Does anyone else find the term offensive?

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overit

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I really dont understand why you ladies are assuming we think you are bad parents. Why take offense at something aimed at bad parents?

Maybe you are just ignoring our explainations because you want to be offended.
Well, when you say the "I was bingoed" so they're a breeder for example, I assumed that I was called breeder. It's actually quite offensive, unfair and ignorant to call a parent you know nothing about breeder don't you think? I would not offend a childfree couple, because, as explained on the other forum, I have nothing against you, I see no problem, it's your life, your choice. I can see people disagreeing on issues respectfully, but just because somebody used a line I didn't agree with or heard a million times before, doesn't give me the right to insult them with terms like breeder.

So, question, if somebody "bingoes" you on a forum, and you know nothing about them, you can call them breeder? or, bad parent? How can you judge that when nothing is known about the parent. Also, how do you determine who's a bad parent? Are you in a restaurant, mall or whatever, see a child misbehave and assume the parent is "bad" or breeder? Is it a pattern of behavior that you carefuly observe, or just use general blanket statements? I'm asking sincerely, and would appreciate a very honest answer as well.
Is the term just thrown around lightly, how do you judge, for how long, in how many circumstances (out/home, etc) and come to the conclusion. What's the "process" of coming to that conclusion?
 
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3Princessmom

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3princessmom,

Actually, no they wouldn't.

Childfree's definition (at least on CF, as evidenced by that 'sticky' post) is a person or couple who CHOOSE not to have children, or to raise children at all. A deliberate choice, that is not for infertility reasons, or whatever.

As that sticky post says - people who want children, but can't for whatever reason are not who this board is for. They are quite welcome to post with respect - but the subforum is specifically for those in the community that are deliberately choosing to not have children.

I think there's a request floating around to have a subforum for those who are infertile/childLESS, rather than childFREE... ;)

Sasch
One could say that a person is choosing to be childfree if they are choosing no fertility treatments. Personally, I would consider it a choice to be childfree if I refused treatments for infertility. (which I have done before, and I assure you it was a choice and I was not the victim of my circumstances) I'm just saying it's all about how you look at it.

And for the record, I'm not trying to "go to bat" for these people. I am absolutely against all forms of birth control and sterilization. I am totally quiverfull. But after expierencing infertility and miscarriage I refuse to judge anyone who does not have children, unless they openly admit they are only not having children for selfish reasons. ;)
 
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gracepaints

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Childfree's definition (at least on CF, as evidenced by that 'sticky' post) is a person or couple who CHOOSE not to have children, or to raise children at all. A deliberate choice, that is not for infertility reasons, or whatever.

As that sticky post says - people who want children, but can't for whatever reason are not who this board is for. They are quite welcome to post with respect - but the subforum is specifically for those in the community that are deliberately choosing to not have children.

I hate to contribute to derailing this thread but WHAT sticky? I'm looking at the forum right now and I see no sticky.

The subforum participants discussed what they wanted the definition of 'Childfree' to be and mentioned a sticky, but I don't see one - which means this definition of 'Childfree' has not been endorsed by CF as the standard to say who this forum is and is not for.

If the forum regulars want to be exclusive and have a sticky posted to that effect, they need to bring the appropriate staff attention to it and get it made official.
 
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HeatherJay

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And for the record, I'm not trying to "go to bat" for these people. I am absolutely against all forms of birth control and sterilization. I am totally quiverfull. But after expierencing infertility and miscarriage I refuse to judge anyone who does not have children, unless they openly admit they are only not having children for selfish reasons. ;)

Personally, I refuse to judge them even if they openly admit that they don't want children for "selfish" reasons. Seriously, it's they're life, it's their choice...as I said in another thread, my path is my own, as is everyone's. I'm not judging ANYONE no matter their reasons for making their decision to be childfree. And I don't think it's right for anyone to judge them based on that, regardless of the details.

This is a perfect example of why the childfree forum was necessary...to provide a safe-haven from this sort of attitude, that their decisions not to have children somehow made them less than proper members of society, or worse, less than proper Christians.

My beef with some of the threads in that forum has nothing to do with the choice to voluntarily remain childfree...it has to do with what I perceive to be disrespectful and belittling comments.

