1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

Does anyone know of miracles coming from the Anglican or Episcopalian Eucharists?

Discussion in 'Scripture,Tradition,Reason-Anglican & Old Catholic' started by Reformed Catholic, Mar 8, 2022.

  1. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    It would do wonders for ecumenical relations with the Catholic and Orthodox churches if you could document your eucharistic miracles and share them.
     
  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +32,331
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    It "would do wonders" only if we wanted to adopt all the beliefs and practices of Roman Catholicism.

    That, of course, is the way Rome always looks at ecumenical relations, but we don't.

    That said, I seriously doubt that the Church of Rome would be impressed by Anglican claims of this sort, anyway. She almost certainly would deny the validity of such claims.
     
  3. seeking.IAM

    seeking.IAM Episcopalian Supporter

    +4,284
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    That seems both optimistic, and doubtful.
     
  4. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,466
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    From our point of view, we have nothing to prove to Rome or the Orthodox churches. (Ok, perhaps that's just from my point of view, but I suspect I'm not alone in it). They are either interested in relationship with us for who we are, or they aren't. Mostly they aren't, and - again, my point of view - that's their loss.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

    +5,835
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Green
    Rome doesn't recognize our Eucharists to be valid in the first place. Why would they recognize any miracles around them?
     
  6. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    Because if God testifies to a certain aspect of the holiness of your Eucharist then the Vatican would be foolish not to acknowledge it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +32,331
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    Then Rome would be foolish, but she would decline to acknowledge the miracle just the same.

    And if we then turn to the other part of your inquiry, this acknowledgement (if it were to happen) would still not do much of anything to advance ecumenical relations.
     
  8. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    The two things aren't mutually exclusive. That is being interested in a good relationship with your church community for who you are as reformed Anglican and wanting to know more about the possible differences or lack thereof of our priesthoods. I personally know from the one Anglican eucharistic miracle that is described on Wikipedia and from reliable personal testimonies and stories which I have read that Jesus is truly present in your Eucharist. However, that doesn't answer all my questions.

    I have a respect for you all including women have been ordained in the Anglican tradition. A respect that's unfortunately rare among Catholics. However, the whole issue of Anglican and women’s Orders has exited the space where any human judge can make a certain decision and we really need a certain decision on both issues. Unless heaven judges us directly and clearly, I fear that we will never know the full truth.
     
  9. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,466
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    I guess I'm not sure where you're coming from. Why do "we" need a certain decision? Why does this matter?
     
  10. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    As Christ’s visible body on earth we have a unique responsibility to ensure that the saving word of Jesus Christ reaches the ends of the earth and saves as many souls as possible(no I'm not a universalist subjective or otherwise). As many have rightly pointed out that the salvation of souls actually is the “supreme law of the Church”, As Paul points out in regards to his own Apostolic authority in first Corinthians 14 there are ways to lose one salvation and standing in church by rejecting lawful spiritual authority. In first Corinthians 14 Paul delivers this stunning rebuke against those who might set aside his church order disciplinary instructions. “If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or a spiritual person, he should recognize that what I am writing to you is a commandment of the Lord. If anyone does not acknowledge this, he is not acknowledged.”

    If we are not an army set up, trained, and governed clear lines of judicial authority leading back to a central chief judge, the way that God displays again and again throughout the history of Israel under this proper authority and united as one we will not be successful at bringing the life of the Gospel to souls. Concerning Anglicanism, I will just get right to the point. Anglicanism like the reformed tradition anticipated some of the developments of Vatican II. You have things to be proud of. Now at the same time I think that the Anglican church puts itself out of order by rejecting the Pope’s supreme judicial authority. And there are also issues with your 39 articles. In fact your rejection of the Pope's authority puts all of your souls in jeopardy of losing salvation to say nothing of all the issues that stem from that.

    Specifically on the issue of women priests even though I believe that there is room for a scriptural debate about women going into the ministerial priesthood, I simply could not admit them even if I were in the Pope's office unless I received a direct revelation from heaven to the effect that Women would be able to fulfill all the requirements of the calling. For instance, let's say for the sake of argument that women can become icons of Christ. OK that's a gigantic concession from the Catholic standpoint as this would take the Catholic church's primary argument off the table. But what about God the Father? Throughout scripture the first person of the Holy Trinity is described as a Father. Paul pointed out that men and women have complementary ways of imaging the trinitarian God that in some ways reflect the Father’ and the Son’s life (1 Corinthians 11:3-22). What if being a priest requires a special way of representing the Father, the father of the prodigal son etc.? Could the Pope live with all those people receiving invalid sacraments?

