Do you trust God to honour his covenant?

[black.hawk]

Genesis 9

11 Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.

15 and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.


Now, God promising Noah that he would never again destroy human life by flood doesn't mean that he won't be able to find other ways of killing people:-

(1) Such as destroying the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah by using fire and brimstone from heaven (Genesis 19:24, 25, 28, 29).

(2) Such as killing the Egyptian firstborn by using the tenth and final plague in Exodus 12:29, 30.

(3) Such as by using one group of people to kill other people.

(4) Such as the Coming Judgement by Fire - Or Judgement of the flesh - whereby God will use "fire from heaven" to destroy the followers of Satan in Revelation 20:9.


So God clearly demonstrated that he could well use alternative methods to circumvent any promises he made with his Major and Minor prophets (and with Modern Christians who are bound by the various covenants he established throughout the Bible) - Since, it is all a case of Semantics so that God is not moral bound to keep any promises which he never made in the first place - As the specific terms and conditions of any covenant will be defined by its "small print" - So although God has promised to never again destroy human life by flood it doesn't stop Him using other methods to kill people.

So God clearly had the ostensible purpose of reassuring Noah (and his sons) that he would never again destroy human life by flood, but he never really intended to stop killing people in the long term - By using other methods to accomplish the same task.

Discuss.

 

[nChrist]

God doesn't lie and keeps all of His promises.

 

[JIMINZ]

Genesis 9

11 Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.

15 and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.


Now, God promising Noah that he would never again destroy human life by flood doesn't mean that he won't be able to find other ways of killing people:-

(1) Such as destroying the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah by using fire and brimstone from heaven (Genesis 19:24, 25, 28, 29).

(2) Such as killing the Egyptian firstborn by using the tenth and final plague in Exodus 12:29, 30.

(3) Such as by using one group of people to kill other people.

(4) Such as the Coming Judgement by Fire - Or Judgement of the flesh - whereby God will use "fire from heaven" to destroy the followers of Satan in Revelation 20:9.


So God has clearly demonstrated that he could well use various methods to circumvent any promises he has made with his Major and Minor prophets (and with Christians who are bound by the various covenants he established throughout the Bible) - Since, it is all a case of Semantics so that God is not moral bound to keep any promises which he never made in the first place - As the specific terms and conditions of any covenant will be defined by its "small print" - So although God has promised to never again destroy human life by flood it doesn't stop Him using other methods to kill people.

So God clearly had the ostensible purpose of reassuring Noah (and his sons) that he would never again destroy human life by flood, but he never really intended to stop killing people in the long term - By using other methods to accomplish the same task.

Discuss.

.

It would appear as though you are misunderstanding and misapplying what God said, why would you even think God would not uphold His Covenant?....Because people have died?

Noah didn't need any reassurance, if God saved his family once, why wouldn't he do it again.
The promise is to us.

Have you never seen a rainbow?
Whenever you do see a rainbow, do you remember the promise, or just chalk it up to Natural Phenomenon, Physics?

Here are two places where Peter says, this is how the world will end.

2Pet. 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pet. 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

They are the only thing which can be applied to the Covenant,(Promise) God made to Noah.

 

[black.hawk]

God doesn't lie and keeps all of His promises.

But only the promises he has pledged - He never said that he would stop killing people when he made his covenant with Noah.

 

[nChrist]

But only the promises he has pledged - He never said that he would stop killing people when he made his covenant with Noah.

What God never said wouldn't be a promise. Now we're back to my original statement, "God doesn't lie and keeps all of His promises."

 

[Symph]

I can't figure out what there is to discuss.... you just stated the truth. God said he'd never flood the whole earth again, and He won't. But he said something totally different about fire.... lol

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

God just said to Noah that he will not need to build another ark , because that one prolly got rekt while landing on mountains.

 

[JIMINZ]

But only the promises he has pledged - He never said that he would stop killing people when he made his covenant with Noah.

The easiest way to clear up misunderstanding, is to post the verses where God has gone contrary to His Promises, Pledges.

Then we will know for sure what it is your angry with.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

For God people who don't believe are dead alredy, but people who believe or who will believe in a while are alive , because God knows future , that's why he saved Lot before he punished Sodom and Gommorah , because he can't kill righteous people.

 

[Soyeong]

Genesis 9

11 Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.

15 and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.


Now, God promising Noah that he would never again destroy human life by flood doesn't mean that he won't be able to find other ways of killing people:-

(1) Such as destroying the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah by using fire and brimstone from heaven (Genesis 19:24, 25, 28, 29).

(2) Such as killing the Egyptian firstborn by using the tenth and final plague in Exodus 12:29, 30.

(3) Such as by using one group of people to kill other people.

