Does 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 teach that we are not saved by faith?

Randy777

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Rev 1:6 ..and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

I think if we are to be truthful Jesus has a God and Jesus Himself, (and He should know), has openly stated so. (the Father)

There is a distinction being made by Paul that isn't captured by orthodox trinity statements
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Push comes to shove the firm foundation of the understanding of the trinity is mystery.

Jesus referring to the Father as the ONLY TRUE GOD
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent

Also Jesus has His own spirit "Father into your hands I commit my Spirit"
THE Fathers promise=>"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

And in acts 2 it was stated that the Spirit Jesus sent into the world He received from the Father and Jesus stated on top of that ,"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

And Jesus made this statement Matt 10:20 ,"for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

So it doesn't surprise me that there are those who object to Jesus as the One true God rather than Christ The Lord who is the image of the invisible God for all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. God in that context. The exact reflection of the wisdom and power of God yet not because He always was God

according to Paul Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. He is before all things and not just first in the resurrection but first in everything except the Father from whom all things come.

and The writer of Hebrews declares "when God brings the firstborn into the world let all Gods angels bow to Him"

and...to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

SO Jesus has a beginning (at some point in history before the world began)but no end. And He was with God in the beginning of creation and the creation was made through Him. and He was ALL that the Father is the exact reflection of gods being for all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. in that context mighty God. Hebrews "about the son" and John 1

Summed up is Jesus God?
He never dies - today you shall be with me in paradise
yes, He is all that the Father is
No, He has always been the Son.

And while Jesus does speak of the holy Spirit as separate from Him the Father does not in fact the Father states "MY SPIRIT" in regard to the Holy Spirit the spirit Jesus was baptized with the spirit that came down from above and remained upon Him. The Spirit that was over the waters in the beginning of the creation when God made the heavens and the earth. The Spirit that performed the miracles at Jesus 's will for He has received such authority from the Father who is the one who sent Him into the world.

And it was the Father in the Son doing His work. Hebrews 1 in these last days God spoken to us by His Son JESUS IS THE WORD OF THE FATHER(God) The word of life.
Jesus=>Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jesus=>For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
 
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...no one can or could get lost and then regenerated again,

Yes, they can.

The "Parable of the Prodigal Son" proves that you can. For when the prodigal son returns home (willing to repent to his father and all of heaven), his father said that his son was dead and he is alive again. This parable is speaking in spiritual terms (of course). His son was dead spiritually when he was in riotous living (i.e. sin). But he became spiritually alive again when he came back home and was willing to repent.

Jude 1:12 speaks of those who are twice dead, plucked up by the roots. They are twice dead because they died once spiritually as a part of being an unbeliever, and they died again spiritually a second time after they fell away from the faith. They once had life because they had roots that were later plucked out.

You said:
...because that is what Hebrews 6 says it would be impossible to renew that person again who tramples under foot the blood of Jesus Christ. Impossible does mean impossible.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is not a "what if scenario that cannot happen." Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about how it is impossible for a believer to reject Christ and renew themselves by repentance if they were once enlightened by the Holy Spirit, etc. Peter did not have the Holy Spirit yet when he denied Christ. Also, in verse 9, the author of Hebrews says this to the read, "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation.." (Hebrews 6:9). So the author of Hebrews is saying to his readers that he is persuaded that there are better things in store for them in regards to salvation. So the situation of apostasy in Hebrews 6:4-6 is not something that his recipients of his letter had done. This means the threat of apostasy is very real and it is not hypothetical.

You said:
And Paul would not have said in Phil 1:6 he was fully persuaded that He who began a good work in Him would perform unto the day of redemption.

Christ who has begun a good work in a believer until the day of the Lord Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6) is in context to... them working out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

In other words, Scripture has to be read as a whole. You cannot focus a laser beam on one text and ignore the rest.

You said:
He said that because he wrote Eph 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. So either this passage is a lie or having trusted after hearing the word of truth the believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit as the guarantee of their inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. And we both know the scriptures do not lie. And no where does one scripture nullify the truth taught somewhere else in the word of God.

I addressed this already to you in post #129.

You said:
There are exceptions but no contradictions. Kings were given the spirit of administration in the OT such as Saul and that gift was taken away, but that was not losing salvation that he never had nor does it say that.

No. Saul lost the mercy (salvation) of God. In 2 Samuel 7:15, God says that His mercy will not depart from Solomon as he took it away from Saul.

