doctors call to ban smacking children!

[ebia]

Everyone has become so over sensitive and politically correct when it comes to kids that there is no proper way to discipline your children effectively to ensure they grow up to be decent and respectful adults.

The only way you can imagine to teach someone to behave well is to behave badly towards them?

Have you seen kids today? They are completely feral with this overwhelming sense of entitlement and power. They are increasingly horrible to each other as well.

People have been saying that at least since Aristotle.

 

[elephunky]

The only way you can imagine to teach someone to behave well is to behave badly towards them?

Of course not. No one method should be employed. A range of methods should be employed.

I think if they are looking to ban smacking, they need to teach parents what to do instead of smacking that will be just as effective.

People have been saying that at least since Aristotle.

So? Doesnt change the fact they are super feral. I am sick of my brother getting bullied and nothing being done about it. If he retaliates he is the one that busted. Its ridiculous.

 

[ebia]

Of course not. No one method should be employed. A range of methods should be employed. I think if they are looking to ban smacking, they need to teach parents what to do instead of smacking that will be just as effective.

Much more effective, I would hope.

So?

So there have always been feral kids - the kids aren't changing, but our perception changes as we age.

 

[elephunky]

Much more effective, I would hope.

What would you suggest in place of smacking for children under the age of 5?

So there have always been feral kids - the kids aren't changing, but our perception changes as we age.

It is indeed changing, my experiences and the experiences of the people I went to school with are no where near what is being experienced today.

 

[ebia]

What would you suggest in place of smacking for children under the age of 5?

If you think that question can be answered effectively without a whole mass of context that's kind of worrying.

It is indeed changing, my experiences and the experiences of the people I went to school with are no where near what is being experienced today.

No, what has shifted is your perception.

Every generation for over 2000 years as thought the kids today were worse than they were before, but there is no objective evidence to show any significant change whatsoever.

 

[elephunky]

If you think that question can be answered effectively without a whole mass of context that's kind of worrying.

Well...what if your 2 year old was trying to touch a heater that was on.
Or...what if your 4 year old was trying to strangle your cat.
Or...what if your 3 year old pee'd on your lounge?

No, what has shifted is your perception.

Every generation for over 2000 years as thought the kids today were worse than they were before, but there is no objective evidence to show any significant change whatsoever.

I bet there is evidence of some sort to show it. Just a matter of finding it.

 

[ebia]

Well...what if your 2 year old was trying to touch a heater that was on.

Remove him away from the heater and either arrange things so he can't get to it or buy a safe one, and get across to him that touching the heater will hurt.

Or...what if your 4 year old was trying to strangle your cat.

You should be able to get across why one doesn't hurt beings without hurting the very person you are trying to teach not to hurt.

Or...what if your 3 year old pee'd on your lounge?

Clean it up

I bet there is evidence of some sort to show it. Just a matter of finding it.

It's not possible for it to be right - 200 x large changes would be so massive there would be no civilisation left.

 

[elephunky]

Remove him away from the heater and either arrange things so he can't get to it or buy a safe one, and get across to him that touching the heater will hurt.

And if he keeps running up to it regardless?

You should be able to get across why one doesn't hurt beings without hurting the very person you are trying to teach not to hurt.

That does not answer the question. If you found your kid on more than one occassion trying to strangle or smacking a pet...what would you do?

Clean it up

And? The kid intentionally peed on the couch...what would you do?

 

[Serendipity..]

Christians insist the public beat little children for sinning or misbehaving! Imagine that on the news! It is not a good look..

 

[TheDag]

We do - it's called prison.

Not that such punishment is ideal by a long way. Just a massive step up from violence.

hey if you want to claim it is different then don't try and argue it is the same. So you claim that if a child is rude they should not be punished at all. Glad we got that straight. Now wonder we can't agree. Two of us have pointed out how children are different to adults and society recognises that. Yet in a later post you argue they are different.

By the way the law does punish children so it isn't just left up to the parents.

 

[ebia]

And if he keeps running up to it regardless?

And you beat the living .... out of him and he keeps doing it?

This is a pointless game - if you really can't think of any alternative way of saying "don't do that because..." then nothing I will say will convince you otherwise.

If I make suggestions all you will do is say "and what if that doesn't work", to which the response will be "try something else". Hurting a kid to teach them that hurting is wrong is doomed to fail; other strategies might work.

