesus's Way can have that freely we just need to accept it.

So if we want to change from pride, selfishness, greed, hate, bitterness, unforgiveness, laziness, etc, and turn to humility, selflessness, generosity, Love, Goodness, Kindness we can by turning to Jesus to Save us. I think it is that simple. Just rest in Jesus. Abide in Jesus and stop trying to earn or buy Salvation.

I relate a lot to this, because God did the same for me, and I completely agree. Repentance means to turn from sin, and we cannot change on our own. We confess our sins and He removes them from us, then changes us and we receive His righteousness, His holiness and He teaches us and we walk in His Spirit. All we have do do is believe, repent and follow.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

We do play a part tho. There are many scriptures that say we are victorious.

“Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬

“To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end, To them I will give authority over all the nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:26‬

“All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:7‬

God gives us the ability to overcome evil but we must choose to accept it and use it.

We overcome by Faith in Jesus.

 

[Emli]

I think it all comes down to this. The whole Bible tells us it is about Jesus. The fact is we don't need the Bible.

This is absolutely not true. Matthew 4:4 John 17:17 2 Timothy 2:15 James 1:22

The Bible is our spiritual food, and it is truth. We cannot know God or His will without it. We cannot know the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit without the Word of God, and it is extremely important that we study it daily or at least weekly, because without it, it is very easy to be deceived, and we will be deceived and fall away unless we study Scripture like God has commanded us to. It is the Spirit that gives life, but the Bible is how He teaches us.

 

[Loren T.]

Yes we can resist God. I suspect we all do sometimes. God has to open our eyes for us to even see the need for him. But he doesn't irresistibly compel us to obey. Salvation is offered to all but not all accept.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is nothing we can do to earn or make Love, it comes from God. We can't work for it or make it. Only God can give Himself to us. God is Love.

I agree I’m not sure if perhaps you misunderstood me. I was speaking about us giving our love to God of our own free will.

 

[TCassidy]

I think the problem may be in the question, not in the answers.

Is grace resistible or irresistible?

Perhaps the better wording would be is God's grace able to be resisted? Of course. We resist God's grace every day.

The second half could be better stated "Is God's Grace efficacious?" Efficacious = accomplishes exactly what God intended it to accomplish. God's Grace never fails.

Do we have free will? That would depend on what you mean by "free will?" If you mean "able to make choices" then, of course, we make choices every day.

But the theological meaning of "free will" is something entirely different. Is the will of the lost man free? No. It is in bondage to the law of sin and death.

Is the will of the saved man free? No, it is bound to the Law of New Life in Christ.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Charles Wesley did an excellent job of illustrating it in his great old hymn of the faith, "And Can it Be."

Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and nature's night;
Thine eye diffused a quick'ning ray,
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free;
I rose, went forth and followed Thee.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

This is how I see humanity, we began in relationship with God. We enjoyed God's Presence. But the devil was also in the world. We were given a choice to listen to God or listen to the devil. We listened to the devil. The devil wants to destroy us. He causes death. God causes Life. When we listen to the devil relationships are torn apart. When we listen to Jesus relationships are mended. The solution to our problem is to stop listening to the devil, but we are blinded by the devil to see the Truth of Jesus. When and as we listen to the devil, death and destruction happen. The only Solution is Jesus. Jesus can restore what we lost. Jesus opens our eyes to this understanding. We can then accept Him into our life, or we can reject Him. Most people reject Him. Only a few find Life.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

How does Salvation work? It is all Jesus. It is a gift. We can't earn it. When people say that they need to read the Bible or go to church or anything else they are no longer in Grace. The only things that we can rely on is Jesus. Jesus is Saving us, we are not saving ourselves. As for falling away, that would mean that we are at least in part saving ourselves, but we are not, it is a gift. Jesus is doing all the saving. The Narrow Gate is putting all your Faith in Jesus to Save you. Most people can't get past the Narrow Gate because they don't want to surrender control to Jesus. They want to keep their life, not give it up. They want to think that they need to work by reading the Bible or going to church or keeping sacraments, but that is exactly what is keeping them from coming to Jesus. They need to let go of everything and make Jesus their Everything and realize that He is Enough to Save them without adding anything else to Him. All we need is Jesus, we don't need anything else. That is what the Sabbath symbolizes, all our trying to keep the Law comes to a rest and we now rest in Jesus alone. All work must stop, if it doesn't then our Faith is not in Jesus but ourselves or religion, or good works, or buying it.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

Even the devil disguises himself as an angel of light.

 

[Emli]

How does Salvation work? It is all Jesus. It is a gift. We can't earn it. When people say that they need to read the Bible or go to church or anything else they are no longer in Grace. The only things that we can rely on is Jesus. Jesus is Saving us, we are not saving ourselves. As for falling away, that would mean that we are at least in part saving ourselves, but we are not, it is a gift. Jesus is doing all the saving. The Narrow Gate is putting all your Faith in Jesus to Save you. Most people can't get past the Narrow Gate because they don't want to surrender control to Jesus. They want to keep their life, not give it up. They want to think that they need to work by reading the Bible or going to church or keeping sacraments, but that is exactly what is keeping them from coming to Jesus. They need to let go of everything and make Jesus their Everything and realize that He is Enough to Save them without adding anything else to Him. All we need is Jesus, we don't need anything else. That is what the Sabbath symbolizes, all our trying to keep the Law comes to a rest and we now rest in Jesus alone. All work must stop, if it doesn't then our Faith is not in Jesus but ourselves or religion, or good works, or buying it.