“But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.” (2 Samuel 7:15).

I will address the rest your post at another time.

In the mean time, may God’s goodness be upon you.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Yes, they can.

The "Parable of the Prodigal Son" proves that you can. For when the prodigal son returns home (willing to repent to his father and all of heaven), his father said that his son was dead and he is alive again. This parable is speaking in spiritual terms (of course). His son was dead spiritually when he was in riotous living (i.e. sin). But he became spiritually alive again when he came back home and was willing to repent.

Jude 1:12 speaks of those who are twice dead, plucked up by the roots. They are twice dead because they died once spiritually as a part of being an unbeliever, and they died again spiritually a second time after they fell away from the faith.



Hebrews 6:4-6 is not a "what if scenario that cannot happen." Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about how it is impossible for a believer to reject Christ and renew themselves by repentance if they were once enlightened by the Holy Spirit, etc. Peter did not have the Holy Spirit yet when he denied Christ. Also, in verse 9, the author of Hebrews says this to the read, "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation.." (Hebrews 6:9). So the author of Hebrews is saying to his readers that he is persuaded that there are better things in store for them in regards to salvation. So the situation of apostasy in Hebrews 6:4-6 is not something that his recipients of his letter had done. This means the threat of apostasy is very real and it is not hypothetical.



Christ who has begun a good work in a believer until the day of the Lord Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6) is in context to... them working out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

In other words, Scripture has to be read as a whole. You cannot focus a laser beam on one text and ignore the rest.



I addressed this already to you in post #129.



No. Saul lost the mercy (salvation) of God. In 2 Samuel 7:15, God says that His mercy will not depart from Solomon as he took it away from Saul.

“But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.” (2 Samuel 7:15).

I will address the rest your post at another time.

In the mean time, may God’s goodness be upon you.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. But those who are saved the context goes on to say in v9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
 
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Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. But those who are saved the context goes on to say in v9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

Yes, it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and PARTAKERS of the Holy Spirit and the powers of the age to come to renew them again unto repentance. Meaning, you need to meet ALL of these qualifications in order to not be able to repent after falling away. If a person experiences all of the above qualifications and they fall away from the faith, they cannot repent of such a thing. They are forever banned from the faith. Apostasy. Meaning you have to deny Jesus and the faith, etc. after having done all those things. So when we talk about fall away from the faith, this is not the same as falling into sin, but it is a denial of Jesus Christ and the things of God. We know from James 5:19-20 that you a believer can renew another backslidden believer back to the faith to the saving of their soul by getting them to repent. For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

Verse 9 is the author of Hebrews talking specifically to those believers he is writing to. He is confident that they have not committed apostasy because they gave no indication that they did apostatize.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Yes, it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and PARTAKERS of the Holy Spirit and the powers of the age to come to renew them again unto repentance. Meaning, you need to meet ALL of these qualifications in order to not be able to repent after falling away. If a person experiences all of the above qualifications and they fall away from the faith, they cannot repent of such a thing. They are forever banned from the faith. Apostasy. Meaning you have to deny Jesus and the faith, etc. after having done all those things. So when we talk about fall away from the faith, this is not the same as falling into sin, but it is a denial of Jesus Christ and the things of God. We know from James 5:19-20 that you a believer can renew another backslidden believer back to the faith to the saving of their soul by getting them to repent. For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

Verse 9 is the author of Hebrews talking specifically to those believers he is writing to. He is confident that they have not committed apostasy because they gave no indication that they did apostatize.

No impossible always means impossible when used. I did not want to post all the chapter, so just posting a few previous verses to get the context, please read in context all of chapter 5 down through chapter 6 if you please. Heb 5:5-6 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 6 As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”. v8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, v12-14 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Now we see that instead of moving on from the new birth and the truths taught of its results we go into chapter 6, 1-3 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection (completion), not laying again the foundation of. repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. The next verses go into showing that if it were possible for a saint to become an ain't, my way of saying, if they could ever be in the lost state again, v6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. It is saying they would have rejected the sacrifice of Jesus, therefore, they could never be born again because they would have rejected the only means of salvation. It is a hypothetical illustration. Once the ain't become saints they have eternal life, which means what eternal means, it can never end otherwise to say God is eternal, would that not cast doubt in some peoples minds? Then v9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
Your illustration bought a different point that is not in the context into the equation, the one here does not say if the fell back into sin, it says they put Him to open shame.
 