    “In Orthodoxy the all-male priesthood is not based on the idea that women can't represent Jesus; if replication of the specifics of the Incarnation is the goal, only a first-century Jew could come near that. In Orthodoxy, it's not Jesus, but the Father whom those serving at the altar represent, and whatever else a woman can be (and, in Orthodoxy, she can be anything else: choir director, lector, teacher, head of the parish council) she cannot be a Father. She can be a Mother, of course, and so there is a recognized and honored role for the priest's wife, with a title: Khouria (Arabic), Matushka (Russian), or Presbytera (Greek). —Frederica Mathewes-Green in "Prologue: In the Passenger Seat" from her book Facing East: A Pilgrim's Journey Into the Mysteries of Orthodoxy”

    Ordination of Women - OrthodoxWiki
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +32,331
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    Yes, that's what many loyal Roman Catholics would say, but how it relates to the topic of this thread still seems a mystery.

    The discussion started with you saying that Anglican eucharistic miracles could lead to bettering the relations between your church and ours, but I don't see any of that in what you've written in this post.
     
  12. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,466
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    I have to agree with Albion. No amount of Eucharistic miracles would lead us back to accepting the Pope's authority. In fact it would seem to strengthen the argument that we are valid without doing so.

    We are not saved by accepting the Pope; we are saved by Christ.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  13. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    The Reverend asked why “it matters” hence my explanation
     
  14. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    Returning to the issue of Eucharistic miracles I believe that it would benefit both churches primarily as it regards the truth. When a Eucharistic miracle occurs it inevitably provides divine confirmation of a specific truth about the Eucharist that is often being rejected or doubted in the Church community where it happened.

    I think that if these things happened, were documented, and shared, more often they would help root us in the objective truth of the Eucharist and that by its very nature would improve ecumenical relations between the two churches. Especially if they lead to a better understanding of a Lord’s Supper or a recognition of Anglican Orders.

    They also will end up saving souls as they have in the past and drawing many young people back to your churches. I know that this is true both from reading about the effect of these miracles and experiencing the effect they have had on my own religious searching. These eucharistic miracles made a tremendous difference in my own decision to remain in the Roman Catholic Church. They also form a crucial part of how I can relate to the Anglican Eucharist and the Anglican church(s).

    MIRACOLI EUCARISTICI - Mostra Internazionale Ideata e Realizzata da Carlo Acutis e Nicola Gori

    Therefore, I suggest to you Reverend that you suggest to your Bishop that (he or she) begin researching Eucharistic miracles and look out for supernatural Eucharistic events and even Eucharistic miracles. If one happens, I urge you to document it the way that the Corpus Christi Anglican Church in Rogers Arkansas did.

    Eucharistic miracle - Wikipedia

    Eucharistic miracle - Wikipedia

    Who knows you or your diocese could be the one that God uses to declare his truth or to build up Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?

    Or at the very least this would provide some additional assistance with the relations between the church communities and bring some people to Christ and his church.
     
  15. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,466
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    You seem to think that we need or want such miracles to prove something; but by and large, I don't think we do. We know the grace of our sacraments, and we don't have to prove it to skeptical Catholics (who will likely work hard to discredit anything they don't want to accept, anyway, just like they do everything else).

    I trust God to build God's church, God's way. If that is by means of such a miracle, fine; but it's not something I'd see as necessary, myself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  16. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    Eucharist miracles do happen from time to time. They have happened for hundreds of years. They always happen to build up God's Church in some way. I think that the Church misses something very valuable when only a few people know about these miracles.
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +32,331
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    It seems that you are reasoning in a vacuum while we are aware of the actual attitudes and histories of both churches/communions.

    And because we do that, we're able to forecast what would likely happen and what is improbable rather than simply saying that something or other would make sense, etc.
     
  18. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

    +3,625
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Celibate
  19. Reformed Catholic

    Reformed Catholic New Member

    11
    +2
    United States
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    That is the thread that got me thinking about this particular subject and searching for more information. Is there a way to get more information to verify at miracle?
     
  20. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

    +2,180
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Republican
    I was curious about what the answers would be. I suspect by the responses the answer is a no?
     
Loading...