Does forgiveness imply no consequences? Also, does God punish us while we live on Earth?

[Lots of Questions]

These are two questions I've always wondered about, especially since I've heard different answers to them.
I wonder if, after asking God for forgiveness, He will personally make sure we still suffer some form of punishment while we are still alive on Earth.
I also wonder if asking for forgiveness doesn't mean we will escape some sort of punishment in the afterlife.

My first question can probably be more specifically explained with this example (just a random example, not based on anything that really happened): Say you get really mad at someone, you insult that person as much as you can. Later on you repent and ask God for forgiveness (and maybe that person too). Then you get hit by a car. Is this final event (getting hit by a car) a consequence (punishment?) to your sin, despite having asked for forgiveness? Or just something unrelated to your sin, that happened for a different reason?
I mean I know sin has direct consequences (in this example you could get a bad reputation among your peers, which could teach you a lesson for the future) but does God punish us with other unrelated events to somehow make us learn the lesson?

Based on scripture (though I'm a huge ignorant) I get some conflict since I can use 2 opposing views on this subject:
-On one hand, in the Adam and Eve story it shows that sin led to many "unrelated" evils in the world (eating a fruit does not seem to be directly related to the consequences that came afterwards).
-On the other, when the apostles asked Jesus about who sinned to cause certain people to have something bad happen to them (like when they asked why a blind man was blind), Jesus said it wasn't a result or consequence of that person's sin.

Jesus died to forgive our sins, did he also die to take the punishment for our sins himself? Does that mean that if something bad happens to us on Earth, it's just the direct consequence of our own or other people's actions on Earth, but NOT a punishment from God?

The reason I'm asking this now is because ever since the last few years I've been constantly paranoid that bad things will happen to me as a punishment for my sins, even if I ask for forgiveness. Even if these bad things seem unrelated to the actions of my sins themselves (for example I once refused to help a person in need, then repented but bad things started to happen to me and I assumed they were God's punishments). This paranoia (for lack of a better word) probably has indeed made me try to be a better person, but I still fail a lot, and it does make me scared of being punished for doing wrong. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad mindset as a Christian.

And an unrelated question (sorry, feel free to ignore this part): Do YOU ask God for forgiveness personally by praying or do you tell your sins to a priest, pastor or someone else?

 

[Chris V++]

IMHO there usually will be consequences for sins even if Jesus already paid the price for our sins. You can drink alcohol to excess for example, ask for forgiveness that night, and wake up with consequence of being hung over, or the consequence of getting a DUI, or in trouble with your spouse.

My first question can probably be more specifically explained with this example (just a random example, not based on anything that really happened): Say you get really mad at someone, you insult that person as much as you can. Later on you repent and ask God for forgiveness (and maybe that person too). Then you get hit by a car. Is this final event (getting hit by a car) a consequence (punishment?) to your sin, despite having asked for forgiveness? Or just something unrelated to your sin, that happened for a different reason?
I mean I know sin has direct consequences (in this example you could get a bad reputation among your peers, which could teach you a lesson for the future) but does God punish us with other unrelated events to somehow make us learn the lesson?

I think you are right that the consequence here would be the damage to your reputation and the relationship with your peers. If you repent and ask forgiveness God will forgive you.

Now if a Christian is willfully sinning and not repenting God will rebuke you. He chastises those He loves. In my own experience the rebukes come more when I am unwilling to repent. We can't hide from God. Every secret sin will be revealed.

'He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion. Pro 28:13

You have placed our iniquities before You, Our secret sins in the light of Your presence. Psalm 90: 8

'For the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son he accepts' Heb 12:6

 

[anna ~ grace]

We can forgive, and yet still exercise caution with people who we feel mean us harm. Forgiveness and trust are not necessarily the same thing.

 

[harko]

I ask God directly for forgiveness! But always in the Name of Jesus.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I think it's also worth noting that asking forgiveness for sins, and confessing sins are not exactly the same thing.

One is listing and admitting specific sins that one has committed, the other is asking forgiveness, either generally for any and all sins, or for those listed.

