Does anyone here do any martial arts?

[Krav Maga]

Does anyone else on here do any sort of martial arts and how has it helped you?

Personally it has got me in shape and got me more focused. KM has helped me with endurance and as well pushed me further then I thought was possible (test was 6hrs long). I am sure there are others who have benefited from other forms as well.

 

[BobRyan]

I "used" to practice Kung Fu. It was good exercise and helped me be more relaxed in odd situations that sometimes come up for someone in their late teens.

but now after sooo many years - I prefer to just focus on chin-ups, pull-ups, push-ups etc. So then much more low-key these days.

 

[philadelphos]

Probably re-post here. Should Christian’s practice any forms of Martial Arts ?

6hrs. Wow! I agree with focus. Also will power, mental strength, discipline, perseverance, confidence, etc.

The bare minimum keeps my body crumbling and my mind sane. Stretching first thing, breath training (for diving), cold showers, and calisthenics (maintaining records - low figures). I used to train Wu Shu, Wing Chun, Hapkido, athletics, and weights (5x5). Now just kung fu drills (leg strength, flexibility) and opening fridge doors by high kick lol!

Scripture implies that sport has links/roots to Cain and our Babylonian ancestors, 'hunting', violence, aggression, warfare. When I was in that mode, the mind turns instinctively to violence when. When minor conflicts or disagreements arise, the the body flinches to attack or counters. I hate that involuntary sensation. So I'd argue it doesn't "help" at all and is toxic for most if not all. Many guys I've known have committed assault, grievous bodily harm, etc, when they could have easily 'turned the other cheek'. Often between close friends. Or domestic violence. I used to get nightmares ("action dreams"), defeated. I think when several hours a day (a quarter of your life) is spent on Muay Thai combo training, for example, with limbs becoming steel poles from conditioning, the body and mind merge like in meditation or trance. The 'martial art' becomes a dance. This is the risk.

Esau (in contrast to Jacob), the ancestor of Herod the Great, was this way. A hunter turned war lord. Jacob was a indoors-man who cooked. He too was somewhat 'violent', however it was completely different in that he was "wrestling with God", a metaphor for wrestling with sin.

Hence, "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come." (1 Tim 4:8) Pursuit of holiness. Renewal of the mind.

Genetically, I'm like Cain, unfortunately. Drawn to outdoors and physical things. High risk and potentially lethal. It's a problem with carnality. I have to redirect my energy to holy things.

Romans 8:6-8 -- For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Physical labour, lifting, carpentry, woodwork, works for me. Start the day on my feet, breakfast while working. 8-15hrs. Building and repairing stuff that benefit others, serving others. Back muscles grow, torso and arms stay strong. Fresh air and walking all day. This works for now, better than a desk job and stress anyway. Then again, a colleague does Krav Maga almost nightly. He's tall, strong, loves KM, what's great is that his wife goes with him, but he also gets sick easily (injuries, infections), and mentally he's not clear headed or reasonable. Another colleague also does BJJ, also tall and strong, also constantly injured and viruses (colds etc). Just my observation.

 

[now faith]

I was instructed in Okinawan Karate, for a year or so, my Dad helped me with Judo, I enjoy boxing / sparring, and in my youth practiced Kung Fu.
I have trained a lot with nunchucks.
I once tried tai chi but after feeling uncomfortable about the metaphysical aspects of it I stopped.
Honesty I trained for self defense, and enjoy sports like tennis for fitness.
I have incorporated the chucks with tennis.
I have a ball machine, and after practicing with a racquet I sometimes use nunchucks to strike the balls.
I do slow the machine down, but I treat the tennis balls as if they are a weapon being thrown at me, or a type of physical attack.
I throw knives and Hatchetts from time to time.
Being over sixty years old I try to keep prepared for what ever may happen, so I normally work out on speed bag ,and heavy bag if nothing else.

 

[now faith]

like all of us who have the love of God in our hearts, I would not want to harm anyone.
As I matured in Christ I learned nothing is as powerful as Faith in God.
Nevertheless I am in business, a couple of years ago a employee with a bad attitude attempted to football tackle me low at my legs.
He ran full on drove me backwards into a display.
He tried to crawl on top of me, I rolled him and caused him to tap.
Another employee was watching the whole thing, he is a Baptist Preacher, and was just as surprised as I was.
The guy who plowed into me in getting up started to laugh as if he was just playing.
I just let it go, did not get angry but I had concerns about what happened.
He left the store about a month later, he seemed to have anger issue's.
My point is yes we are Christians , no we are not doormats.
I have installed flooring since 1978 and have done my share of labor.
Thinking about it I wonder what would have happened to someone who has a bad heart or other physical ailments?
Things that are not of God will happen in our lives, its by God's grace we are not harmed or in jail.

 

[Krav Maga]

Probably re-post here. Should Christian’s practice any forms of Martial Arts ?

6hrs. Wow! I agree with focus. Also will power, mental strength, discipline, perseverance, confidence, etc.

The bare minimum keeps my body crumbling and my mind sane. Stretching first thing, breath training (for diving), cold showers, and calisthenics (maintaining records - low figures). I used to train Wu Shu, Wing Chun, Hapkido, athletics, and weights (5x5). Now just kung fu drills (leg strength, flexibility) and opening fridge doors by high kick lol!

