doctors call to ban smacking children!

[TheDag]

Complex multilevel problems in society are solved with simplistic easily thought of answers, have you ever noticed that? Just snack kids that will fix everything without introducing new problems..

Simplistic thinking like yours that assumes that is the only method people use is also flawed thinking. Hi pot I'm kettle! If you had asked me a few weeks ago when did I last smack my child I would have responded with I have no idea as it was that long ago. If you are naïve enough to think I have not disciplined my son when he has done the wrong thing in the meantime then perhaps we should not continue this discussion. My son did get a smack the other week for the first time in years. it wasn't done in anger either and most certainly did not hurt him. When I get frustrated and angry I actually walk out of the room and if he follows I have had enough time to say I just need some alone time right now please go back to the other room and then I continue to calm down. Most importantly I model desired behaviour such as when I lectured him about not taking care of things and losing them only to later discover it was me who put his school jacket in the boot of the car not him leaving it in the playground I would then take the jacket to him and tell him where I found it and apologise for blaming him.

 

[TheDag]

Smacking is hitting - your hand connects with the other's body in a manner intended to cause pain. The onus is on the one claiming they are different to demonstrate a difference.

the law acknowledges a difference. If you punch a person you would be charged with assault not grevious bodily harm like you would be if you repeatedly punched them till they were unconscious. We happily acknowledge different levels. Society in general acknowledges a difference. The bible does say spare the rod spoil the child. The rod was something that was used by a shepard to forcibly guide sheep in the right direction. So while the verse is not saying beat the living daylights out of your child it does indicate using gentle force is acceptable. Tell me though how you would get a child to stay in a time out if they point blank refused to go to the naughty corner or whatever one uses as an equivalent? At the end of the day it can get to the point where you will need to use force so are you then assaulting your child and should be charged with child abuse? I bet not.

Another question to show there is not a one size fits all solution. Would you ever reward a child before they did the task they were asked? if you answered no then you are showing ignorance of how some children operate. Having worked in disability services and spoken to parents of kids with disabilities I know that sometimes you will come across a child who needs to be rewarded before they will do the task. Say they really want to go to a theme park. You could offer them that if they clean their room. They simply will not clean their room unless you take them to the theme park first no matter how much they want to go. Others you would be crazy to reward them before the task is completed. There is no simple one size fits all solution.

 

[ebia]

the law acknowledges a difference. If you punch a person you would be charged with assault not grevious bodily harm like you would be if you repeatedly punched them till they were unconscious. We happily acknowledge different levels.

But both are violent. Smack an adult you disagree with to get your own way and see what happens.. [quote ]Society in general acknowledges a difference. The bible does say spare the rod spoil the child. The rod was something that was used by a shepard to forcibly guide sheep in the right direction. So while the verse is not saying beat the living daylights out of your child it does indicate using gentle force is acceptable. Tell me though how you would get a child to stay in a time out if they point blank refused to go to the naughty corner or whatever one uses as an equivalent? [/quote] So violence is okay if your imagination runs out of alternatives?

There is no simple one size fits all solution.

Strawman - no-one claims there is.

 

[TheDag]

But both are violent. Smack an adult you disagree with to get your own way and see what happens..

I have already addressed this and since nobody including you responded I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

So violence is okay if your imagination runs out of alternatives? Strawman - no-one claims there is.

yet you won't answer my question and neither will anyone else on your side of the debate.
yet you insist that everyone is the same and the same solutions apply to all and are happy to rule out an option despite biblical evidence saying it is ok.
who claimed that smacking is used when you run out of alternatives? or is it ok for you to make up false claims but have a go at me for apparently making false claims. I don't believe I have made false claims but can understand how you arrived at the conclusion you did.

 

[ebia]

yet you insist that everyone is the same and the same solutions apply to all

No I don't. I rule out one option. Actually, we all rule out several options including, say, torture.

That leaves a whole gamut of alternative strategies that can be selected and applied as appropriate for the child.

 

[Serendipity..]

Simplistic thinking like yours that assumes that is the only method people use is also flawed thinking. Hi pot I'm kettle! If you had asked me a few weeks ago when did I last smack my child I would have responded with I have no idea as it was that long ago. If you are naïve enough to think I have not disciplined my son when he has done the wrong thing in the meantime then perhaps we should not continue this discussion. My son did get a smack the other week for the first time in years. it wasn't done in anger either and most certainly did not hurt him. When I get frustrated and angry I actually walk out of the room and if he follows I have had enough time to say I just need some alone time right now please go back to the other room and then I continue to calm down. Most importantly I model desired behaviour such as when I lectured him about not taking care of things and losing them only to later discover it was me who put his school jacket in the boot of the car not him leaving it in the playground I would then take the jacket to him and tell him where I found it and apologise for blaming him.