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No impossible always means impossible when used. I did not want to post all the chapter, so just posting a few previous verses to get the context, please read in context all of chapter 5 down through chapter 6 if you please. Heb 5:5-6 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 6 As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”. v8-9 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, v12-14 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Now we see that instead of moving on from the new birth and the truths taught of its results we go into chapter 6, 1-3 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection (completion), not laying again the foundation of. repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. The next verses go into showing that if it were possible for a saint to become an ain't, my way of saying, if they could ever be in the lost state again, v6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. It is saying they would have rejected the sacrifice of Jesus, therefore, they could never be born again because they would have rejected the only means of salvation. It is a hypothetical illustration. Once the ain't become saints they have eternal life, which means what eternal means, it can never end otherwise to say God is eternal, would that not cast doubt in some peoples minds?

Yes, repentance is one of things of the foundation of our faith.
But repentance towards WHO?
We sinned against God.
We denied him in being an unbeliever and in some cases we had a false idea or faith about God before coming to the faith.

Also, impossible means impossible. I never said otherwise. Hebrews 6:4-6 is in reference to denying Jesus and the faith after one has:

(a) Once been enlightened.
(b) Tasted the Heavenly gift.
(c) Partaken of the Holy Ghost.
(d) Tasted of the Word of God.
(e) Possessed the powers of the world to come.

(Hebrews 6:4-5).

It is not taking about falling into sin. James 5:19-20 and 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9 talk about restoration if one sins.

Hebrews 6:1 says we repent of a dead faith towards God when we first come to Him.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about apostasy and not falling into sin. Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about denying Jesus and the faith.

Hebrews 3:12 says, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

Hebrews 10:39 says, "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Yes, repentance is one of things of the foundation of our faith.
But repentance towards WHO?
We sinned against God.
We denied him in being an unbeliever and in some cases we had a false idea or faith about God before coming to the faith.

Also, impossible means impossible. I never said otherwise. Hebrews 6:4-6 is in reference to denying Jesus and the faith after one has:

(a) Once been enlightened.
(b) Tasted the Heavenly gift.
(c) Partaken of the Holy Ghost.
(d) Tasted of the Word of God.
(e) Possessed the powers of the world to come.

(Hebrews 6:4-5).

It is not taking about falling into sin. James 5:19-20 and 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9 talk about restoration if one sins.

Hebrews 6:1 says we repent of a dead faith towards God when we first come to Him.
Ok, I can see that these statement have nothing to do with my response from Hebrews 6, repentance toward who? we are talking scriptures aren't we, is this a question, how many different repentance's are in the whole bible?

Also, impossible means impossible. I never said
otherwise. Hebrews 6:4-6 is in reference to denying Jesus and the faith after one has
.
Exactly what I stated. I am retiring from our exchanges unless you get more serious than this, have a great day.
 
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Ok, I can see that these statement have nothing to do with my response from Hebrews 6, repentance toward who? we are talking scriptures aren't we, is this a question, how many different repentance's are in the whole bible?

Also, impossible means impossible. I never said
otherwise. Hebrews 6:4-6 is in reference to denying Jesus and the faith after one has
.
Exactly what I stated. I am retiring from our exchanges unless you get more serious than this, have a great day.

So why are we arguing? You believe as I do that once a person denies Jesus and the faith (after meeting the requirements in Hebrews), they cannot come back to the faith? My guess is that you don't believe that. But if you do... then.... wow. Okay then.
 
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kjw47

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"Jesus saith unto her,
"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.""
(John 20:17).

Is Jesus (Who is God) really saying He has a God?
In other words, does God have a God?

Well, in the beginning of the gospel of John, it says this...

John 1:1-2 KJV - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. The same was in the beginning with God."

In other words, John 20:17 is speaking in a similar way as John 1:1. The Word (Jesus - who is God) was with God the Father.

So when Jesus says... "I ascend unto... my God..." He is acknowledging that He is ascending to the Father who is God in essence in being (as a part of the plurality of the Godhead).

Yet, how can God have a God? Doesn't that imply a possession?
Yes, but Jesus says elsewhere, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
Also, when Jesus uses the word "my" in the words "my God" He is also referring to whom He always obeys, too (Sort of like how a loyal servant always obeys His ruling King).