But, I feel like we're all talking and expressing what hurts us and why, and we're all hearing the other side and making concessions...and I think that's really promising and encouraging. :hug:
 
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HeatherJay

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I think the same might be said for many places at CF where those who don't share that common bond read some posts and come out with a different perception than held by the members of that forum community.
I'm horrible at hypotheticals...specifics, please. :)
 
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someone_else

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One could say that a person is choosing to be childfree if they are choosing no fertility treatments. Personally, I would consider it a choice to be childfree if I refused treatments for infertility. (which I have done before, and I assure you it was a choice and I was not the victim of my circumstances) I'm just saying it's all about how you look at it.

not everyone can afford the fertitlity treatments needed to have children. and you cant always chosse

i find the chldree fourm very focused on people who chosse not to have children there is not much there for people who cant. but hey how big do they want this fourm to get they cant just keep making new sections to fit every person
 
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fuzzymel

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Well, when you say the "I was bingoed" so they're a breeder for example, I assumed that I was called breeder. It's actually quite offensive, unfair and ignorant to call a parent you know nothing about breeder don't you think? I would not offend a childfree couple, because, as explained on the other forum, I have nothing against you, I see no problem, it's your life, your choice. I can see people disagreeing on issues respectfully, but just because somebody used a line I didn't agree with or heard a million times before, doesn't give me the right to insult them with terms like breeder.

So, question, if somebody "bingoes" you on a forum, and you know nothing about them, you can call them breeder? or, bad parent? How can you judge that when nothing is known about the parent. Also, how do you determine who's a bad parent? Are you in a restaurant, mall or whatever, see a child misbehave and assume the parent is "bad" or breeder? Is it a pattern of behavior that you carefuly observe, or just use general blanket statements? I'm asking sincerely, and would appreciate a very honest answer as well.
Is the term just thrown around lightly, how do you judge, for how long, in how many circumstances (out/home, etc) and come to the conclusion. What's the "process" of coming to that conclusion?
Erm do you even know what a bingo is?

You can get bingoed by non-parents. Bingo has nothing to do with breeder so before going off on a pointless rant please get your facts straight.

Bingo is a bingo, breeder is a bad parent. See totally different.

Bingos are done by people who are ignorant of the childfree. Please look it up before making these insane accusations.

The definition of bingo is:
Bingo means one of the "usual" phrases we hear over and over again, so much so that someone created a bingo-like card to use. As they say the dumb things to you, you cover the blocks on your card until you have Bingo!

Examples of bingos:

When are you going to have kids?

Why don't you have kids?

It's different when they're your own!

My/Your child grow up to cure cancer!

You were a kid once, too!

Don't you want to hear the pitter patter of little feet?

Who will take care of you when you are old?

Why'd you get married if you didn't want kids?

Some day you'll grow up and change your mind.

It's all worth it!

You sound like a sad and bitter person!

If everyone thought the way you did, the population would die out?

If your mom felt like you do, you wouldn't be here!

It's the most important job in the world!

My kids are the best thing that ever happened to me.

You're being selfish!

What about the family name?

You'll change your mind.

People who dont want kids are selfish.

But the bible said 'go forth and multiply'

You childhater.

You'll regret it when your older.

You owe your parents grandkids

You'll probably have at least three

But you're so wonderful, so your kids would be just as brilliant!

Don't you want to have a mini version of You to follow you around?

You'll want kids when you find the right guy/gal.

You don't know what love is until you had a child.

But it's God's Plan!

It's not a real family unless you have children. - this is bolded because it annoys me most at the moment.

It's unnatural not to have children.

I used to think that I didn't want children, but I changed my mind.

But it's your duty as a woman to have children!

Just wait until your biological clock starts ticking.

You're not truly an adult until you have children.

You're just doing this so you can save up and buy a new car.

You're missing out.

You were a child once, too.
 
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HeyHomie

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W/R/T the Sticky (which never made it past the "propsed" stage, which is why there is no sticky; the thread proposing it is on page 5(?) of the Childfree forum):

The reason I suggested narrowing down the definition was not to be exclusionary. I just wanted to make sure that the forum didn't get bogged down in discussion of fertility treatments, mourning over absent children, and similar misery and woe. Not that I don't feel for people who want children and can't have them, just that I didn't feel that our sub-forum was conducive to that purpose. I maintained then (as I maintain now) that the TTC forum is for that. But hey, if the mods want to add a Childless sub-forum, it's none of my business.

As always, anyone is free to post in that forum, as long as they're respectful. Even someone who is childless and desperately wants children is free to post there. I just don't want to see posts such as "Being unable to have children is a horrible and painful condition. It hurts me that you guys treat it as something to be desired!"
 
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overit

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Fuzzymel, first of all, calm down a bit ;)
If I misunderstood the bingoed/breeder, I apologize, I believed that anybody that "bingoed" you was considered a breeder (or bad parent). Personally I hear all these definitions of parents and shock my head in amazement but hey.

