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Does anyone have any hope of changing peoples minds about Trump?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by perplexed, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that will work. You and I both believe it is a fact that the earth is an oblate spheroid. But others believe it is a fact that the earth is flat. Only one of these is truly a fact. But since some believe that it is, and some believe that it isn't, it gets debated. Not debated in the sense that the fact could change, because if it's a true fact, it can't. But it still gets debated. This is what I mean when I say that facts and data are debatable.
     
  2. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    I think I understand. You are not stating that the facts are debatable per se but that people might have an incorrect understanding of what the facts are and so wish to debate based off a mistaken idea of the data. Is that correct?
     
  3. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much, yes. Obviously, a real fact isn't going to be debatable in the sense that the fact could actually change or is ___(I can't think of the word). But for almost everything out there that people call a fact, whether it actually is or not, there will always be someone to debate it.
     
  4. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    Agreed -- but what separates a fact from an opinion (at least in my opinion), is that a fact can be exclusively and objectively proven to be true. What happens, then, who someone debating a fact is presented with this proof and yet persists in believing in their own error?
     
  5. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

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    But can they continue to believe the lie once they realize that it is a lie?
     
  6. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    But they don't "realize" it's a lie because they refuse to.

    Some people are simply too proud to ever admit an error. Others are too insecure -- they believe that admitting an error is a sign of weakness, and they're afraid of ever looking "weak."
     
  7. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    or is ___


    Immutable?
     
  8. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, the proof is usually debatable. Take the round vs. flat earth example. Those of us who believe the earth is an oblate spheroid would cite proof that it is a fact that the earth is such. But those who believe in a flat earth will debate that proof, and thus the fact, and will cite their own proof for a flat earth, which is then debated by the others.
     
  9. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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    In a way, I believe you can. You can put truth deep down in your heart, and refuse to see things, even though, deep down, you know the truth.
     
  10. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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    Not the word I was thinking of. It's on the tip of my tongue, I just can't place it.
     
  11. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath

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    Learning how to be w, wr, wro, wrong, is the often first step to growth.
     
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  12. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath

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    You’re trying to use “truth” in two differing ways here without defining each case, no wonder you’re having trouble.
     
  13. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Lots of people have changed their minds concerning Trump; just keep in mind change goes both ways.
     
  14. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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    No I'm not, you're just misunderstanding me. When I say they put the truth deep down in their heart, I am meaning that they suppress it. They refuse to acknowledge it, but deep down, they know.
     
  15. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath

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    Gimme an example.
     
  16. Under One King

    Under One King Well-Known Member

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  17. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

    +25,137
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    True, when the proof doesn't support them, they'll attack the proof.

    In the "round vs. flat Earth" case, one could, for example, simply ask an astronaut, who will invariably say, "Yep, it's round; I checked."

    The flat-Earther will accuse the astronaut of lying rather than admit defeat. Want some real fun? Ask them why the astronaut is lying...
     
  18. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    ...and the hardest.
     
  19. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

    +25,137
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    Only "both"? Change goes every which way.
     
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