Do Your Best, and Jesus Makes Up For the Rest

[OrthodoxyUSA]

There is only one true God. There is only one way to the Father. There is only one gospel. We are to worship God alone. I could go on...

It's a play on the word "alone".
There is no alone in Christianity.
Faith alone etc et al...
We are saved together or not at all.

Forgive me...

 

[Tree of Life]

What are you trying to get at? 'Faith only' means faith by itself, faith separated from works.

Jame says we are justified by works, not faith by itself. One would have to study hard for it to mean something other than what James said.

When James says "faith alone" he is referring to a false profession of faith. He's not referring to true faith. True faith always evidences itself in works. This is James' point.

 

[EmSw]

When James says "faith alone" he is referring to a false profession of faith. He's not referring to true faith. True faith always evidences itself in works. This is James' point.

Shame on James for not saying what he meant.

Do you believe in faith with works? If not, then your faith is a false profession of faith. This is from your own lips.

 

[Tree of Life]

Shame on James for not saying what he meant.

James said exactly what he meant. Shame on you for misinterpreting and misrepresenting his words.

Do you believe in faith with works? If not, then your faith is a false profession of faith. This is from your own lips.

I believe, along with James, that genuine faith always produces works of obedience. Otherwise it is not faith at all but mere words.

 

[EmSw]

James said exactly what he meant. Shame on you for misinterpreting and misrepresenting his words.

I believe, along with James, that genuine faith always produces works of obedience. Otherwise it is not faith at all but mere words.

So you do believe it is faith plus works, or, it is not faith at all, but mere words. Why didn't you say so in the first place? Now you are agreeing with James.

 

[Hammster]

Well, well, I guess it takes a Theological Degree from 7 seminaries, fluency in Greek and Hebrew, and a high I.Q to understand what 'faith only' means.

Or, just read the verse in context. That clears everything up.

 

[EmSw]

Or, just read the verse in context. That clears everything up.

Or, believe James that a man is justified by works and not faith alone.

 

[Hammster]

Or, believe James that a man is justified by works and not faith alone.

That would be true if the verse stood alone. Fortunately, we have context to show that's not what was meant. But I've noticed that for some, context can be tossed aside if it gets in the way of their presuppositions.

 

[EmSw]

That would be true if the verse stood alone. Fortunately, we have context to show that's not what was meant. But I've noticed that for some, context can be tossed aside if it gets in the way of their presuppositions.

Okay, you want context, I'll give you context.

James 2
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hammser, you have faith and I have works. Show me your faith without works. Can you do that? I will show you my faith by my works.

Uh oh, James is calling someone a foolish man. I wonder who that might be. Oh, it's those who believe in faith without works.

Do you not see that Abraham was justified by works, and that it was faith working together with his works? And by his works, his faith was made perfect.

Now do you see that a man is justified by works, and not faith only?

Do you see James gave us another example with Rahab? Even the harlot Rahab was justified by works.

Then comes the final nail in the 'faith only' coffin. Just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Now tell me Hammster, what can a dead faith do? What can it accomplish? Do you think your dead faith can save you?

Is this enough context for you, Hammster?

 

[AarontheStudent]

Paul wrote that, so it doesn't count.

Hmm.. your tongue-in-cheek quip has me wondering if there would even be a Christian religion without Paul.

 

[Hammster]

Uh oh, James is calling someone a foolish man. I wonder who that might be. Oh, it's those who believe in faith without works.

No, it's those who say they have faith, but have no works.

 

[Hammster]

Hmm.. your tongue-in-cheek quip has me wondering if there would even be a Christian religion without Paul.

Sort of a non-starter since God worked mightily through Paul.

 

[EmSw]

No, it's those who say they have faith, but have no works.

You're not going to comment on the context?

 

[EmSw]

No, it's those who say they have faith, but have no works.

So, is it faith without works, or, faith with works?

 

[Hammster]

You're not going to comment on the context?

I just did.

 

[Hammster]

So, is it faith without works, or, faith with works?

It is that works will show that you have faith. We are saved by faith alone, but faith that saves is never alone.

 

[Robert76]

Do Your Best, and Jesus Makes Up For the Rest

Does the above sentence accurately describe how a person is made right with God, i.e., justified. Does our standing before God work in this way?

Even our good works are as filthy rags to the Lord. So to put into perspective, doing our "best" is like giving the most quantity of filthy rags we can to God. Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) states " For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."... that is to be 'justified'. Philippians 2:12-13 goes on to say, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." So, as God is working in us through His Holy Spirit, we are to "work" out our own salvation by responding and being sensitive to His making us into the likeness of Christ. I've heard it said that when are saved, we immediately receive all of God and so the question no longer remains, "When will I fully have Jesus in my life?" but rather, "When will I fully give myself to Him, so that He can use me?"

 

[Tree of Life]

So you do believe it is faith plus works, or, it is not faith at all, but mere words. Why didn't you say so in the first place? Now you are agreeing with James.

I would not use the verbiage "faith plus works" because that's very confusing. Elsewhere Scripture does say "faith alone" and "faith apart from works". So to use this expression would cause needless confusion. I would instead say that faith that does not produce works is a dead, false faith. And true faith always produces works.

 

[AarontheStudent]

Faith that required works wouldn't make grace a gift, instead it would be an oath we're bound by. Comparable to the law fulfilled by Jesus' sacrifice.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Do Your Best, and Jesus Makes Up For the Rest

Does the above sentence accurately describe how a person is made right with God, i.e., justified. Does our standing before God work in this way?

yes

Grace= unmerited favor, essentially something that covers what you weren't able to do. Because someone even when saved isn't perfect there are certain things they may not do, or may mess up in so grace covers that.


Also there's a reason why I have a "grace based" scripture as my footnote. Grace covers those who try their best to avoid sin and are living right for God with a faith in him. There's a reason there's a verse in the bible that essentially says by Faith we have access to his grace. There's a reason the bible says they that are good obtain favor. IF you trip or mess up somewhere as long as you were trying as a saved individual God will cover that area, and as you grow you will be able to sort of move into that area that's covered.

It's favor no one deserves of course but God gives anyway.