(4) Such as the Coming Judgement by Fire - Or Judgement of the flesh - whereby God will use "fire from heaven" to destroy the followers of Satan in Revelation 20:9.


So God has clearly demonstrated that he could well use various methods to circumvent any promises he has made with his Major and Minor prophets (and with Christians who are bound by the various covenants he established throughout the Bible) - Since, it is all a case of Semantics so that God is not moral bound to keep any promises which he never made in the first place - As the specific terms and conditions of any covenant will be defined by its "small print" - So although God has promised to never again destroy human life by flood it doesn't stop Him using other methods to kill people.

So God clearly had the ostensible purpose of reassuring Noah (and his sons) that he would never again destroy human life by flood, but he never really intended to stop killing people in the long term - By using other methods to accomplish the same task.

Discuss.

God is a righteous judge and I do not think that He was telling Noah that He would stop being a righteous judge. I have never taken God's promise that He would never judge the world by flood as being anything more than saying that He would never judge the world by flood. It appears as though you are saying that because God did not hold Himself to what His statement didn't say, but you think was implied, that therefore it is questionable whether we should trust God to act according to His statement said.

 

[black.hawk]

The easiest way to clear up misunderstanding, is to post the verses where God has gone contrary to His Promises, Pledges.

Then we will know for sure what it is your angry with.

Now, just remember that God made his covenant with Noah in light of his foreknowledge about future events - Such as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, death of the Firstborn Egyptians, the genocide of enemy tribes in Canaan, and the Coming Judgement by Fire in Revelation 20:9.

To make such a promise in the context of such foreknowledge is almost devious or duplicitous I think.

 

[JIMINZ]

Now, just remember that God made his covenant with Noah in light of his foreknowledge about future events - Such as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, death of the Firstborn Egyptians, the genocide of enemy tribes in Canaan, and the Coming Judgement by Fire in Revelation 20:9.

To make such a promise in the context of such foreknowledge is almost devious or duplicitous I think.

.
The Covenant God made with Noah has not turned out to be untrue, or disingenuous on His part.
Has the world to the best of your knowledge, been destroyed up to this point other than the flood?
Was there ever a Covenant where God said nobody would die for their sins from this point on?
Do you personally believe the people of Sodom, and Gomorrah either knew of this Covenant God made with Noah, or believed it to be a license to sin because of it?

It just seem as though you believe yourself to be more Righteous than God in your questioning of Him and His actions.

 

[black.hawk]

.
The Covenant God made with Noah has not turned out to be untrue, or disingenuous on His part.

But I never claimed that this Covenant was untrue, or disingenuous - But Iron Age people such as Noah may have been misled to presume that God would never again kill people in large numbers - God told Noah that he would never again use Flood to destroy large numbers of people, but he never said that he wouldn't use other methods to achieve the same results.

Has the world to the best of your knowledge, been destroyed up to this point other than the flood?

But on the contrary, God has never destroyed the world as such, but he only destroyed Non-aquatic organisms during the Flood - As one cannot presume that fish, seaweed, or plankton etc. would also have had the same fate as plants and land animals.

Besides, the New Testament makes it clear that God intends to destroy "countless numbers of people who are deceived by the Devil" in Revelation 20:9 - And he will do this at the End Times without destroying other creatures, nor destroy the physical geography of this planet - This implies that God's Covenant with Noah was made with his foreknowledge about the future destruction of human life in Revelation 20:9 - Such a destruction would be necessary to destroy the present world ruled by Satan (1 John 5:19) in order to establish the new heaven and earth in Revelation 21.

Obviously, an illiterate Neolithic person such as Noah can be easily misled to presume that the Covenant would somehow preclude the future destruction of human life in Revelation 20:9 - Although, you could still argue that God had never intended to deliberately mislead Noah in regards to the Covenant - Fact is, God didn't need to mislead him since Noah misled himself by presuming that the world would never again be destroyed by using God's power.

Was there ever a Covenant where God said nobody would die for their sins from this point on?

Doesn't matter what God said, or didn't say; but more importantly, Noah was naive to presume that God would never again destroy people en masse as he subsequently did in Deuteronomy 20:16-17 and will destroy most people alive on the earth in the Coming Judgement by Fire (Revelation 20:9).

So it doesn't matter what God said, or didn't say to Noah; but here, we are only concerned about the psychological impact of His Covenant on Noah (and his sons) who presumably thought that God would never again destroy large numbers of people as he did during the Flood.

It just seem as though you believe yourself to be more Righteous than God in your questioning of Him and His actions.

False.

No one can be more Righteous than God who created people such as Noah.

For I and My Father are One (John 10:30).

As Jesus Christ is God himself in the flesh (John 14:7).