Scripture implies that sport has links/roots to Cain and our Babylonian ancestors, 'hunting', violence, aggression, warfare. When I was in that mode, the mind turns instinctively to violence when. When minor conflicts or disagreements arise, the the body flinches to attack or counters. I hate that involuntary sensation. So I'd argue it doesn't "help" at all and is toxic for most if not all. Many guys I've known have committed assault, grievous bodily harm, etc, when they could have easily 'turned the other cheek'. Often between close friends. Or domestic violence. I used to get nightmares ("action dreams"), defeated. I think when several hours a day (a quarter of your life) is spent on Muay Thai combo training, for example, with limbs becoming steel poles from conditioning, the body and mind merge like in meditation or trance. The 'martial art' becomes a dance. This is the risk.

Esau (in contrast to Jacob), the ancestor of Herod the Great, was this way. A hunter turned war lord. Jacob was a indoors-man who cooked. He too was somewhat 'violent', however it was completely different in that he was "wrestling with God", a metaphor for wrestling with sin.

Hence, "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come." (1 Tim 4:8) Pursuit of holiness. Renewal of the mind.

Genetically, I'm like Cain, unfortunately. Drawn to outdoors and physical things. High risk and potentially lethal. It's a problem with carnality. I have to redirect my energy to holy things.

Romans 8:6-8 -- For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Physical labour, lifting, carpentry, woodwork, works for me. Start the day on my feet, breakfast while working. 8-15hrs. Building and repairing stuff that benefit others, serving others. Back muscles grow, torso and arms stay strong. Fresh air and walking all day. This works for now, better than a desk job and stress anyway. Then again, a colleague does Krav Maga almost nightly. He's tall, strong, loves KM, what's great is that his wife goes with him, but he also gets sick easily (injuries, infections), and mentally he's not clear headed or reasonable. Another colleague also does BJJ, also tall and strong, also constantly injured and viruses (colds etc). Just my observation.

Yeah it’s a long test (Next one in a couple of months). As far as scripture is concerned there is nothing to say knowing self defense is wrong or sinful. Krav Maga is Israeli martial arts that was used to train the Jews to fight Nazis in WW2, today special forces around the world use it like the US Navy Seals. It’s nothing spiritual just fighting and lots of personal exercises. Now is that wrong? Let’s look at scripture:

1 Corinthians 9:25-27 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.


Why would Paul use fighting as an example if it was so wrong? Secondly we can see in 1 Timothy 4:8 says “bodily training is of some value” suggesting that exercise and being physically fit is of value to the temple of God (being our bodies).

Hunting is how many people of God throughout the Bible ate to live including in the NT. We’re naturally hunters and warriors (look at people of God OT that won wars, Ecclesiastes 3:8). For this reason many metaphors are about being warriors in the NT like 2 Corinthians 10:4, Ephesians 6:11, and 2 Timothy 2:4 to name a few. Yes Jesus told us to turn the other cheek but never said we couldn’t defend others or stop someone from killing us (to just let someone would be suicide).


As far as domestic violence or fighting innocent people. Majority of martial arts teaches discipline as a core element. Most of what KM teaches is to kill our opponents or at least cause serious injury but we know when to use those moves. When sparring we never go out to use those moves on our opponents as we know discipline to not use it unless our lives were in danger or others. I wouldn’t ever use this on my family or anyone. Self control and discipline are extremely important in any form of martial art.

 

[philadelphos]

Yeah it’s a long test (Next one in a couple of months). As far as scripture is concerned there is nothing to say knowing self defense is wrong or sinful. Krav Maga is Israeli martial arts that was used to train the Jews to fight Nazis in WW2, today special forces around the world use it like the US Navy Seals. It’s nothing spiritual just fighting and lots of personal exercises. Now is that wrong? Let’s look at scripture:
...

As far as domestic violence or fighting innocent people. Majority of martial arts teaches discipline as a core element. Most of what KM teaches is to kill our opponents or at least cause serious injury but we know when to use those moves. When sparring we never go out to use those moves on our opponents as we know discipline to not use it unless our lives were in danger or others. I wouldn’t ever use this on my family or anyone. Self control and discipline are extremely important in any form of martial art.

"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances." (Col 2:20) "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." (1 Cor 3:19) "Any technique however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it." (Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kun Do)

Your mind is likely made up, but I'll answer in case it's not. I'll focus on the "killing our opponents" and "cause serious injury" part, i.e. violence and resistance. Arguing that martial arts is violence, offensive or defensive.

2 camps are contrasted, who and what God loves and what he hates: "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence (hamas חָמָס) his soul hateth." (Ps 11:5) "Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent (hamas) man;" (Ps 140:1) Equivalating "evil man" with "violent man". The Lord said, "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." (Mt 5:9)

hamas (חָמָס) is defined as "violence and wrong doing, specifically physical violence, but also injurious language, harsh treatment, etc... (and relates) in general of (to the) rude wickedness of men, their noisy, wild, ruthlessness". H2555 - ḥāmās - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv).

A side note: Kung Fu (功夫) refers to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete. It can refer to any discipline or skill achieved through hard work and practice, not necessarily martial arts. Anything can be "kung fu" (even studying Scripture), hence the philosophical dimension. Whereas Krav maga: k-r-v (קרב‎) n-g-a (נגע‎) = combat/battle + contact/touch. From what little I know, is purely physical system and various MMA designed for lethal violent force, namely against enemies of State of Israel, e.g. executing Nazi war criminals, against ISIS etc.

But the Lord says in Matthew 5:21-22 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." This could ofc be interpreted as non-lethal force is permissible for self-defence. But that would be a very fine line. One would have to use violence for self-defence or good reason, without any trace of ill intent, without anger or emotion, robotic movement. Justified homicide, pure and legal intent. Very difficult.