 

[SkyWriting]

These are two questions I've always wondered about, especially since I've heard different answers to them.
I wonder if, after asking God for forgiveness, He will personally make sure we still suffer some form of punishment while we are still alive on Earth.
I also wonder if asking for forgiveness doesn't mean we will escape some sort of punishment in the afterlife.

My first question can probably be more specifically explained with this example (just a random example, not based on anything that really happened): Say you get really mad at someone, you insult that person as much as you can. Later on you repent and ask God for forgiveness (and maybe that person too). Then you get hit by a car. Is this final event (getting hit by a car) a consequence (punishment?) to your sin, despite having asked for forgiveness? Or just something unrelated to your sin, that happened for a different reason?
I mean I know sin has direct consequences (in this example you could get a bad reputation among your peers, which could teach you a lesson for the future) but does God punish us with other unrelated events to somehow make us learn the lesson?

Based on scripture (though I'm a huge ignorant) I get some conflict since I can use 2 opposing views on this subject:
-On one hand, in the Adam and Eve story it shows that sin led to many "unrelated" evils in the world (eating a fruit does not seem to be directly related to the consequences that came afterwards).
-On the other, when the apostles asked Jesus about who sinned to cause certain people to have something bad happen to them (like when they asked why a blind man was blind), Jesus said it wasn't a result or consequence of that person's sin.

Jesus died to forgive our sins, did he also die to take the punishment for our sins himself? Does that mean that if something bad happens to us on Earth, it's just the direct consequence of our own or other people's actions on Earth, but NOT a punishment from God?

The reason I'm asking this now is because ever since the last few years I've been constantly paranoid that bad things will happen to me as a punishment for my sins, even if I ask for forgiveness. Even if these bad things seem unrelated to the actions of my sins themselves (for example I once refused to help a person in need, then repented but bad things started to happen to me and I assumed they were God's punishments). This paranoia (for lack of a better word) probably has indeed made me try to be a better person, but I still fail a lot, and it does make me scared of being punished for doing wrong. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad mindset as a Christian.

And an unrelated question (sorry, feel free to ignore this part): Do YOU ask God for forgiveness personally by praying or do you tell your sins to a priest, pastor or someone else?

When you put your faith in God or Jesus, you have placed all your faith in God's promise to forgive all your sins and turn your scarlet sins white as snow. This will all happen after your death on judgment day. In the meantime, your life with the built in sin-condition will receive the benefits of God's blessings that give your heart each additional beat, and the trials of life in this groaning creation. You live life following the direction of the Holy Spirit, when you tune in, and the influence of the natural man when you are not in constant prayer. (Much of the time)

 

[Not me]

I think it's also worth noting that asking forgiveness for sins, and confessing sins are not exactly the same thing.

One is listing and admitting specific sins that one has committed, the other is asking forgiveness, either generally for any and all sins, or for those listed.

I think you are correct, they are different. I like to put it in these terms;

Confessing is what we do.
Forgiveness is what God does.

(my understanding)

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[HTacianas]

These are two questions I've always wondered about, especially since I've heard different answers to them.
I wonder if, after asking God for forgiveness, He will personally make sure we still suffer some form of punishment while we are still alive on Earth.
I also wonder if asking for forgiveness doesn't mean we will escape some sort of punishment in the afterlife.

My first question can probably be more specifically explained with this example (just a random example, not based on anything that really happened): Say you get really mad at someone, you insult that person as much as you can. Later on you repent and ask God for forgiveness (and maybe that person too). Then you get hit by a car. Is this final event (getting hit by a car) a consequence (punishment?) to your sin, despite having asked for forgiveness? Or just something unrelated to your sin, that happened for a different reason?
I mean I know sin has direct consequences (in this example you could get a bad reputation among your peers, which could teach you a lesson for the future) but does God punish us with other unrelated events to somehow make us learn the lesson?

Based on scripture (though I'm a huge ignorant) I get some conflict since I can use 2 opposing views on this subject:
-On one hand, in the Adam and Eve story it shows that sin led to many "unrelated" evils in the world (eating a fruit does not seem to be directly related to the consequences that came afterwards).
-On the other, when the apostles asked Jesus about who sinned to cause certain people to have something bad happen to them (like when they asked why a blind man was blind), Jesus said it wasn't a result or consequence of that person's sin.

