Does creationism have any social value?

[Ken-1122]

The creation isn't hidden.

I was speaking hypothetically; that if Creation is the truth, we shouldn't hide the truth (substitute the truth for a lie) because somebody determined it is better for society.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I do not think we as a society embrace evolution fully. Like evolutionary behavioral scientist Gad Saad says, many people who believe in evolution tend to only apply it to the neck down regrading humans.

Are you saying that our 'lower self' accepts evolution but our 'higher self' creation?

I've wondered how an evolved organism can even conceive of having been created. That would be like a meat eating animal suddenly developing a craving for 'mac 'n cheese'.

 

[MehGuy]

Are you saying that our 'lower self' accepts evolution but our 'higher self' creation?

I've wondered how an evolved organism can even conceive of having been created. That would be like a meat eating animal suddenly developing a craving for 'mac 'n cheese'.

I am not sure I would go that far. Just people wanting to avoid uncomfortable questions.

Explaining the evolution of the human foot is fine, but when you get to the mind.. eh.. that scares many people.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That would probably lead to a correlation/causation fallacy, as other factors probably influence both.

When did correlation/causation go from not necessarily to full blown fallacy?
.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am not sure I would go that far. Just people wanting to avoid uncomfortable questions.

I agree.

 

[MehGuy]

I agree.

I'm not sure we're on the same page, lol.

 

[Sketcher]

I believe what it teaches about all of the human race coming from the same Adam and Eve logically cuts racism off at the knees. Are there a few creationists who are also racists? Probably, but they ignore the implications of this powerful lesson from the creation story.

 

[Strathos]

I believe what it teaches about all of the human race coming from the same Adam and Eve logically cuts racism off at the knees. Are there a few creationists who are also racists? Probably, but they ignore the implications of this powerful lesson from the creation story.

Racists will come up with ways to justify their racism no matter what other beliefs they have. Look up the Curse of Ham for example.

 

[Allandavid]

I believe what it teaches about all of the human race coming from the same Adam and Eve logically cuts racism off at the knees. Are there a few creationists who are also racists? Probably, but they ignore the implications of this powerful lesson from the creation story.

Evolutionary theory could be argued to have a similar effect. If we are all originally ‘out of Africa’, then race becomes insignificant...

 

[grasping the after wind]

I do not think we as a society embrace evolution fully. Like evolutionary behavioral scientist Gad Saad says, many people who believe in evolution tend to only apply it to the neck down regrading humans.

Don't conflate evolution with improvement. Evolution is random it doesn't mean a species becomes more "advanced" through the process. Traits that just happen to allow for a better chance of survival in the current environment will flourish and those that do not will either remain constant or, especially if they are a net negative for survivability, will become less common. Humans could well evolve into less intelligent creatures if being less intelligent becomes a better survival tactic. That not because the species is reacting to the environment but because the random genetic mutation just happens to be the more survivable trait.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Evolutionary theory could be argued to have a similar effect. If we are all originally ‘out of Africa’, then race becomes insignificant...

Human nature will trump theory every time. People, in general, are more are tribal than reasonable.. I expect it still is a trait that enhances survivability or may be becoming so again if the current societal environment continues to proceed in the direction it is going. So one can espouse any rational theory that ought to influence what people believe on a subject and find that it has no effect on people's behavior.

 

[Allandavid]

Don't conflate evolution with improvement. Evolution is random it doesn't mean a species becomes more "advanced" through the process. Traits that just happen to allow for a better chance of survival in the current environment will flourish and those that do not will either remain constant or, especially if they are a net negative for survivability, will become less common. Humans could well evolve into less intelligent creatures if being less intelligent becomes a better survival tactic. That not because the species is reacting to the environment but because the random genetic mutation just happens to be the more survivable trait.

You’re only half right, as I understand it..

The process of mutation is indeed random, but natural selection operates under sets of ‘rules’ that are measurable...

 

[grasping the after wind]

You’re only half right, as I understand it..

The process of mutation is indeed random, but natural selection operates under sets of ‘rules’ that are measurable...

Do you believe in intelligent design then? Either we have randomness or we have rules. The two are mutually exclusive concepts. The fact that one can measure something does not imply that there is a universal standard. Measurements are arbitrary standards and can be whatever any group of individuals agree upon. Noticing a pattern exists does not mean that pattern is some inviolate thing that must be adhered to in all times under all circumstances. It only mean we have noticed that in the current environment those things tend to occur in a certain way. If the environment changes significantly enough different tendencies would most likely become the norm.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Humans could well evolve into less intelligent creatures if being less intelligent becomes a better survival tactic.

Well US politics are just about there already. Funny how prophetic the movie idiocracy was.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm not sure we're on the same page, lol.

Maybe not. I responded before your second sentence about the foot appeared.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Racists will come up with ways to justify their racism no matter what other beliefs they have. Look up the Curse of Ham for example.

Sadly criticism has become racism if leveled at minorities.

"Cursed be Canaaan" (not Ham). Grandsons were often called sons.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I believe what it teaches about all of the human race coming from the same Adam and Eve logically cuts racism off at the knees. Are there a few creationists who are also racists? Probably, but they ignore the implications of this powerful lesson from the creation story.

The bible story doesn't end there. It continues with the development of "different manner" of peoples, and diversity of language and location, which led to ethic and cultural differences (race) which led to racism.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Human nature will trump theory every time. People, in general, are more are tribal than reasonable.. I expect it still is a trait that enhances survivability or may be becoming so again if the current societal environment continues to proceed in the direction it is going. So one can espouse any rational theory that ought to influence what people believe on a subject and find that it has no effect on people's behavior.

Generally speaking most people are 'walking contradictions' in the evolutionary sense. Of course from a biblical point of view it all makes sense.

 

[Allandavid]

Do you believe in intelligent design then? Either we have randomness or we have rules. The two are mutually exclusive concepts. The fact that one can measure something does not imply that there is a universal standard. Measurements are arbitrary standards and can be whatever any group of individuals agree upon. Noticing a pattern exists does not mean that pattern is some inviolate thing that must be adhered to in all times under all circumstances. It only mean we have noticed that in the current environment those things tend to occur in a certain way. If the environment changes significantly enough different tendencies would most likely become the norm.

No I most certainly don’t. The ‘rules’ I speak of are not determined by any intelligent agent. They are the result of the constraints imposed by the natural environment. The deer that possesses mutations that allow it to react quicker or run faster than its fellow deer, will have a less likely chance of being lunch for a predator and will have a greater chance of surviving long enough to pass on those mutations. That part of the process is not random...it’s Mathematics...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No I most certainly don’t. The ‘rules’ I speak of are not determined by any intelligent agent. They are the result of the constraints imposed by the natural environment. The deer that possesses mutations that allow it to react quicker or run faster than its fellow deer, will have a less likely chance of being lunch for a predator and will have a greater chance of surviving long enough to pass on those mutations. That part of the process is not random...it’s Mathematics...

Interesting, seeing that the biggest predators (killers) of deer are bullets and vehicles, they sure have got some mutating to do. Also deer rarely use their full speed to evade predators.