Read in light of the same line of Christ's teaching on "adultery", as reference to the entire decalogue, it teaches us that action and intention are the same. Both actual harm and thoughts of harming others are the same sin in the eyes of God. Hence Cain and Abel. Esau and Jacob. Herodians who executed Christ vs the "Meek and humble (who) shall inherit the earth." The violent party is the criminal group.

Reference to violence as opposed to instruction to violence is the key to unlocking your question. Paul famously spoke in local terms, embodying local culture, "to the Greek I became a Greek" including Greek-speaking Jewish settlements. People familiar with a culture of gymnasium (weight lifting and body building), the culture of olympics (athletics), unbelieving pagan Greek philosophers, and if you study his work you'll see it done everywhere as a tool for comparison. He credits them but weighs the value of their beliefs (pros and cons) to point men to the Gospel, to God's truth, not to in support of paganism or pagan values. To "run the race" to salvation, not an actual marathon to be honoured among men (which is actually "abomination" to God, Lk 16:15). See, Did Paul quote pagan philosophers?

Temporal vs eternal value. Manpower vs Divine power. The reference to "bodily exercise" (somatikos gymnasia) and famously many other major Greek philosophies in Paul's work was out of respect and acknowledgement, to point the locals to a greater and higher purpose (holiness, godliness). "But godliness is profitable unto all things (πάντα, panta)" having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come."

Proof texts against violence are both implicit and explicit.

As mentioned, Cain vs Able is the earliest case. Whilst it's true people sometimes have no other option, violence is certainly not the rule, not encouraged. No rabbinic school or church will worship while kicking ass. Military service would be an exemption. E.g. Saul enlisting civilian shepherd boy David as champion against Goliath.

When David cut Saul's robe in 1 Sam 24, the accusation was that "David's heart smote him". Commentators teach it was wrong. Firstly, touching the king, but also the act of violence (or threat of violence) against any brother or creature of God (not our property). Brotherly love, world union under God is his will.

David's own defence emphasised the innocence of his action but nothing is said about his intention (i.e. pride, dishonour, rebellion, treason). He denies wrong doing, even justifies his actions by comparing himself to the King, pleading self-defence. "I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that there is neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it." But David was anointed, God's chosen. Whereas, Korah and his rebel army were a similar case, but were not chosen, going against God's appointed leadership, and the rebel para-military was consumed, all dead.

The 6th commandment is blunt: "Thou shalt not kill" (Ex 20:13). It's the first commandment directed at loving neighbourly behaviour (with 1-5 for loving God). Lethal martial arts practices would illegal, in violation. Non-lethal would be legal, but only in 'the letter of the law', not 'the spirit of the law'. The command lacks an object (or pronoun him, her, it) thus implies that we are to not only to not kill/destroy but embrace everyone of God's creatures. As Adam. Rom 12:18 says "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." For all intents and purposes, peace is the goal. Inclusivity, diplomacy. Noah's ark vs God's destruction. To be fishers of men, saving God's creatures from destruction.

Isaiah 60:18 - Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

Whether violence as a means of peace (e.g. self-defence) justifies violence on the whole, that's up to the individual, and there's a toll. Can you afford it?

Injury or destruction is a matter of damage to God's property (his creation). Be it premeditated or unpremeditated violence, the heart of the issue is the act of "killing" itself (anything, especially someone's property or possession: house, wife, animal, son, servant, etc, per the 10th commandment). Whether homicide or theriocide (animal slaughter): "Death at the hands of any man (comp. Gen. iv. 14), man and beast being included in the same statute (ib. ix. 5, 6)." HOMICIDE - JewishEncyclopedia.com. "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." (Gen 4:15)

We are told of spiritual war, in heaven and on earth. Suffering in patience is part of faith, training endurance and inner strength, prayer. Strength in weakness: "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2 Cor 12:10) To be dead to the world and alive in Christ.

"The Lord is a man of war" (Ex 15:3, and many others) And Christ said "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Mt 10) "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Rom 12:19) "Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work." (Pro 24:29) "Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee." (Pro 20:22) "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Mt 5:39) "And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also." (Lk 6:29) "Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (1 Pet 5:5)

 

[Krav Maga]

"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances." (Col 2:20) "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." (1 Cor 3:19) "Any technique however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it." (Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kun Do)

Your mind is likely made up, but I'll answer in case it's not. I'll focus on the "killing our opponents" and "cause serious injury" part, i.e. violence and resistance. Arguing that martial arts is violence, offensive or defensive.

2 camps are contrasted, who and what God loves and what he hates: "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence (hamas חָמָס) his soul hateth." (Ps 11:5) "Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent (hamas) man;" (Ps 140:1) Equivalating "evil man" with "violent man". The Lord said, "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." (Mt 5:9)

hamas (חָמָס) is defined as "violence and wrong doing, specifically physical violence, but also injurious language, harsh treatment, etc... (and relates) in general of (to the) rude wickedness of men, their noisy, wild, ruthlessness". H2555 - ḥāmās - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv).

A side note: Kung Fu (功夫) refers to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete. It can refer to any discipline or skill achieved through hard work and practice, not necessarily martial arts. Anything can be "kung fu" (even studying Scripture), hence the philosophical dimension. Whereas Krav maga: k-r-v (קרב‎) n-g-a (נגע‎) = combat/battle + contact/touch. From what little I know, is purely physical system and various MMA designed for lethal violent force, namely against enemies of State of Israel, e.g. executing Nazi war criminals, against ISIS etc.