 

[elephunky]

And you beat the living .... out of him and he keeps doing it?

This is a pointless game - if you really can't think of any alternative way of saying "don't do that because..." then nothing I will say will convince you otherwise.

If I make suggestions all you will do is say "and what if that doesn't work", to which the response will be "try something else". Hurting a kid to teach them that hurting is wrong is doomed to fail; other strategies might work.

Did I say beat? I did not say anything about beating. A smack on the hand would be enough to deter him.

It is not a game. It is a serious look at what the alternative would be. You seem to be annoyed because you cannot respond with an good solution.

 

[ebia]

Did I say beat? I did not say anything about beating. A smack on the hand would be enough to deter him.

It might. Or it might not. Or it might cause more problem.

You seem to be annoyed because you cannot respond with an good solution.

Behavioural education doesn't have guaranteed solutions. Hitting doesn't become a solution, let alone an acceptable one, just because of that.

 

[elephunky]

It might. Or it might not. Or it might cause more problem.

Behavioural education doesn't have guaranteed solutions. Hitting doesn't become a solution, let alone an acceptable one, just because of that.

It worked with my little brother. He kept hitting the cat. He got a smack on the hand. He didnt like the smack on the hand. He didnt do it again.

There are no guaranteed solution and there is a difference between hitting and a smack on the hand. Smacking should also be a last resort.

 

[ebia]

It worked with my little brother. He kept hitting the cat. He got a smack on the hand. He didnt like the smack on the hand. He didnt do it again.

So he stopped hitting the cat. He didn't learn that its wrong to hurt things - in fact he learned that it's okay to hurt things.

There are no guaranteed solution and there is a difference between hitting and a smack on the hand. Smacking should also be a last resort.

Saying "there is a difference" doesn't make it so. No one has shown there is any difference beyond smacking being a subset of hitting.

 

[elephunky]

So he stopped hitting the cat. He didn't learn that its wrong to hurt things - in fact he learned that it's okay to hurt things.
Saying "there is a difference" doesn't make it so. No one has shown there is any difference beyond smacking being a subset of hitting.

Incorrect. He learnt what it felt like to be smacked, he learnt that when he smacked the cat the cat felt what he feels. He learnt if he didnt want a smack he shouldnt smack the cat.

A smack is usually light. More of a slap. A hit is heavier and involved the whole hand. A belting or beating is intended to make someone hurt as much as possible and is detrimental to psychologcial well being. I have been on the receiving end of all 3. I do not remember the smacks, but I remember the hits and the beltings.

 

[ebia]

Incorrect. He learnt what it felt like to be smacked, he learnt that when he smacked the cat the cat felt what he feels. He learnt if he didnt want a smack he shouldnt smack the cat.

And also that one can use one's greater hitting power to make a point. What he could not possibly learn is that hurting is wrong.

One get at best is compliance, not learning. Very often you won't even get that. At worse you make the behavior worse.

A smack is usually light. More of a slap. A hit is heavier and involved the whole hand. A belting or beating is intended to make someone hurt as much as possible and is detrimental to psychologcial well being. I have been on the receiving end of all 3. I do not remember the smacks, but I remember the hits and the beltings.

Sorry, a hit is anything from a light blow to a very heavy one.

 

[elephunky]

And also that one can use one's greater hitting power to make a point. What he could not possibly learn is that hurting is wrong. One get at best is compliance, not learning. Very often you won't even get that. At worse you make the behavior worse.

Great hitting power? It is a slap on the back of a hand. And he did learn that. It worked with all of us kids.

Sorry, a hit is anything from a light blow to a very heavy one.

It is not a blow.

 

[ebia]

Great hitting power? It is a slap on the back of a hand.

Adult is bigger, stronger, has more authority.

And he did learn that. I.

Not from being hurt he didn't. And clearly you haven't because you are advocating hurting powerless people.

 

[elephunky]

Adult is bigger, stronger, has more authority. Not from being hurt he didn't. And clearly you haven't because you are advocating hurting powerless people.

Bigger and stronger does not been the smack is heavy and physically damaging. It is enough for the kid to go "ooh I did not like that". Not enough to make them cry.

I am not advocating hurting powerless people. I am saying that sometimes you need to give a light smack on a non sensitive area for reasons of discipline with kids who are at an age where reasoning with words cannot be understood. Especially if it is a situation where it could be deter them from doing something that puts them at risk.