Does a Holy God intend to punish sin ?

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As far as the Judgment goes, I suspect this may be applicable:

John 3:18–19 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."
 
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d taylor

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Here is what Calvinist and others of this Bible theology are saying. A person commits a crime and goes to trial and is found guilty, and is sentenced to 25 years.

Jesus stands up and approaches the bench and tell the judge that He will serve this persons sentence and Jesus does.

Now what Calvinist and others are saying is, after Jesus has served the 25 years in prison, when Jesus is released. The judge calls up the person who originally commented the crime and tells him he must spend 25 years in jail to serve his sentence.
 
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Here is what Calvinist and others of this Bible theology are saying. A person commits a crime and goes to trial and is found guilty, and is sentenced to 25 years.

Jesus stands up and approaches the bench and tell the judge that He will serve this persons sentence and Jesus does.

Now what Calvinist and others are saying is, after Jesus has served the 25 years in prison, when Jesus is released. The judge calls up the person who originally commented the crime and tells him he must spend 25 years in jail to serve his sentence.
One issue. Calvinists do not believe the judge sentences the guy. They believe the ones sentenced are the ones for whom Jesus did not serve the sentence.

And Calvinism is worse than that. It perverts justice.

Illustration: A man molests and kills a 2 year old girl and is caught. At the trial he is sentenced to death. An innocent man steps up and volunteers to take that man's sentence. The judge believes justice is served as long as the sin is punished. The innocent man is killed and the murderer is set free and forgiven.

Another illustration - you punch me in the nose. I want to forgive you, but I also want to be just. So I punch another person in the nose and forgive you.
 
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d taylor

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One issue. Calvinists do not believe the judge sentences the guy. They believe the ones sentenced are the ones for whom Jesus did not serve the sentence.

And Calvinism is worse than that. It perverts justice.

Illustration: A man molests and kills a 2 year old girl and is caught. At the trial he is sentenced to death. An innocent man steps up and volunteers to take that man's sentence. The judge believes justice is served as long as the sin is punished. The innocent man is killed and the murderer is set free and forgiven.

Another illustration - you punch me in the nose. I want to forgive you, but I also want to be just. So I punch another person in the nose and forgive you.

Right, slight over look on my part.

If a person can not believe verses in The Bible that plainly state all sins are forgiven. There is really no illustration that could do any better.
 
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Ligurian

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Jesus plainly stated it is finished.

Context for that quote:

John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop and put it to His mouth.[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the Spirit.

Which scripture was fulfilled with the hyssop?

Exodus 12:21-22 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover.[22] And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning.LXX

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till Heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be (γένηται) fulfilled.KJV (genetai... generated... This Heaven and Earth don't pass away until the New Heaven and Earth are generated.)

Did Heaven and Earth pass away at the cross?
Oddly enough, nobody ever answers this question.
 
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Ligurian

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Nonsense. He died once for all according to scripture.

Which Scriptures say that?

The NIV Romans 6:10 says "once for all...".
But that's not what the Greek says, in Textus Receptus:
10 ὃ γὰρ ἀπέθανε, τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ ἀπέθανεν ἐφάπαξ,...

Died for many:

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
 
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renniks

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Which Scriptures say that?

The NIV Romans 6:10 says "once for all...".
But that's not what the Greek says, in Textus Receptus:
10 ὃ γὰρ ἀπέθανε, τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ ἀπέθανεν ἐφάπαξ,...

Died for many:

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,"

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.



2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
 
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I think we should also consider;

1 Peter 1:17–19 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

This passage seems to indicate that the works of the believer (this is addressed to believers) will be judged. And this should be a concern for how we conduct ourselves.

Christians, of course, may sin. But our lives are not marked by sin. We have an Advocate in Christ.
 
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Ligurian

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"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,"

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15
For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Context destroys your 2nd quote:

2 Peter 3:7-9 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.KJV

longsuffering towards the {us} of those verses... not the ungodly men.
...not willing that any {of us} should perish...