But the Lord says in Matthew 5:21-22 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." This could ofc be interpreted as non-lethal force is permissible for self-defence. But that would be a very fine line. One would have to use violence for self-defence or good reason, without any trace of ill intent, without anger or emotion, robotic movement. Justified homicide, pure and legal intent. Very difficult.

Read in light of the same line of Christ's teaching on "adultery", as reference to the entire decalogue, it teaches us that action and intention are the same. Both actual harm and thoughts of harming others are the same sin in the eyes of God. Hence Cain and Abel. Esau and Jacob. Herodians who executed Christ vs the "Meek and humble (who) shall inherit the earth." The violent party is the criminal group.

Reference to violence as opposed to instruction to violence is the key to unlocking your question. Paul famously spoke in local terms, embodying local culture, "to the Greek I became a Greek" including Greek-speaking Jewish settlements. People familiar with a culture of gymnasium (weight lifting and body building), the culture of olympics (athletics), unbelieving pagan Greek philosophers, and if you study his work you'll see it done everywhere as a tool for comparison. He credits them but weighs the value of their beliefs (pros and cons) to point men to the Gospel, to God's truth, not to in support of paganism or pagan values. To "run the race" to salvation, not an actual marathon to be honoured among men (which is actually "abomination" to God, Lk 16:15). See, Did Paul quote pagan philosophers?

Temporal vs eternal value. Manpower vs Divine power. The reference to "bodily exercise" (somatikos gymnasia) and famously many other major Greek philosophies in Paul's work was out of respect and acknowledgement, to point the locals to a greater and higher purpose (holiness, godliness). "But godliness is profitable unto all things (πάντα, panta)" having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come."

Proof texts against violence are both implicit and explicit.

As mentioned, Cain vs Able is the earliest case. Whilst it's true people sometimes have no other option, violence is certainly not the rule, not encouraged. No rabbinic school or church will worship while kicking ass. Military service would be an exemption. E.g. Saul enlisting civilian shepherd boy David as champion against Goliath.

When David cut Saul's robe in 1 Sam 24, the accusation was that "David's heart smote him". Commentators teach it was wrong. Firstly, touching the king, but also the act of violence (or threat of violence) against any brother or creature of God (not our property). Brotherly love, world union under God is his will.

David's own defence emphasised the innocence of his action but nothing is said about his intention (i.e. pride, dishonour, rebellion, treason). He denies wrong doing, even justifies his actions by comparing himself to the King, pleading self-defence. "I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that there is neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it." But David was anointed, God's chosen. Whereas, Korah and his rebel army were a similar case, but were not chosen, going against God's appointed leadership, and the rebel para-military was consumed, all dead.

The 6th commandment is blunt: "Thou shalt not kill" (Ex 20:13). It's the first commandment directed at loving neighbourly behaviour (with 1-5 for loving God). Lethal martial arts practices would illegal, in violation. Non-lethal would be legal, but only in 'the letter of the law', not 'the spirit of the law'. The command lacks an object (or pronoun him, her, it) thus implies that we are to not only to not kill/destroy but embrace everyone of God's creatures. As Adam. Rom 12:18 says "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." For all intents and purposes, peace is the goal. Inclusivity, diplomacy. Noah's ark vs God's destruction. To be fishers of men, saving God's creatures from destruction.

Isaiah 60:18 - Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

Whether violence as a means of peace (e.g. self-defence) justifies violence on the whole, that's up to the individual, and there's a toll. Can you afford it?

Injury or destruction is a matter of damage to God's property (his creation). Be it premeditated or unpremeditated violence, the heart of the issue is the act of "killing" itself (anything, especially someone's property or possession: house, wife, animal, son, servant, etc, per the 10th commandment). Whether homicide or theriocide (animal slaughter): "Death at the hands of any man (comp. Gen. iv. 14), man and beast being included in the same statute (ib. ix. 5, 6)." HOMICIDE - JewishEncyclopedia.com. "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." (Gen 4:15)

We are told of spiritual war, in heaven and on earth. Suffering in patience is part of faith, training endurance and inner strength, prayer. Strength in weakness: "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2 Cor 12:10) To be dead to the world and alive in Christ.

"The Lord is a man of war" (Ex 15:3, and many others) And Christ said "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Mt 10) "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Rom 12:19) "Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work." (Pro 24:29) "Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee." (Pro 20:22) "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Mt 5:39) "And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also." (Lk 6:29) "Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (1 Pet 5:5)

None of those verses are on self defense. For example Psalm 11:5 you quoted was on those “who love violence” which self defense isn’t about loving to hurt people but to protect yourself or others. In psalm 140:1 we see the same thing “men of violence” who are the attackers who try to do others harm. Yet self defense is not to do harm or violence but to protect others from the violent people.

Let’s look at Jesus. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Just a short time later, Jesus is arrested, and Peter takes a sword and cuts off someone’s ear. Jesus rebukes Peter for that act (verses 49–51). Why? In his zeal to defend the Lord, Peter was standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus had told His disciples multiple times that He must be arrested, put on trial, and die. So it wasn’t that self defense was wrong was the issue.

Exodus 22 gives some clues about God’s attitude toward self-defense: “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed… what is taught in this text is the right to defend property.

Jesus’ command to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) has to do with our response to personal slights and offenses. Some situations may call for self-defense, but not retaliation in kind.

The Bible never forbids self-defense, but does forbid loving violence or killing needlessly. As the Bible supports warfare in scripture and even people defending their own property. Remember “blessed are the peacekeepers “ that’s what true self defense is all about keeping the peace and stopping the violent ones from hurting others (or yourself).

