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Does anyone know about the past monarchy in Scotland?

Discussion in 'History & Genealogy' started by JacquelineDeane55, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. JacquelineDeane55

    JacquelineDeane55 Newbie

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    My grandmother keeps saying that Queen Mary of Scots is an ancestor of mine.

    I don't know much about Scotland or the monarchy that was there. Scotland is not a monarchy anymore, right?

    Are there any books or literature I could read about Queen Mary of Scots and Scottish history? How about the history of its monarchy?

    I wonder what the Queen would think about the family if she saw it today. We are nothing like her. She was rich and powerful with much influence, and well, we are not. I wonder if she would be turning in her grave if she knew that we were born poor. We have downgraded from being what her royal family was to being nothing more than poor and humble US citizens.

    Sometimes I wish my ancestors had not migrated over here to the US. Then I would not have been born poor. :( If Queen Mary new my humble beginnings what would she feel? She was a Queen and well, I am just a humble church Saint. Nothing to brag about there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  2. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    If you use google and type in Mary Queen of scotland, you will find out about her.
    She had one son who became king of scotland and king of england. His son was charles the1st of england.
     
  3. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Does your grandmother know anything more about your ancestry?

    Queen Mary in herself is a very interesting character - going from princess in a poor and unruly kingdom at the very borders of Europe to queen of France, back to her poor backwater kingdom and her rebellious subjects to pawn in a political struggle between the major powers and religions of Europe to prisoner to... well, headless.
    You can get a first glimpse into her eventful life on her wiki page... there are also several books about her listed.

    There are also some little snippets of genealogy that, if your grandmother's story is correct, can be deduced. You would also be a descendant of King James VI of Scotland / King James I of England, as he was Mary's only child. This is the King James who had this little book translated that became known by his name. You know, the King James Version of the Bible?

    As James had no known illegitimate children, your line would have to go through one of his three children that reached adulthood. The eldest, Henry, died at the very young age of 18, and it is unknown that he had any offspring.

    But here it gets a little difficult. James' daughter Elizabeth married a german prince, Frederick of Palatine. Her line spread out rather quickly. James' only surviving son, Charles, is best known for being beheaded in the English Civil War. His line goes into several European noble houses, and his two surviving sons, both Kings of England, already had a whole boatload of bastards.

    You would have to do quite some research into your family history to find out more.

    Don't worry. Most likely, you would still be "poor". Mary herself died under the executioner's blade, as did her grandson Charles I of England. The whole direct legitimate Stuart line was disinherited for being catholic... and illegitimate offspring never had any great claims to fame and fortune.

    But still... consider the time and society you live in, all the amenities of modern life. You might not have jewels and gold and land (inhabited by people who have a lot of grudges against you ;))... but each of us has things and options in life that even the richest woman of the 16th century would never dream of in her wildest fantasies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  4. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Saw this post in the other thread and decided to respond here in your own little topic.

    Yes, there still is a monarchy in Scotland.
    Scotland had long been an independent kingdom, but Mary Stuart was the last independent queen. Scotland's big neighbor and rival, England, was also ruled by a queen during Mary's era, the famous Elizabeth I, the "Virgin Queen". As her nickname implies, she had no children, and by the genealogical entanglements of the noble houses, her heir was Mary's only child, James. He became King of Scotland when his mother was executed, as James VI, and later, when Elizabeth died, also King of England, as James I. Since then, both kingdoms have been ruled by one monarch, first as two kingdoms united by one ruler, then later as a formal union. This is where the "United Kingdom" comes from... it is the "United Kingdom of Great Britain" (later +Ireland, and again later +only Northern Ireland).
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  5. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt Supporter

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    Queen Elizabeth II is also Queen of Canada of Australia and of New Zealand, all three being constitutional monarchies.
     
  6. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    The Scottish monarchy inherited the English throne to eventually form the United Kingdom. The inherited the English throne in 1603, but the two countries were united only in 1707. The dominions spun off later as separate monarchies, with the same ruler, so technically the Scottish monarch came to rule all.

    This is sometimes connected with the Stone of Scone, the traditional coronation stone of Scotland. This was stolen by Edward I of England and placed under their own coronation chair, when he tried to annex Scotland. It is said that wherever the Stone is, there Scotland would rule, if you go for such post-fact kind of thing.

    Interestingly, the Stuarts lost both thrones after Anne died without issue and the Hanoverian kings ascended to it. Earlier James II had been overthrown by his daughter Mary II and her husband William III during the Glorious Revolution in 1688. James II's sons became the Jacobyte pretenders to the throne, who led attempts to recover them in 1715 and 1745. Now Bonnie Prince Charlie, one of these sons, managed to take over Scotland in 1745, and seeing that they didn't recognise the Union of 1707, could be construed as the last time Scotland was ruled by a separate King of Scotland.
    There are still Jacobyte clubs toasting the "king over the water" today, but they are more social clubs and history buffs. The Jacobyte Stuart claim to Scotland rests today in the House of Bavaria, who inherited it after the direct line went extinct - Bonnie Prince Charlie's brother became a cardinal, who was thus a cardinal while recognised as King of England, Scotland and Ireland by the papacy, and neither of them had any children.
     
  7. JacquelineDeane55

    JacquelineDeane55 Newbie

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    Wow what a bunch of great information! :eek: I read all of it, you guys are so knowledgeable! *Hugs* Thank you!
     
  8. JacquelineDeane55

    JacquelineDeane55 Newbie

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    Oh, my ancestors actually sound kind of violent. I hate violence and stress. :ueee:What turbulent times they lived in. I am a big fan of peace and living a quiet and peaceful lifestyle like the Bible promotes. I am kind of glad I wasn't born when they were alive.
     
  9. JacquelineDeane55

    JacquelineDeane55 Newbie

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    You say there is still a monarchy there, and it is ruled by the current Queen Elizabeth? :mmh: Sorry, some of your information confused me. Its a lot to take in and process for my little peon brain, lol.

    Does that mean she and I are distantly related somehow?
     
  10. JacquelineDeane55

    JacquelineDeane55 Newbie

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    Oh hi Freodin. I have asked my grandmother many times about my ancestry but she never seems to answer me. That's what frustrates me.
     
  11. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Yes, you would be related. Very distantly, most likely. ;)

    The current Queen of England, Elizabeth II is a descendant of King James I, the son of Mary Stuart. Just like you would be, if what your Grandmother says is correct.
     
  12. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt Supporter

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    Royal Blood Line of QUEEN ELIZABETH II
     
  13. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    While possible, such things should be taken with a pinch of salt. Genealogists like to connect their lines with famous figures in the dim mists of the past. Sometimes its true, but often its smoke, mirrors or wishful thinking.

    I am descended from Lisjbeth Arabus, a Malagasy princess that was enslaved by the Dutch. Her family claimed descent, via Arab traders, with the Prophet Mohammed. I find this doubtful.
    Likewise, my Van Der Merwe forebears have a completely spurious tradition claiming descent from Charlemagne, that they defend to the hilt.
    There are far more paupers than princes, so descent from the former is far more likely then the latter, though not impossible.
     
  14. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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  15. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt Supporter

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    My family line was published back in 1922. It traces back to AD167 and includes a good deal of royalty. From my reading, I have confidence that it is good back about 1200 years but the remaining 600 years appear to be legendary. So, I must agree with your assessment that there is considerable "smoke, mirrors or wishful thinking".
     
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