Doctrine of Election

[Imblessed]

But they did Choose Him. All Israel chose God on Mount Sinai. They told Moses "all the Lord has said we will do" only don't let Him talk to us any more. They are the ones that asked for a mediator between God and man.

yea, they choose Him AFTER He brought them out of Egypt--and God chose THEM to bring out of Egypt, not another group of people.

Only the Israelites that sought God by faith as Aberham did are saved and part of spiritual Israel the Church. Not the ones that sought Him by the keeping of the Law.

Not only was all Israel as a nation acountiable to God. But it also was even more personal than that, each individual, same as with us, was accountiable for their personal relationship with God.

I won't disagree with you there.

The Old Testament Jews, who were part of the elect nation had a personal/individual obligation to "choose" to follow the dictates of the law. Along with following God by faith. For the law did not save anyone. The perpous of the law was to lead one to Jesus Christ.

yes, they had to follow the dictates of the Law, and yes the purpose was to lead them to Christ, and no, not all of them obeyed----but get my point here, at this time the REST of the world was not included, nor invited. You had to BECOME jew to join in. And the only way that happened is if you happened to marry into or become a slave of, they didnt' exactly go around inviting everyone they saw to become jewish.

The fact that man can and does "choose" whether or not to obey/accept God is absolutely clear from scripture, which no gymnastics required.

Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

The option is there, the choice is for man. When he does not choose the fear of the Lord he is guilty. When he stands before the Lord at judgement he will be guilty.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Yes, choice is involved, no Calvinist will deny that. But we only choose what our hearts most desire at any given moment.

I choose every day whether to furthur my walk with God. If I choose not to go to church every week, if I choose not to post on this site, if I choose not to read the bible, if I choose not to pray--all of these things would ruin my relationship with God, but I choose to do all of these things because it is what i most desire, and I know that God put that desire into my heart.

I'm a lazy person, I went for years a nominal, surface christian. What changed? God put it in my heart to be closer to him. I still struggle with it, but my desire to know Him outweighs my desire to be lazy and not got thru the struggles and trials that involve knowing Him more fully.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering[people work] spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

election of unbelievers... who have not believed yet that will

 

[eldermike]

Try this for a thought: The plan of salvation and the entity of the church were predestined before the foundations of the world...NOT individual believers.

I like this, and I think this is where we get off track in discussing things about God's plan for salvation. It's finished, meaning that anyone who believes in the future is included already. In John 17 Jesus thanked the Father for those who have been given to Him and those that will be given to Him (future). God already knows them.

I learned alot of doctrine from the old hymns. They still have value today.

I love this old one.
Josiah Conder 1863

My Lord, I did not choose You,
For that could never be;
My heart would still refuse You,
Had You not chosen me.
You took the sin that stained me,
You cleansed me, made me new;
Of old You have ordained me,
That I should live in You.

Unless Your grace had called me
And taught my op’ning mind,
The world would have enthralled me,
To heav’nly glories blind.
My heart knows none above You;
For Your rich grace I thirst;
I know that if I love You,
You must have loved me first.