 

[holluber6]

Sports, body control, poise, tolerance... Why do I do martial arts... What else should I do with all these gis?

 

[Joyous Song]

Does anyone else on here do any sort of martial arts and how has it helped you?

Personally it has got me in shape and got me more focused. KM has helped me with endurance and as well pushed me further then I thought was possible (test was 6hrs long). I am sure there are others who have benefited from other forms as well.

I do Ti Ch Que Gong.

 

[philadelphos]

None of those verses are on self defense. For example Psalm 11:5 you quoted was on those “who love violence” which self defense isn’t about loving to hurt people but to protect yourself or others. In psalm 140:1 we see the same thing “men of violence” who are the attackers who try to do others harm. Yet self defense is not to do harm or violence but to protect others from the violent people.

Let’s look at Jesus. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Just a short time later, Jesus is arrested, and Peter takes a sword and cuts off someone’s ear. Jesus rebukes Peter for that act (verses 49–51). Why? In his zeal to defend the Lord, Peter was standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus had told His disciples multiple times that He must be arrested, put on trial, and die. So it wasn’t that self defense was wrong was the issue.

Exodus 22 gives some clues about God’s attitude toward self-defense: “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed… what is taught in this text is the right to defend property.

Jesus’ command to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) has to do with our response to personal slights and offenses. Some situations may call for self-defense, but not retaliation in kind.

The Bible never forbids self-defense, but does forbid loving violence or killing needlessly. As the Bible supports warfare in scripture and even people defending their own property. Remember “blessed are the peacekeepers “ that’s what true self defense is all about keeping the peace and stopping the violent ones from hurting others (or yourself).

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Tim 2:3-4)

Prophetic warfare without weaponry, e.g. steel noted in Joshua's conquest. In fact, all the militant people died prior to God allowing the Exodus people to enter into the Promised Land. It was covered in Parashah a couple weeks back.

Josh 5:6 "For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey."

Scripture has numerous allusions and metaphors of war: between Christ and Satan, war between angels in heaven, the last battle of Armegeddon that ends all wars, all death, destruction, bloodshed. Whether or not you believe that Christ's flock will violence perhaps indicates which side you are on. I believe there many indications future events will unfold just as the events within Exodus. e.g. Korah's 20,000 men. God goes before his people who merely bear witness to his greatness.

Isa 42:13 "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies."

Christ I believe is also militant but his weaponry is spiritual, miraculous less physical or man-made e.g. iron ore, forging, beaten steel, etc. I believe warfare prophesied of him (and the "saints") is an actual battle executed miraculously, in such a way that that silences all critics.

Isa 63:3 "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment."

And yet, he is not pro- "self defence... loving violence or killing needlessly. In fact, while the Lord is violent/destructive (in justice) he is simultaneously the opposite: of peace, constructive, (re-) creating.

Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The militant references in Scripture as metaphors are symbolic and indicative of enmity, less instructive. To argue otherwise would be an abuse of Scripture, legalism. Although Christ did not explicitly prohibit many things in literal verse, he however covered such and many more things in broad statements, explicitly and implicitly. e.g. Mt 5:9 "
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." Lk 6:35 "But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."

An ethos continued by Paul in Hebrews, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Heb 12:14) And Romans 12:18, "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." Rom 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." -- The opposite of carnality and physical violence.

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them" Miyamoto Musashi

 

[philadelphos]

Saw this on my feed and thought I'd share.

At the 2min mark the documentary features Wudang kung fu in the Wudang Mountains where belief/practice of Taoism or Daoism is highlighted. The shi fu says, "But when martial arts is combined with religion they'll (physical strength) keep developing at any age", which is referring to their school's practice of 'neidan' (內丹術) and the '3 elements' (精氣神).

Quoting wiki: "An array of esoteric doctrines and physical, mental, and spiritual practices that Taoist initiates use to prolong life and create an immortal spiritual body that would survive after death."--Just one example of 'false teaching' that competes with Christ's message of everlasting life, and that persecution and suffering is a blessing as much as it is God's will, and following Christ who was first to be resurrected all men will be resurrected by Christ himself at the great judgment.

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Mt 5:10-12)

"All martial arts under heaven originated from Shaolin" and kung fu was invented in this region, however some time later there was a split in schools when Wudang became Taoist. And 'martial arts' was certainly used to defend the Taoist monastery, during civil war and surrounded by militant kingdoms. Building on a mountain reinforces their defensive position.

'Neidan' (內丹術) and the '3 elements' (精氣神) is divination that God strictly prohibits in Scripture. "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God." (Lev 19:31) "And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger." (2 Kings 21:6) "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." (Lev 20:27)

Later on certain kingdoms in Chinese history end up practicing 'witchcraft' alongside military campaigns. So it's wise to see that practice of divination is linked to the dark arts: astrology, spirit mediums, human sacrifice, necromancy (maybe also pyromancy). Which is one of the reasons it was intolerable to certain kingdoms and war was declared on the groups who had priestesses (witches) that had started to sacrifice people, defeated prisoners of war. It kicked off the famous 'Spring and Autumn' period of war between the kingdoms 770-476 BC.

Perhaps a kung fu academy exists out there that has converted to Christ (?). Given the above it is very doubtful.

"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. " (1 Jn 4:6)

Blessings to all

 

[Krav Maga]

Saw this on my feed and thought I'd share.