Do you care though to perhaps address my question, how do YOU determine who is a bad parent, a breeder, what defines it, how much exposure to the child/parent, is it people you know, hear about, see once, see twice, see only in one environment, how is it determined somebody is a breeder/bad parent. Is it just a generalization or how would you know if a person with many kids is using state help unless you personally handle the finances? What if they had 5-6 kids and the husband lost the job, and they go an assitance...if they come to the church and this is how you meet them, would you assume they are breeders w/out knowing about them entirely? How much of these "breeders" lives do you know to make such a statement of "bad parent" or "breeder". Just curious, the statement seems thrown around lightly in conversations among childfree couples (and other forums as well)...so I always wonder how they determine and what/who gives them the right to judge. Do these "breeders" sit around observing others and making determinations if they are a good enough brother/sister/child/niece/uncle/grandchild, etc? Are parents just easy targets? Do you judge all peoples relationships and determine who is "bad"?

Example, somebody may be an excellent wife and yet be a horrible daughter or niece, they could be an excellent father and be a lousy husband or bad to his friends.
How exactly and why exactly do we think we can judge people's character so lightly? Doesn't this come back to us maybe focusing on our own lives and what we could do better? It's a sincere question.
 
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ufonium2

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I've been called a "breeder" for simply being a married heterosexual. I didn't even have a kid at the time. In fact, I thought homosexuals were the only people to use the term. And they don't use it necessarily to indicate a bad parent, just a parent or even someone who might someday be a parent.

So while I believe the childfree here when they say that they don't mean it as a blanket insult to all parents, I think it bears mentioning that there is another group using the term "breeder" in a very derogatory way and applying it with no consideration of parenting ability at all. With that in mind, I would suggest that you might want to find another term to throw around. I mean, my friends and I can decide that we are going to use the term "honky" only for really mean, smelly white people, but I don't think we have a right to be surprised if someone got offended hearing us talk about how we hate honkies.

(By the way, I have nothing against honkies, smelly or otherwise. In fact, I'm so white I'm almost transparent. It's just an example.)
 
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HeatherJay

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Bingos are done by people who are ignorant of the childfree.

I don't think that's fair, Mel. Some of those "bingos" are just random chit/chat type questions that people sometimes ask. And I do understand how they can get annoying if you don't plan on ever having children...but I think it's really unfair to call the people (95% of whom ask them very innocently) ignorant. And this is the sort of remark that I find more offensive than the term "breeder."
 
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jgonz

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I get asked all sorts of personal questions that are no one's business too... That's part of Life.

Are you going to have any more kids?

How many kids do you plan to have?

Don't you know what Causes pregnancy?

Don't you own a TV?

Of course you're done! Good heavens!

You can't Possibly WANT another child?!?

How could you Possibly have Time for all those kids?

You must be Superwoman!

You're a Saint!

You're Insane!

Your husband must make a lot of money!

You must be on Welfare to afford them all.

How do you Feed all those kids?

etc etc etc etc etc...

And I'm sure other moms here have heard them all too. A mom with 1 son gets asked if she's going to "try for" a girl.
A mom with 1 daughter gets asked if she's going to "try for" a son.
Once a mom has 1 boy & 1 girl, she gets told she must be done since she has one of each.... Blah Blah Blah.

Like I said, it's part of Life (unfortunately) to get asked Stupid questions that are no one's business. People either have no filter on their mouths, or they genuinely are interested, or they are just trying to make conversation and don't know what else to say. :sleep:
 
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And I'm sure other moms here have heard them all too. A mom with 1 son gets asked if she's going to "try for" a girl.
A mom with 1 daughter gets asked if she's going to "try for" a son.
Once a mom has 1 boy & 1 girl, she gets told she must be done since she has one of each.... Blah Blah Blah.

Like I said, it's part of Life (unfortunately) to get asked Stupid questions that are no one's business. People either have no filter on their mouths, or they genuinely are interested, or they are just trying to make conversation and don't know what else to say. :sleep:

I am a mom with two boys, and I always get asked if I'm going to try for a girl. I even had someone tell me that you really can't experience motherhood until you have a daughter because they are much more sensitive to you than boys are. So whether you have kids or not, you're always going to hear a bunch of stupid stuff from people that you don't want to hear. You just have to grit your teeth and ignore it.
 
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oliveplants

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I'm horrible at hypotheticals...specifics, please. :)
I like specifics, too!

For instance, a 'liberal' Christian might wander into the 'fundamentalist churches' forum and go back into wwmc saying fundies think anyone who doesn't read the KJV is going straight to hell.

Or a skinny man could go into the plus-size women forum and think we are all obsessed with diet and excercise, just not very good at it.

LIke that. The subforums are for like-minded (or like-situationed) people to discuss what they have in common, and someone who isn't in those shoes would easily be amused, offended, or confused.
 
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