Jesus died to forgive our sins, did he also die to take the punishment for our sins himself? Does that mean that if something bad happens to us on Earth, it's just the direct consequence of our own or other people's actions on Earth, but NOT a punishment from God?

The reason I'm asking this now is because ever since the last few years I've been constantly paranoid that bad things will happen to me as a punishment for my sins, even if I ask for forgiveness. Even if these bad things seem unrelated to the actions of my sins themselves (for example I once refused to help a person in need, then repented but bad things started to happen to me and I assumed they were God's punishments). This paranoia (for lack of a better word) probably has indeed made me try to be a better person, but I still fail a lot, and it does make me scared of being punished for doing wrong. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad mindset as a Christian.

And an unrelated question (sorry, feel free to ignore this part): Do YOU ask God for forgiveness personally by praying or do you tell your sins to a priest, pastor or someone else?

As to your question on the afterlife:

And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented — by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — [their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice benefiting the most; which each offers particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offers daily for all alike. Of course, it is understood that we do not know the time of their release. We know and believe that there is deliverance for such from their direful condition, and that before the common resurrection and judgment, but when we know not.

Confession of Dositheus, Synod of Jerusalem, 1672

 

[Chris V++]

And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented — by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — [their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice benefiting the most; which each offers particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offers daily for all alike. Of course, it is understood that we do not know the time of their release. We know and believe that there is deliverance for such from their direful condition, and that before the common resurrection and judgment, but when we know not.

Confession of Dositheus, Synod of Jerusalem, 1672

Is that a form of Purgatory?I thought EO didn't recognize Purgatory. I'm not trying to argue or anything, I just thought that wasn't part of EO doctrine.

 

[HTacianas]

Is that a form of Purgatory?I thought EO didn't recognize Purgatory. I'm not trying to argue or anything, I just thought that wasn't part of EO doctrine.

The term "purgatory" and the Western idea of purgatory is not a part of Orthodoxy. But there is an "intermediate state" that exists, but it's not clearly defined. I think it was Fr. Thomas Hopko who once said "If purgatory was a hospital rather than a prison we would agree with the Catholics".

 

[Chris V++]

The term "purgatory" and the Western idea of purgatory is not a part of Orthodoxy. But there is an "intermediate state" that exists, but it's not clearly defined. I think it was Fr. Thomas Hopko who once said "If purgatory was a hospital rather than a prison we would agree with the Catholics".

Thanks for clarifying. The quote you posted stated 'endure punishment due to the sins they have committed' which sounded like the medieval Catholic idea of Purgatory and not a hospital. Thanks

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think it's also worth noting that asking forgiveness for sins, and confessing sins are not exactly the same thing.

One is listing and admitting specific sins that one has committed, the other is asking forgiveness, either generally for any and all sins, or for those listed.

Since "without repentance there is no forgiveness of sins"
where
does repentance ("Turn to Yahweh" away from sin) fit in here ?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Since "without repentance there is no forgiveness of sins"
where
does repentance ("Turn to Yahweh" away from sin) fit in here ?

When we confess, we should also repent, i.e. feel sorrow for what we have done wrong, and also feel a strong purpose of amendment (like, I am going to make every effort with God's help to not do this again). The two should go together.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Repentance in the New Testament, and in the TORAH,
is more like "I turn to you Yahweh(God), and will not murder again (or steal again, or commit adultery again) ...... "

Not more like "God please forgive me, I'm really sorry ..... see you next week to repent again (of the same thing!) .... "

I seriously believe from Scripture that we all need to abhor sin, as God does, not just 'feel sorry' or a 'strong purpose of amendment' .

 

[anna ~ grace]

Repentance in the New Testament, and in the TORAH,
is more like "I turn to you Yahweh(God), and will not murder again (or steal again, or commit adultery again) ...... "

Not more like "God please forgive me, I'm really sorry ..... see you next week to repent again (of the same thing!) .... "

I seriously believe from Scripture that we all need to abhor sin, as God does, not just 'feel sorry' or a 'strong purpose of amendment' .