At the 2min mark the documentary features Wudang kung fu in the Wudang Mountains where belief/practice of Taoism or Daoism is highlighted. The shi fu says, "But when martial arts is combined with religion they'll (physical strength) keep developing at any age", which is referring to their school's practice of 'neidan' (內丹術) and the '3 elements' (精氣神).

Quoting wiki: "An array of esoteric doctrines and physical, mental, and spiritual practices that Taoist initiates use to prolong life and create an immortal spiritual body that would survive after death."--Just one example of 'false teaching' that competes with Christ's message of everlasting life, and that persecution and suffering is a blessing as much as it is God's will, and following Christ who was first to be resurrected all men will be resurrected by Christ himself at the great judgment.

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Mt 5:10-12)

"All martial arts under heaven originated from Shaolin" and kung fu was invented in this region, however some time later there was a split in schools when Wudang became Taoist. And 'martial arts' was certainly used to defend the Taoist monastery, during civil war and surrounded by militant kingdoms. Building on a mountain reinforces their defensive position.

'Neidan' (內丹術) and the '3 elements' (精氣神) is divination that God strictly prohibits in Scripture. "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God." (Lev 19:31) "And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger." (2 Kings 21:6) "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." (Lev 20:27)

Later on certain kingdoms in Chinese history end up practicing 'witchcraft' alongside military campaigns. So it's wise to see that practice of divination is linked to the dark arts: astrology, spirit mediums, human sacrifice, necromancy (maybe also pyromancy). Which is one of the reasons it was intolerable to certain kingdoms and war was declared on the groups who had priestesses (witches) that had started to sacrifice people, defeated prisoners of war. It kicked off the famous 'Spring and Autumn' period of war between the kingdoms 770-476 BC.

Perhaps a kung fu academy exists out there that has converted to Christ (?). Given the above it is very doubtful.

"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. " (1 Jn 4:6)

Blessings to all

Not an expert on Kung Fu but the origins of it did have a spiritual side no doubt there. Krav Maga on the other hand has no spiritual aspect just that of self defense and getting an advantage in a life threatening situation. MMA among others also have no spiritual aspect just fighting for sport that strengthens their self defense skills. Many people I fight with are Christians (Israeli martial arts) and talk openly about our faith. It’s what you make it at the end of the day.

Thats just my opinion.

 

[Krav Maga]

"

And yet, he is not pro- "self defence... loving violence or killing needlessly. In fact, while the Lord is violent/destructive (in justice) he is simultaneously the opposite: of peace, constructive, (re-) creating.

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them" Miyamoto Musashi

As I said Exodus 22 gives some clues about God’s attitude toward self-defense: “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed… what is taught in this text is the right to defend property. Yet defending a human life (Psalm 82:3 “defend the weak”) is also a biblical stance as there is no greater love to put your life on the line physically for another person (John 15:13).

But yes the ultimate goal is to hopefully not ever have to use it. If you do however have no other choice that you know how to effectively bring your opponent down.

 

[philadelphos]

As I said Exodus 22 gives some clues about God’s attitude toward self-defense: “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed… what is taught in this text is the right to defend property. Yet defending a human life (Psalm 82:3 “defend the weak”) is also a biblical stance as there is no greater love to put your life on the line physically for another person (John 15:13).

But yes the ultimate goal is to hopefully not ever have to use it. If you do however have no other choice that you know how to effectively bring your opponent down.

I'm really glad you conceded. Although warfare is everywhere in Scripture it is 'divine warfare' between the Sons of Light and Sons of Darkness, not man-made war between tribes/nations or for economic reasons. The first war was from Lucifer and his angels who rebelled in heaven, and it's this same war that is to be concluded in end times per Revelation, bringing about the New Kingdom. Holding onto the future means letting go of the past.

This week's parashat or Torah portion covers this topic. Deuteronomy (Devarim) 21-25 opens with "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands". It is a divine war, according to God's commandments.

However, in the NT portion in Matthew 5, the Lord says:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. (Mt 5:38-45)

It's 'submission' to enemies/evil rather than "to effectively bring your opponent down".--Although that sounds like a bitter pill it must be remembered that even in prison and the worst adversity that God is present and can be glorified, making submission then not a 'weaknesses' but actually something to be truly cheerful and optimistic about because the greatest strength is not physical strength but divine: "The Lord is my strength and my shield" (Ps 28:7)

All flesh will age and rot but the spirit of God cannot die. Hence, "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Mt 10:28)--Knowing that believers are born twice and die once. But unbelievers are born once and die twice.

Quote:

Krav Maga was developed in Czechoslovakia in the 1930s by Imi Lichtenfeld, also known as Imi Sde-Or (Sde-Or–”Light Field”–a calque of his surname into Hebrew). He first taught his fighting system in Bratislava in order to help protect the local Jewish community from the Nazi militia. (History of Krav Maga, History of the Israeli Self-Defense System of Krav Maga | Premier Martial Arts)

KM has similar if not the same origins to KF in it's primitive form (without idolatry), the defensive part especially. Maybe sharing wrestling components also, which is more ancient. Also Eastern Europe and Central Asia also share overlapping ancestry, via various conquerors. Also back to Noah's grandsons who were skilled warriors in the regions near Mt Ararat.

Interestingly, Jacob 'wrestled with God' before becoming 'Israel'. It's this 'stiffnecked' resistance that brought about his new identity, as a nation and kingdom. The image of the man is also understood to be Christ, representing the nation of Israel grappling with God, individually and as a whole.