This isn't true. When you put your trust in Jesus and surrender your life to Him, that means that you agree to obey Him and follow His commandments. There is no salvation without it. That isn't a work-based salvation, because it is Jesus that does all the work in you. John 14:21, Luke 6:46, John 8:31-32 Jesus came to redeem us from the devil, open our eyes and restore us into fellowship with God, by giving us His righteousness. That means that we become like Him and live like Him. He was the perfect image of God. If you refuse to do what He has commanded you, which is to live according to God's word and be in fellowship with other Christians, then you aren't living for Him, not surrendered, you haven't given Him control, but you are still living according to your own ways, your own will. Yes, going to church or reading the Bible doesn't save you, but of you rebel and refuse to do those things, then you haven't put your trust in Jesus. You have to follow Jesus' teachings, not by your own strength in the flesh, but in the Spirit, following Him, becoming like Him. The devil twists Scripture, but it is Scripure that we use to defend ourselves, rightly dividing the word of truth, holding on to sound doctrine. What man has done is to create systems that are losely based on the Bible, and created false churches around it. They aren't living according to the Word, but by their own interpretations of it, not doing what it says. That doesn't mean that you and I can follow Jesus without the Bible, it simply means that we have to study the Biblr and let the Holy Spirit teach us, then surrender to Jesus by doing what He commanded us to do. How can we do this without the Word of God?

 

[Emli]

Even the devil disguises himself as an angel of light.

The devil didn't write the Bible or tell us to follow it. The devil tells us to twist it or not read it, because he is a liar and God's Word is truth and it is truth that sets us free. Go, study your Bible and let God renew your mind. Romans 12:2

 

[Emli]

The two friends that I talked about, both fell away because they didn't study Scripture, they both thought like you. They thought that their salvation was secure despite rebelling against God. Many, many, many have fallen into the same trap because of the false doctrine of OSAS. I talk to a lot of people who are struggling with sin, confusion, fear etc, in my ministry, and I often find that they haven't taken time to read the Bible, thinking that they don't have to. And once I get them to read the Gospel and the Letters and put their mind into living by it, they find Jesus for real. It is never the other way around, and it is very dangerous to say that we shouldn't read the Bible, since you would be rejecting Christ by rejecting His teachings.

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

We worship in Spirit and in Truth. Which means we are not confined to to religion, but freed from religion. Jesus Himself comes to us and teaches us. Jesus shows us the Truth. The Bible can be interpreted many different ways, which is why there are so many denominations and Bible translations. So which one is the True religion and translation? None of them because it is all about Jesus. The Bible is all about Jesus. We only need to come to Him. I am counting on Jesus, not my own abilities to interpret Scripture.

 

[Emli]

We worship in Spirit and in Truth. Which means we are not confined to to religion, but freed from religion. Jesus Himself comes to us and teaches us. Jesus shows us the Truth. The Bible can be interpreted many different ways, which is why there are so many denominations and Bible translations. So which one is the True religion and translation? None of them because it is all about Jesus. The Bible is all about Jesus. We only need to come to Him. I am counting on Jesus, not my own abilities to interpret Scripture.

I agree with you, except you still have to read the Bible, and live according to it. The Holy Spirit will show you what it means. You cannot know Jesus without the Bible, which God has given to us. The Bible is not supposed to be interpreted. It is suppose to be spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit. If you skip the Bible, you cannot worship God in truth, because you wouldn't have truth. And therefore you would also not be able to worship Him in Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. You cannot know truth without Scripture, and not without the Holy Spirit. You have to have both. You can skip theology and human doctrines if you want to, but you cannot skip the Bible. The Gospels were written so we would know who Jesus was, and the Letters were written to the Church by the Apostles so we would know sound doctrine, true faith, what it means to live for God and what it means to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. You have to study them for yourself, and let the Holy Spirit show you what it means. You should also listen to other Spirit-led Christians today and from church history who have studied the Word in the Spirit, who have walked with God and who knows and who knew Jesus. Paul was a great Apostle who knew what it meant to follow Christ, and you should listen to Him. Don't see the Bible as some old book, see it as God's communication to you, so you can get to know Him and His will, and ignore those who try and interpret it in their own minds.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I believe that God's grace is both resistable and irresistable. I believe that grace becomes irresistable to us once we see that God is fully sovereign, completely good, holy and righteous and we are not, because He has opened our eyes, but our sins and our pride will keep us blind if we choose them, making it possible for us to resist Him.