For Jesus says elsewhere, "... for I do always those things that please him." (John 8:29).
Also, when Jesus claimed to be God, and the Pharisees wanted to kill him for it, Jesus quoted Old Testament Scripture that says, "ye are gods." (i.e. gods = kings) as a way of protecting His mission in going to the cross (John 10:34).



Reality is-- A small g god belongs in the last line of John 1:1-- In the NT where the true living God is spoken of--Ho Theos( The God) Ho Theos was not in the last line Of John 1:1, but it was in the second line. Thus it was not calling the Logos--The God--a god is correct--carries the biblical meaning--Has godlike qualities--This is why-Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus( it is not his power)

Jesus and his Father are one--In purpose--Just as it went on to say that all will be one with God and Jesus--in purpose--The living to do Gods will-Matt 7:21--John 5:30)
 
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kjw47

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While most of what you say I agree with, but not that His blood was not sufficient enough to cover all our sins and the sins of the world. His sacrifice took the punishment for all our sins, Heb 10:14 for by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit at thej new birth, once for all time unto the day of redemption. Just because one does not believe that does not make it void. And Rom 8:28 through the rest of that chapter states that nothing shall separated us from the love of God. And nothing means nothing, even though that is not a license to sin and many will say to Him Lord, Lord and you know the rest will not be heaven not because they gave up, or lost their salvation, its because like He said, I never knew you, Matt 7:21-23


The reality you are missing is that--The wages sin pays is death--So all who died paid their own wages of sin.
It does not teach--those gave up--it shows the opposite in fact--They were doing powerful works and the such--That is not giving up.
34,000 religions claiming to be Christian, all claim to have HS--is the HS that confused--No mortals twisted it into oblivion because they do not have HS.
Jesus began a single religion-1Cor 1:10)--its the only one that has Jesus and gets- HS.
 
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kjw47

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If what you say is true, tell me if this is the true God in Ex 3:6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. And in the Strong's word meaning #0430 its says it is in the plural on each time God is used in the verse, and the same word is used too many times for me to count in the OT.


The Hebrew scholars who know a gazillion x more truth about their language, disagree.
The Hebrew scholars have been telling the trinity scholars that the God they teach, does not exist, for the last 1600 years or so.--The Hebrew scholars are correct.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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The Hebrew scholars who know a gazillion x more truth about their language, disagree.
The Hebrew scholars have been telling the trinity scholars that the God they teach, does not exist, for the last 1600 years or so.--The Hebrew scholars are correct.
Why as I not surprised that one who does not believe in the Trinity doesn't believe the scriptures are inspired by the one true God! Besides that, I would imagine you won't be around here much longer!:wave:
 
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Rev 1:6 ..and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

I think if we are to be truthful Jesus has a God and Jesus Himself, (and He should know), has openly stated so. (the Father)

There is a distinction being made by Paul that isn't captured by orthodox trinity statements
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Push comes to shove the firm foundation of the understanding of the trinity is mystery.

Jesus referring to the Father as the ONLY TRUE GOD
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent

Also Jesus has His own spirit "Father into your hands I commit my Spirit"
THE Fathers promise=>"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

And in acts 2 it was stated that the Spirit Jesus sent into the world He received from the Father and Jesus stated on top of that ,"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever"

And Jesus made this statement Matt 10:20 ,"for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

So it doesn't surprise me that there are those who object to Jesus as the One true God rather than Christ The Lord who is the image of the invisible God for all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. God in that context. The exact reflection of the wisdom and power of God yet not because He always was God

according to Paul Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. He is before all things and not just first in the resurrection but first in everything except the Father from whom all things come.

and The writer of Hebrews declares "when God brings the firstborn into the world let all Gods angels bow to Him"

and...to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

SO Jesus has a beginning (at some point in history before the world began)but no end. And He was with God in the beginning of creation and the creation was made through Him. and He was ALL that the Father is the exact reflection of gods being for all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. in that context mighty God. Hebrews "about the son" and John 1

Summed up is Jesus God?
He never dies - today you shall be with me in paradise
yes, He is all that the Father is
No, He has always been the Son.

And while Jesus does speak of the holy Spirit as separate from Him the Father does not in fact the Father states "MY SPIRIT" in regard to the Holy Spirit the spirit Jesus was baptized with the spirit that came down from above and remained upon Him. The Spirit that was over the waters in the beginning of the creation when God made the heavens and the earth. The Spirit that performed the miracles at Jesus 's will for He has received such authority from the Father who is the one who sent Him into the world.

