Does a Holy God intend to punish sin ?

ICONO'CLAST

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Does God who is Holy pour out His wrath?

Can God be said to be Holy if He does not pour out His Wrath upon all sin?

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
 
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pdudgeon

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Does God who is Holy pour out His wrath?

Can God be said to be Holy if He does not pour out His Wrath upon all sin?

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Yes, there will be a time when this will happen. But rest assured, that before it happens, there will be last opportunities to choose to do what is good and right.
 
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Yes, there will be a time when this will happen. But rest assured, that before it happens, there will be last opportunities to choose to do what is good and right.
I agree. God will certainly condemn the wicked. Before that time it would be best to "die to the flesh" and be "born of the Spirit", no longer the wicked person we once was.
 
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Ligurian

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Yes, there will be a time when this will happen. But rest assured, that before it happens, there will be last opportunities to choose to do what is good and right.

Opportunities

Matthew 11:21-22 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.[22] But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matthew 21:28-32 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons, and He came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in My vineyard.[29] He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.[30] And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.[31] Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto Him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the Kingdom of God before you.[32] For John came unto you in the way of righteousness and ye believed him not, but the publicans and the harlots believed him, and ye when ye had seen it repented not afterward that ye might believe him.

Revelation 2:20-23 [22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed and them that commit adultery with her into Great Tribulation except they repent of their deeds.[23] And I will kill her children with Death, and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts, and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 9:16-21 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.[17] And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.[18] By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.[19] For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
[20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils and idols of gold, and silver and brass, and stone and of wood, which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk.[21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 16:8-9 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun, and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God which hath power over these plagues, and they repented not to give Him glory.KJV
 
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d taylor

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Sin is not a thing that can be punished. A person can be punished for a sin they committed.

But as for sin it has already been taken care of on the cross all sin past, present and future has been paid for by Jesus. Why does it need to be paid for again, Jesus plainly stated it is finished.
 
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pdudgeon

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I agree. God will certainly condemn the wicked. Before that time it would be best to "die to the flesh" and be "born of the Spirit", no longer the wicked person we once was.
But remember, the most effective changes happen when we look in a mirror, and we see ourselves as we truly are. That way we get an unbiased perspective of our true selves.

Without that true view, we can convince ourselves that:
"We aren't so bad", or
"What's so wrong?? Everyone is like that!"
But the truth will be evident. God will see to that.
 
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But remember, the most effective changes happen when we look in a mirror, and we see ourselves as we truly are. That way we get an unbiased perspective of our true selves.

Without that true view, we can convince ourselves that:
"We aren't so bad", or
"What's so wrong?? Everyone is like that!"
But the truth will be evident. God will see to that.
True. What we need is that "Godly sorrow" that leads to repentance.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Yes, there will be a time when this will happen. But rest assured, that before it happens, there will be last opportunities to choose to do what is good and right.
For whom? For those who have already died in their sins? For those who have not had a new heart made in them by the Spirit of God taking up a dwelling within them, and died in that state?

"Rest assured", God's burning purity will do what is right. He will be altogether just, precise and thorough.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Sin is not a thing that can be punished. A person can be punished for a sin they committed.

But as for sin it has already been taken care of on the cross all sin past, present and future has been paid for by Jesus. Why does it need to be paid for again, Jesus plainly stated it is finished.
Jesus did not die for everyones sins.
He died a covenant death and is the only propitiation that will be available to anyone in the world
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Sin is not a thing that can be punished. A person can be punished for a sin they committed.

But as for sin it has already been taken care of on the cross all sin past, present and future has been paid for by Jesus. Why does it need to be paid for again, Jesus plainly stated it is finished.
It is kind of obvious that sins do not commit themselves.
All sins will be punished.
In the sinner, or the Divine substitute.
Those who attempt to deny penal substituionary atonement avoid and are vague about the sin and wrath issue.
This thread is not about vague double talk.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Sin is not a thing that can be punished. A person can be punished for a sin they committed.

But as for sin it has already been taken care of on the cross all sin past, present and future has been paid for by Jesus. Why does it need to be paid for again, Jesus plainly stated it is finished.
Jesus only paid for the sins of those elect persons given to him by the Father.
 
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That's the part that does not make sence.

Yes, sins do not commit themselves. Sins are manifestations of our sinfulness.

When we say a crime needs to be punished we ate talking about punishing the criminal who co.mitted the crime (not the crime itself).

Scripture does the same. Sins are punished or forgiven. But this is talking about the person, not the act.

In other words, it is impossible for God to punish one person for the sins of another. It is not the acts that are punished. It is not the acts that demands a response. It is the one who commits those acts.
 
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Sin is not a thing that can be punished. A person can be punished for a sin they committed.

But as for sin it has already been taken care of on the cross all sin past, present and future has been paid for by Jesus. Why does it need to be paid for again, Jesus plainly stated it is finished.
Exactly.

I don't understand how so many seen to have trouble with this.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Isa53 does not say it is not possible, in fact it teaches it is why the Son was sent.
Those who deny this fact can start their own unbelieving thread.
This thread is focused on the questions in the OP.
This thread is for those who believe Jesus is the God given answer for the wrath of God as Paul described in Romans 1.
 
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Isa53 does not say it is not possible, in fact it teaches it is why the Son was sent.
Those who deny this fact can start their own unbelieving thread.
This thread is focused on the questions in the OP.
This thread is for those who believe Jesus is the God given answer for the wrath of God as Paul described in Romans 1.
No, that is not what Isaiah 53 states.

If it were then you would have presented a passage stating that God punishes sins apart from punishing the sinner.

Consider what Isaiah 53 actually says. Christ bore our transgressions. The Father was pleased to crush Him. By His stripes we are healed.

Now consider what Isaiah 53 dies NOT say. It does not say that God punished Jesus instead of us. It does not say that God punished sins apart from punishing the sinner.

In fact, Scripture places forgiveness of sins on God's mercy when the sinner repents. Your ideas here seen to indicate that sins cannot actually be forgiven.
 
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d taylor

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Jesus only paid for the sins of those elect persons given to him by the Father.

It is plainly stated in The Bible, Jesus took away the sin of the world believers and unbelievers.
 
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d taylor

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Jesus did not die for everyones sins.
He died a covenant death and is the only propitiation that will be available to anyone in the world

It is kind of obvious that sins do not commit themselves.
All sins will be punished.
In the sinner, or the Divine substitute.
Those who attempt to deny penal substituionary atonement avoid and are vague about the sin and wrath issue.
This thread is not about vague double talk.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
 
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d taylor

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What Romans 1 is saying is that God would, through His grace keep sin at bay. But no sinful man rejects God's grace, so God will pour out His wrath on man kind by allowing sin to run its course and run rampant in sinful man. So many may become depraved by sin and as is states.

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.


And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.


Above is what is being seen happening in America now, which i believe began in the late 50's or early 60". The result of letting sin run rampant is depravity and death. I see that in my home town, a town of 15,000 who has a murder rate this year of 17 people being killed. About 2 years ago its was 22 for the year 2020

And this will really be seen in the up and coming tribulation period of the earth and man.
 
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Ceallaigh

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It is plainly stated in The Bible, Jesus took away the sin of the world believers and unbelievers.
Yes it is. Which is why it has been the majority view within Christianity for 2000 years.
 
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