I believe that once we come to a point of conviction that we cannot do or be anything without Him, God's grace becomes irresistable to us, because we feel Him so strongly and we know that we need Him. But up until that point, we can resist it, and I believe that most of us do. We can grieve the Spirit if we choose sin, and He is the Spirit of Grace. Ephesians 4:30, Hebrews 10:29 The flesh is at constant war against the Spirit, and if we choose to walk in the flesh, we are resisting God and by extension God's grace, because we do not want to change.
Paul's thorn in the flesh was there to buffet him so that he would be made weak, because God's grace is made perfect in weakness. 2 Corinthians 12:9. It is still our choice whether to submit to God or to keep sinning, and whether to keep walking with God or to leave the faith, which many do. God knows who are His, who will accept His grace and who will keep running the race until the end, and He has chosen each one of us who will and He won't let us be tempted beyond what we can handle in Him, or let us fall away. John 10:27-28, Matthew 24:13, Ephesians 1:4-5, 1 Corinthians 10:13. But God's grace is only irresistable to someone who knows that they need it, someone who sees their own sins, and who accepts Jesus as their Savior. Luke 18:9-14

I therefore believe that God has pre-ordained those who He foreknew would hear His call and accept His grace, and that He has planned our lives and the work we will do for Him from the foundation of the world. God has offered His grace to everyone, John 3:16, and we don't know who are chosen until they become saved, only He knows. Many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:11-14 I believe that this parable represents the ones who have been called, but have not accepted God's grace, but kept living in sin. (Because accepting God's grace means to put on His righteousness Revelation 19:8, Ephesians 4:24, Isaiah 61:10 etc)

I think that may have come out a little incoherent. I'm at work, sorry.

Emli, I am still interested in your concept of "irresistible grace". In your understanding, what makes it irresistible? Does God decide that He won't accept the answer of free will in some cases and forces Himself on some? Or, is it irresistible to us--in that we in our hearts become so overwhelmed, we wouldn't say no?

Put differently, does God, knowingly, give some more than they would ever say "no" to and in that sense, it is irresistible? Or does God actually force? Was Paul forced or was Paul so overwhelmed by the power of God--whom he previously thought he was serving--that He willingly stayed the course that God supernaturally intervened to put him on?

 

[Emli]

Emli, I am still interested in your concept of "irresistible grace". In your understanding, what makes it irresistible? Does God decide that He won't accept the answer of free will in some cases and forces Himself on some? Or, is it irresistible to us--in that we in our hearts become so overwhelmed, we wouldn't say no?

Put differently, does God, knowingly, give some more than they would ever say "no" to and in that sense, it is irresistible? Or does God actually force? Was Paul forced or was Paul so overwhelmed by the power of God--whom he previously thought he was serving--that He willingly stayed the course that God supernaturally intervened to put him on?

I just prayed about it, and I can't give you an answer right now, because I need to pray and ask God about some things that I don't understand.

But may I ask what is the core of your question? I mean, what was the reason behind posting the OP?

 

[Love &Forgiveness]

This isn't true. When you put your trust in Jesus and surrender your life to Him, that means that you agree to obey Him and follow His commandments. There is no salvation without it. That isn't a work-based salvation, because it is Jesus that does all the work in you. John 14:21, Luke 6:46, John 8:31-32 Jesus came to redeem us from the devil, open our eyes and restore us into fellowship with God, by giving us His righteousness. That means that we become like Him and live like Him. He was the perfect image of God. If you refuse to do what He has commanded you, which is to live according to God's word and be in fellowship with other Christians, then you aren't living for Him, not surrendered, you haven't given Him control, but you are still living according to your own ways, your own will. Yes, going to church or reading the Bible doesn't save you, but of you rebel and refuse to do those things, then you haven't put your trust in Jesus. You have to follow Jesus' teachings, not by your own strength in the flesh, but in the Spirit, following Him, becoming like Him. The devil twists Scripture, but it is Scripure that we use to defend ourselves, rightly dividing the word of truth, holding on to sound doctrine. What man has done is to create systems that are losely based on the Bible, and created false churches around it. They aren't living according to the Word, but by their own interpretations of it, not doing what it says. That doesn't mean that you and I can follow Jesus without the Bible, it simply means that we have to study the Biblr and let the Holy Spirit teach us, then surrender to Jesus by doing what He commanded us to do. How can we do this without the Word of God?

After I was Saved I listened to the Bible probably more than a hundred times. I'm not against the Bible, but i know now that my Salvation is totally in Jesus. The whole Bible is about Jesus. All I need is Jesus. I can't add anything else to Jesus. It is through Faith alone to turn from sin and turn to Jesus. I rest alone in Jesus. If I never open the Bible again Jesus will still Save me.

 

[Emli]

If I never open the Bible again Jesus will still Save me.

No, He won't, because you would be living in sin and rebellion, and you would be disconnected from God and probably deceived by an evil spirit pretending to be Jesus (there are many). The Father would then chastise you back to repentance and the Holy Spirit would teach you how to truly live for Jesus Christ from the Bible. Because Jesus isn't all you need, and He never said so either.