The word "bringing" doesn't exist in the Textus Receptus of the 1st quote.
What has only "appeared" is often dismissed... all throughout the Bible.

The 3rd quote is metaphysical... and only all gentiles are meant.

Matthew 1:21, His people... ...John 15:13-14, His friends.
 
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Ligurian

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I think we should also consider;

1 Peter 1:17–19 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

NIV makes it read like a gentile text. It's not.

1 Peter 1:1 to the διασποράς = diaspora...
1 Peter 1:17 παροικίας = sojourn... they're definitely not gentiles.
 
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NIV makes it read like a gentile text. It's not.

1 Peter 1:1 to the διασποράς = diaspora...
1 Peter 1:17 παροικίας = sojourn... they're definitely not gentiles.
I agree. Peter was the apostle to the Jews (the Jewish Christians), most likely in Jerusalem.
 
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renniks

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But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.KJV
Any means " any" "Us" is humanity.
 
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Ligurian

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Context destroys your 2nd quote:

2 Peter 3:7-9 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.KJV

longsuffering towards the {us} of those verses... not the ungodly men.
...not willing that any {of us} should perish...

The word "bringing" doesn't exist in the Textus Receptus of the 1st quote.
What has only "appeared" is often dismissed... all throughout the Bible.

The 3rd quote is metaphysical... and only all gentiles are meant.

Matthew 1:21, His people... ...John 15:13-14, His friends.
Any means " any" "Us" is humanity.

So then, audience means nothing to you.

Lol, seriously? All doesn't mean " all" to a Calvinist.

I'm not a Calvinist, so I'll have to take your word on that.
 
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Ligurian

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I agree. Peter was the apostle to the Jews (the Jewish Christians), most likely in Jerusalem.

Jews means Judah, or the House of Judah. Not even Paul called Peter the apostle to the Jews... he says Peter is apostle to the circumcision.
 
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atpollard

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It is not the acts that demands a response.
Half true:

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both [the number of] their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they [were], was completed. - Revelation 6:9-11 [NKJV]​
 
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atpollard

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You really should affirm your own views without misrepresenting the opposing views ... it may be hard to believe, but Calvinists are Christians and part of the Body of Christ, too.

One issue. Calvinists do not believe the judge sentences the guy. They believe the ones sentenced are the ones for whom Jesus did not serve the sentence.
Correct, Calvinists do not believe that God sentences the saints to punishment.
Do you believe that God sentences the saints to punishment?
What of John 3:18 that states there is no judgement for those that believe?

Illustration: A man molests and kills a 2 year old girl and is caught. At the trial he is sentenced to death. An innocent man steps up and volunteers to take that man's sentence. The judge believes justice is served as long as the sin is punished. The innocent man is killed and the murderer is set free and forgiven.
Are people guilty of sin?
Did Jesus die for our sin?
Was that the "propitiation" of God's Justice? Did it "turn aside" God's wrath?
Was an innocent Christ killed and are guilty sinners set free as a result?
(I suspect you know the gospel better than your post makes it appear.)

Another illustration - you punch me in the nose. I want to forgive you, but I also want to be just. So I punch another person in the nose and forgive you.
Did we (you and I) sin against God (punch Him in the nose)?
Did God punish Jesus (punch Him in the nose)?
Are you and I forgiven because Jesus died on the Cross (was punched in the nose)?

So why don't you explain to me where Calvinism and the Gospel got it wrong and "He was [not] wounded for our transgressions, He was [not] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was [not] upon Him, And by His stripes we are [not] healed." [Isaiah 53:5]
 
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anetazo

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Those with free will have spirit of slumber, documentation, Isaiah chapter 6, and chapter 29, romans chapter 11. The wicked don't have spirit of slumber. Romans chapter 11, God's Election have holy spirit, first Peter chapter 1. First Corinthians chapter 2, you need holy spirit to convict you of sin. Many people have spirit of stupor. I documented this. Why the election?? Romans chapter 8, the Election are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. The position for elect can't be volunteered for. God judged and choose the election in the first earth age. Apparently, some people can't accept the truth or understand.
 
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