And it was the Father in the Son doing His work. Hebrews 1 in these last days God spoken to us by His Son JESUS IS THE WORD OF THE FATHER(God) The word of life.
Jesus=>Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jesus=>For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
Reality is-- A small g god belongs in the last line of John 1:1-- In the NT where the true living God is spoken of--Ho Theos( The God) Ho Theos was not in the last line Of John 1:1, but it was in the second line. Thus it was not calling the Logos--The God--a god is correct--carries the biblical meaning--Has godlike qualities--This is why-Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus( it is not his power)

Jesus and his Father are one--In purpose--Just as it went on to say that all will be one with God and Jesus--in purpose--The living to do Gods will-Matt 7:21--John 5:30)

Non-Trinitarianism is allowed to be discussed in the "Christianity and World Religion" forum section and it is not allowed to be discussed here in the "Controversial Christian Theology" forum section.

Check out the forum statement of purpose here.
 
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Non-Trinitarianism is allowed to be discussed in the "Christianity and World Religion" forum section and it is not allowed to be discussed here in the "Controversial Christian Theology" forum section.

Check out the forum statement of purpose here.
Very well but I believe in the Father, Son , Holy Spirit I see their relationship differently.
 
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kjw47

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Why as I not surprised that one who does not believe in the Trinity doesn't believe the scriptures are inspired by the one true God! Besides that, I would imagine you won't be around here much longer!:wave:



Facts prove 0 trinity god exists

From Moses on up until this very day, in every synagogue and temple--The Israelites--taught, served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH,YHVH,Jehovah)--This was the God Jesus went to serve and was taught his first 30 years attending those synagogues and temples. God did not change, Jesus changed the religion, The religion that came out of Rome changed God into a trinity, and translated that belief into their translating.
 
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kjw47

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Why as I not surprised that one who does not believe in the Trinity doesn't believe the scriptures are inspired by the one true God! Besides that, I would imagine you won't be around here much longer!:wave:



Many trinity sights have kicked me out for showing what Jesus actually taught.
 
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Randy777

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Facts prove 0 trinity god exists

From Moses on up until this very day, in every synagogue and temple--The Israelites--taught, served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH,YHVH,Jehovah)--This was the God Jesus went to serve and was taught his first 30 years attending those synagogues and temples. God did not change, Jesus changed the religion, The religion that came out of Rome changed God into a trinity, and translated that belief into their translating.
Jesus is ALL that the Father is for all the fullness of God the Father was pleased to dwell in Him and the creation was made through Him. He and the Father are One for it was and is the Father living in Him doing His work. Context therefore defines the answer yes or no in regard to Jesus being called God.

He never dies.
yes, He is all that the Father is
No, He has always been the Son.

I believe the new covenant introduced in Jesus's blood opened up a new message of the life being offered not whether Jesus was God and God gave proof by raising Jesus from the dead. Those who have a sincere faith in Him are not deterred by the orthodox version of the trinity. It has never bothered me nor stopped me from loving and believing in the Lord. IN fact as far back as my memory goes I have believed and loved Jesus long before issues such as the trinity came to my attention. And as Jesus stated His sheep hear His voice.

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Though no one in heaven and earth or under the earth rises up or sits down apart from the WILL of Christ Jesus, (except the One who gave Him that authority), Jesus abides within the framework of the Fathers will. It is His Fathers will to raise up on the last day all those the Father has given Him.

This is the new message of life being sent to all the world.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
 
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Now does this teach that we are not saved by our faith?

I think good way to understand the meaning of faith is to look at these examples:

By faith, Noah, being warned about things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his house, through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. By faith, Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out to the place which he was to receive for an inheritance. He went out, not knowing where he went. By faith, he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise. By faith, he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise. For he looked for the city which has the foundations, whose builder and maker is God. By faith, even Sarah herself received power to conceive, and she bore a child when she was past age, since she counted him faithful who had promised.
Heb. 11:7-11

Faith is not in contradiction with works, because works are the result of the faith. For example, Noah was faithful/loyal to God, even though he didn’t yet see the flood. He trusted to God and did what God had told him and that way he showed his faith and his faith was seen in the actions that before the flood may have looked ridiculous.

Same is with us, we don’t yet see the end, but we are to be faithful to God and remain in His words. And when we have faith in God, we live by his word. :)
 
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