Physical strength is great 'training' but futile in practice and useless in true warfare. "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things" (1 Tim 4:8)

David was highly skilled at the sling and sword, yet his sons and mutineers revolted against him from inside the kingdom. The 12 tribes were highly skilled warriors, e.g. Tribe of Dan were terrifyingly accurate at the sling (200-300m range!). Tribe of Naphtali had many fighters known for swiftness in battle, leading impromptu charges, and yet were captured by Syria. It sounds terrible at first but even in 'defeat' they were living under God's promise, and held privileged positions as warriors and tutors of children of the Syrian/Median/Persian aristocracy. Some established a terrible militant dynasty in Central Asia for 200 years, the Hephthalites or White Huns, but even this was stamped by the time Alexander arrived and later rulers, exactly according to Daniel's prophecy at Babylon. Nothing in this life lasts forever.

KM as a reaction to the Holocaust makes sense, but it's sad. Since Hitler's 'final solution' stemmed from corruption of biblical teaching, a continuation of Luther's anti-semitism from 'The Jews and Their Lies'. But it begs the question WHAT were Israelites doing in Europe? And how come a millennia before then Israel and Judah had been conquered by Babylon, Syria, Persia, the Romans, the Arabs/Muslims, the British, etc. Because they strayed from God's commandments, so it is divine destruction that can only be made right by a divine solution. In Christ the Mashiach.

I agree that self-sacrifice is the greatest form of brotherly love, but it requires more than you are implying. 'Submission' is "laying down one's life", and it's is the beginning to new life. Joseph was sold into slavery in Egypt and rose to the top job. It was this way that Israel was saved from famine, reuniting the brothers, where Jacob gave blessing Manasseh and Ephraim (Egyptian born sons), and where the Nation of Israel first lived, before the Wilderness, before the Promised Land. Just as Christ was sold to slaughter and was raised from the dead, before the Great Tribulation, and before the coming of the New Jerusalem. Do you see?

“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (Jn 15:13)

This is how Israel is 'light of the world' to men/gentiles. As living evidence/signs of God's divine protection and favour. KM (and KF) then is resistance against God.

Peter:

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. (1 Pet 2:13-17)

Blessings

 

[Krav Maga]

I'm really glad you conceded. Although warfare is everywhere in Scripture it is 'divine warfare' between the Sons of Light and Sons of Darkness, not man-made war between tribes/nations or for economic reasons. The first war was from Lucifer and his angels who rebelled in heaven, and it's this same war that is to be concluded in end times per Revelation, bringing about the New Kingdom. Holding onto the future means letting go of the past.

This week's parashat or Torah portion covers this topic. Deuteronomy (Devarim) 21-25 opens with "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands". It is a divine war, according to God's commandments.

However, in the NT portion in Matthew 5, the Lord says:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. (Mt 5:38-45)

It's 'submission' to enemies/evil rather than "to effectively bring your opponent down".--Although that sounds like a bitter pill it must be remembered that even in prison and the worst adversity that God is present and can be glorified, making submission then not a 'weaknesses' but actually something to be truly cheerful and optimistic about because the greatest strength is not physical strength but divine: "The Lord is my strength and my shield" (Ps 28:7)

All flesh will age and rot but the spirit of God cannot die. Hence, "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Mt 10:28)--Knowing that believers are born twice and die once. But unbelievers are born once and die twice.

Quote:

Krav Maga was developed in Czechoslovakia in the 1930s by Imi Lichtenfeld, also known as Imi Sde-Or (Sde-Or–”Light Field”–a calque of his surname into Hebrew). He first taught his fighting system in Bratislava in order to help protect the local Jewish community from the Nazi militia. (History of Krav Maga, History of the Israeli Self-Defense System of Krav Maga | Premier Martial Arts)

KM has similar if not the same origins to KF in it's primitive form (without idolatry), the defensive part especially. Maybe sharing wrestling components also, which is more ancient. Also Eastern Europe and Central Asia also share overlapping ancestry, via various conquerors. Also back to Noah's grandsons who were skilled warriors in the regions near Mt Ararat.

Interestingly, Jacob 'wrestled with God' before becoming 'Israel'. It's this 'stiffnecked' resistance that brought about his new identity, as a nation and kingdom. The image of the man is also understood to be Christ, representing the nation of Israel grappling with God, individually and as a whole.

Physical strength is great 'training' but futile in practice and useless in true warfare. "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things" (1 Tim 4:8)

David was highly skilled at the sling and sword, yet his sons and mutineers revolted against him from inside the kingdom. The 12 tribes were highly skilled warriors, e.g. Tribe of Dan were terrifyingly accurate at the sling (200-300m range!). Tribe of Naphtali had many fighters known for swiftness in battle, leading impromptu charges, and yet were captured by Syria. It sounds terrible at first but even in 'defeat' they were living under God's promise, and held privileged positions as warriors and tutors of children of the Syrian/Median/Persian aristocracy. Some established a terrible militant dynasty in Central Asia for 200 years, the Hephthalites or White Huns, but even this was stamped by the time Alexander arrived and later rulers, exactly according to Daniel's prophecy at Babylon. Nothing in this life lasts forever.

KM as a reaction to the Holocaust makes sense, but it's sad. Since Hitler's 'final solution' stemmed from corruption of biblical teaching, a continuation of Luther's anti-semitism from 'The Jews and Their Lies'. But it begs the question WHAT were Israelites doing in Europe? And how come a millennia before then Israel and Judah had been conquered by Babylon, Syria, Persia, the Romans, the Arabs/Muslims, the British, etc. Because they strayed from God's commandments, so it is divine destruction that can only be made right by a divine solution. In Christ the Mashiach.