Ahh don't mistake me for someone who cares, that will save a lot of typing. I have up caring long ago when I realised people do not want to change..they like to talk!

 

[TheDag]

No I don't. I rule out one option. Actually, we all rule out several options including, say, torture.

That leaves a whole gamut of alternative strategies that can be selected and applied as appropriate for the child.

yet you still have not answered my question. how would you deal with the situation? of course it is possible that experts are wrong but the understanding is at the moment that there is a certain age where punishment must be immeadiate otherwise the child will not connect it to the wrong act. I am working on the assumption that is true until there is proof otherwise. Much like we accept science as being correct until proven otherwise.

 

[TheDag]

Ahh don't mistake me for someone who cares, that will save a lot of typing. I have up caring long ago when I realised people do not want to change..they like to talk!

guess you will go back and delete the five or so posts in this thread you made then. The fact that you made the posts shows the opposite of this statement. For the record my views are very different now that they were ten years ago which are also different to my views twenty years ago. So I am happy to change but I won't unless I am convinced.

 

[elephunky]

There is a huge difference between smacking children and beating children...

 

[ebia]

yet you still have not answered my question. how would you deal with the situation?

Because "no one size fits all" its useless to give an answer to an abstract question.

of course it is possible that experts are wrong but the understanding is at the moment that there is a certain age where punishment must be immeadiate otherwise the child will not connect it to the wrong act.
That's generrally true, but not every instance of a wrong act needs to be punished. Not that punishment is hugely effective in creating right thinking behavior.

 

[TheDag]

Because "no one size fits all" its useless to give an answer to an abstract question.

not abstract at all. it is real life situation that happens. in any case you can still answer with alternatives. Something nobody has ever managed to do but instead they just want to avoid the question and tell others they are wrong.

 

[Serendipity..]

guess you will go back and delete the five or so posts in this thread you made then. The fact that you made the posts shows the opposite of this statement. For the record my views are very different now that they were ten years ago which are also different to my views twenty years ago. So I am happy to change but I won't unless I am convinced.

if I see a cause I might bring it to someone attention as I care about that but soon as things turn into debates I usually loose all interest and don't care about trying to convince people to think like me for pages on end. It usually ends up a fruitless excecise.

 

[ebia]

not abstract at all. it is real life situation that happens. in any case you can still answer with alternatives. Something nobody has ever managed to do but instead they just want to avoid the question and tell others they are wrong.

It's a hypothetical without knowing the individual child - something you, quite correctly, insisted has to be factored in. Beyond that I can't remember what the scenario actually was.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

But both are violent. Smack an adult you disagree with to get your own way and see what happens..

Try locking an adult in their room, ban them from seeing their friends or take away their iPhone and "see what happens"

As TheDag says, adults and children are different, and we treat them differently.

 

[ebia]

Try locking an adult in their room, ban them from seeing their friends or take away their iPhone and "see what happens"

We do - it's called prison.

Not that such punishment is ideal by a long way. Just a massive step up from violence.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

We do - it's called prison.

Not at the discretion of individual parents we don't.

 

[ebia]

Not at the discretion of individual parents we don't.

Because dealing with adult misbehaviour is the role of the state; dealing with child misbehavior is the role of the parent. We aren't discussing who has the authority, but the extent of appropriate means and in that there are partial parallels.

 

[Mikaeri]

This is going way off topic, we are supposed to be discussing smacking of children..lets get a little realism here.

1***Smacking/spanking is NOT child abuse

2***No child has been injured or killed by a correcting their child with a controlled smack/smacks

3***Our liberal anti family attitudes to do with discipline, has had a detrimental effect on the family and kids generally..(The only losers with this experiment are the kids)

4***If Doctors and society are so concerned about stopping child abuse, look at the perpetrators that punch, kick and beat their kids, as well as the abortion laws and providers..

That's my 2 cents worth, that some on this thread won't like..but it's the truth nevetherless.

 

[elephunky]

Everyone has become so over sensitive and politically correct when it comes to kids that there is no proper way to discipline your children effectively to ensure they grow up to be decent and respectful adults. Have you seen kids today? They are completely feral with this overwhelming sense of entitlement and power. They are increasingly horrible to each other as well.

 

[ebia]

..but it's the truth nevetherless.

Because you say so?