Do you believe that our struggle against sin is lifelong?

 

[BarWi]

Jesus died to forgive our sins, did he also die to take the punishment for our sins himself? Does that mean that if something bad happens to us on Earth, it's just the direct consequence of our own or other people's actions on Earth, but NOT a punishment from God?

I think the Bible can be interpreted that Jesus died for our sins so that when we kill ourselves [spiritually] with our sin, He resurrects us. Thus, we both suffer the consequences for purposeful sin but are saved from the death that sin brings upon us. This teaching is "hidden" in plain sight in various passages, for example:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (Jn 12:24) While He was speaking of His own death, He also is showing us the principle that death to what is commonly called the "old man" (inherent evil) is necessary to effect the new birth in us.

I don't think God looks for ways to punish individual sins, but brings us into periods of cleansing affliction from time to time as a "course correction", to effect changes that propel us toward betterment of mind and actions. Just some food for thought.

 

[UnprofitableServant]

These are two questions I've always wondered about, especially since I've heard different answers to them.
I wonder if, after asking God for forgiveness, He will personally make sure we still suffer some form of punishment while we are still alive on Earth.
I also wonder if asking for forgiveness doesn't mean we will escape some sort of punishment in the afterlife.

My first question can probably be more specifically explained with this example (just a random example, not based on anything that really happened): Say you get really mad at someone, you insult that person as much as you can. Later on you repent and ask God for forgiveness (and maybe that person too). Then you get hit by a car. Is this final event (getting hit by a car) a consequence (punishment?) to your sin, despite having asked for forgiveness? Or just something unrelated to your sin, that happened for a different reason?
I mean I know sin has direct consequences (in this example you could get a bad reputation among your peers, which could teach you a lesson for the future) but does God punish us with other unrelated events to somehow make us learn the lesson?

Based on scripture (though I'm a huge ignorant) I get some conflict since I can use 2 opposing views on this subject:
-On one hand, in the Adam and Eve story it shows that sin led to many "unrelated" evils in the world (eating a fruit does not seem to be directly related to the consequences that came afterwards).
-On the other, when the apostles asked Jesus about who sinned to cause certain people to have something bad happen to them (like when they asked why a blind man was blind), Jesus said it wasn't a result or consequence of that person's sin.

Jesus died to forgive our sins, did he also die to take the punishment for our sins himself? Does that mean that if something bad happens to us on Earth, it's just the direct consequence of our own or other people's actions on Earth, but NOT a punishment from God?

The reason I'm asking this now is because ever since the last few years I've been constantly paranoid that bad things will happen to me as a punishment for my sins, even if I ask for forgiveness. Even if these bad things seem unrelated to the actions of my sins themselves (for example I once refused to help a person in need, then repented but bad things started to happen to me and I assumed they were God's punishments). This paranoia (for lack of a better word) probably has indeed made me try to be a better person, but I still fail a lot, and it does make me scared of being punished for doing wrong. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad mindset as a Christian.

And an unrelated question (sorry, feel free to ignore this part): Do YOU ask God for forgiveness personally by praying or do you tell your sins to a priest, pastor or someone else?

Hebrews 12: 6-11,
"For whom the Lord loves He chastens,And scourges every son whom He receives.”
you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."

In short, yes, God does chastise us on the Earth.
In peace

 

[AfterThought]

I think the Bible can be interpreted that Jesus died for our sins so that when we kill ourselves [spiritually] with our sin, He resurrects us. Thus, we both suffer the consequences for purposeful sin but are saved from the death that sin brings upon us. This teaching is "hidden" in plain sight in various passages, for example:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (Jn 12:24) While He was speaking of His own death, He also is showing us the principle that death to what is commonly called the "old man" (inherent evil) is necessary to effect the new birth in us.

I don't think God looks for ways to punish individual sins, but brings us into periods of cleansing affliction from time to time as a "course correction", to effect changes that propel us toward betterment of mind and actions. Just some food for thought.

So one person will not be wrong in thinking that what goes around comes around to better oneself by God through God

 

[BarWi]

So one person will not be wrong in thinking that what goes around comes around to better oneself by God through God

Not sure what you mean by the above. Care to elaborate?