I agree that self-sacrifice is the greatest form of brotherly love, but it requires more than you are implying. 'Submission' is "laying down one's life", and it's is the beginning to new life. Joseph was sold into slavery in Egypt and rose to the top job. It was this way that Israel was saved from famine, reuniting the brothers, where Jacob gave blessing Manasseh and Ephraim (Egyptian born sons), and where the Nation of Israel first lived, before the Wilderness, before the Promised Land. Just as Christ was sold to slaughter and was raised from the dead, before the Great Tribulation, and before the coming of the New Jerusalem. Do you see?

“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (Jn 15:13)

This is how Israel is 'light of the world' to men/gentiles. As living evidence/signs of God's divine protection and favour. KM (and KF) then is resistance against God.

Peter:

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. (1 Pet 2:13-17)

Blessings

I addressed some of this earlier in this thread such as when Jesus’ commanded to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) has to do with our response to personal slights and offenses. Some situations may call for self-defense, but not retaliation in kind.

Let’s look at Jesus. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Just a short time later, Jesus is arrested, and Peter takes a sword and cuts off someone’s ear. Jesus rebukes Peter for that act (verses 49–51). Why? In his zeal to defend the Lord, Peter was standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus had told His disciples multiple times that He must be arrested, put on trial, and die. So it wasn’t that self defense was wrong was the issue.

Jesus himself acted in a physical manner when he dealt with people selling in His fathers house. He was defending Gods temple physically. Nowhere in the Bible does it say defending your property or others is a sin. As we see in Exodus 22 that God doesn’t oppose this.

KM was yes made as a reaction to the holocaust, but today is made to deal with any threat to the lives of its people.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 there is a time for war and a time for peace…

The fact that Jacob wrestled God doesn’t mean the actions of wrestling is evil. Wrestling is a good thing both physically and spiritually as it what shapes us to mature our faith to be stronger.

 

[philadelphos]

I addressed some of this earlier in this thread such as when Jesus’ commanded to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) has to do with our response to personal slights and offenses. Some situations may call for self-defense, but not retaliation in kind.

Let’s look at Jesus. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Just a short time later, Jesus is arrested, and Peter takes a sword and cuts off someone’s ear. Jesus rebukes Peter for that act (verses 49–51). Why? In his zeal to defend the Lord, Peter was standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus had told His disciples multiple times that He must be arrested, put on trial, and die. So it wasn’t that self defense was wrong was the issue.

Jesus himself acted in a physical manner when he dealt with people selling in His fathers house. He was defending Gods temple physically. Nowhere in the Bible does it say defending your property or others is a sin. As we see in Exodus 22 that God doesn’t oppose this.

KM was yes made as a reaction to the holocaust, but today is made to deal with any threat to the lives of its people.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 there is a time for war and a time for peace…

The fact that Jacob wrestled God doesn’t mean the actions of wrestling is evil. Wrestling is a good thing both physically and spiritually as it what shapes us to mature our faith to be stronger.

Defence and offence are two sides of the same coin, violence and militarism. The commandment is "Thou shalt not kill", self-defence or not.

Jn 18:36, Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Scripture prophecies of a coming war (between sons of light and darkness) but believers will not fight the way that you imagine, the way war is currently practiced. That is the way of the old world, the dying world, the way of death. A bad investment. There are many hints throughout Christ's ministry, his interactions with Peter, the powers he gave his apostles. It all points to the spiritual, 'miraculous' or supernatural. That is, Christ's way manipulates the laws of physics. Hence, this weeks parashat in Deu 32 says, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight" (Deu 32:30). What it speaks of is not possible with krav maga or kung fu.

Some believe the first human warfare was taught by Azazel, that rebel angels introduced many of the worlds problems, before the Great Food. But we have nothing to fear because Michael is superior to Lucifer, and we're told that Christ's followers will be "as the angels", more or less. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Mt 22:30)

blessings to all, shalom

 

[TedT]

I started training Shorin-ji Ryu karate in 1972 and converted to Christianity in 1980 after 8 years of Bible study. I wondered about continuing karate but decided GOD wanted me to train and it was good for my emotional health.

I started teaching in 1993 and while teaching karate I overlapped with 3 years of modern arnis stick and knife work for circular hand motions and 3 years in Bagua Zhang for circular stepping motions. In 2004 or so I started training in Hong's Practical Method of Chen tai chi for internal ability.

The highlight of my tai chi training was when Master Chen said: "Ted, I don't see any karate in your form any more." The most humbling moment was immediately after when he continued: "I don't see any tai chi yet either but no karate at least."

 

[Daily Propane]

I do boxing and looking to try Muay Thai

 

[timewerx]

I'm wondering if I can still train in martial arts if one day I decide to enlist in the army?

I have a bit of a problem. I broke my elbow joint years ago in an accident. I had surgery and got metal implants in there. The implants are still there. No pain, no discomfort whatsoever. However, it has resulted to 30 degrees less Range of Motion (ROM). I can lift my whole body with gym equipment with both arms without pain.

However, I worry during training the joint could break when I get thrown or arm twisted due to limited ROM and the fact I'm already in my forties. I'm intensely curious about joining the army some day but more interested in the covert ops division. I have no desire in random killings like you would get in a battlefield. I'm more interested in surgical-precision work where you don't need to kill to achieve your objective unless absolutely necessary and I can assume the more specialized divisions would involve more martial arts training.

I have the fitness level of a professional endurance athlete though. Lean body mass and a little bit underweight. I'm not a professional athlete though, just the same fitness level and performance.