 

[JIMINZ]

But I never claimed that this Covenant was untrue, or disingenuous - But Iron Age people such as Noah may have been misled to presume that God would never again kill people in large numbers - God told Noah that he would never again use Flood to destroy large numbers of people, but he never said that he wouldn't use other methods to achieve the same results.


But on the contrary, God has never destroyed the world as such, but he only destroyed Non-aquatic organisms during the Flood - As one cannot presume that fish, seaweed, or plankton etc. would also have had the same fate as plants and land animals.

Besides, the New Testament makes it clear that God intends to destroy "countless numbers of people who are deceived by the Devil" in Revelation 20:9 - And he will do this at the End Times without destroying other creatures, nor destroy the physical geography of this planet - This implies that God's Covenant with Noah was made with his foreknowledge about the future destruction of human life in Revelation 20:9 - Such a destruction would be necessary to destroy the present world ruled by Satan (1 John 5:19) in order to establish the new heaven and earth in Revelation 21.

Obviously, an illiterate Neolithic person such as Noah can be easily misled to presume that the Covenant would somehow preclude the future destruction of human life in Revelation 20:9 - Although, you could still argue that God had never intended to deliberately mislead Noah in regards to the Covenant - Fact is, God didn't need to mislead him since Noah misled himself by presuming that the world would never again be destroyed by using God's power.


Doesn't matter what God said, or didn't say; but more importantly, Noah was naive to presume that God would never again destroy people en masse as he subsequently did in Deuteronomy 20:16-17 and will destroy most people alive on the earth in the Coming Judgement by Fire (Revelation 20:9).

So it doesn't matter what God said, or didn't say to Noah; but here, we are only concerned about the psychological impact of His Covenant on Noah (and his sons) who presumably thought that God would never again destroy large numbers of people as he did during the Flood.


False.

No one can be more Righteous than God who created people such as Noah.

For I and My Father are One (John 10:30).

As Jesus Christ is God himself in the flesh (John 14:7).

.
You have said at least three times, Noah was either misled by God in what He said to Noah, or that Noah misled himself.

Either way, it appears as though it really does matter to you what God didn't say or divulge to Noah about future events in the history of the world, otherwise you would not be asking the questions.

By your saying God misled Noah, you are in essence saying God lied to Noah, by the act of omission.

Your theory does not hold water, and I can't understand what the point actually is, what purpose does it serve, how does this knowledge your seeking make you a better Christian?

 

[black.hawk]

.
You have said at least three times, Noah was either misled by God in what He said to Noah, or that Noah misled himself.

Either way, it appears as though it really does matter to you what God didn't say or divulge to Noah about future events in the history of the world, otherwise you would not be asking the questions.

By your saying God misled Noah, you are in essence saying God lied to Noah, by the act of omission.

Your theory does not hold water, and I can't understand what the point actually is, what purpose does it serve, how does this knowledge your seeking make you a better Christian?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that "God lied to Noah" - The act of omission by itself does not entail God telling lies to Noah - Genesis 9 does not say that God misled Noah - But God made his Covenant knowing that Noah would be easily misled by his own stupidity - Since, Iron Age people aren't expected to read the "small print", which could easily invalidate any contract if you don't take the necessary precautions - Whereas, Noah presumed that God would never again destroy people en masse by using ANY MEANS AVAILABLE God simply meant that he would never do it again using Flood - Whereas, ostensibly, it seemed that God had "renounced every act of genocide in the future" He only promised not to do it again by using Flood.

The ostensible wording here is important since Noah mistook it to imply that "God had renounced all future genocide", which was intended to reassure God's faithful servant that this would never happen again - But in reality, God already had foreknowledge about future events and genocide, which would be inflicted by using other methods - This did not in anyway contradict the wording of his Covenant with Noah (Genesis 9) - It's purpose was solely to provide his servant with 'assurances' about the future - That this would never happen again - without precluding subsequent genocide in the Bible - God achieved this end without contradicting his Covenant with Noah - A nominal gesture (or concession) by God, which did not serve to prevent future genocides in the Bible.

 

[JIMINZ]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that "God lied to Noah" - The act of omission by itself does not entail God telling lies to Noah - Genesis 9 does not say that God misled Noah - But God made his Covenant knowing that Noah would be easily misled by his own stupidity - Since, Iron Age people aren't expected to read the "small print", which could easily invalidate any contract if you don't take the necessary precautions - Whereas, Noah presumed that God would never again destroy people en masse by using ANY MEANS AVAILABLE God simply meant that he would never do it again using Flood - Whereas, ostensibly, it seemed that God had "renounced every act of genocide in the future" He only promised not to do it again by using Flood.

The ostensible wording here is important since Noah mistook it to imply that "God had renounced all future genocide", which was intended to reassure God's faithful servant that this would never happen again - But in reality, God already had foreknowledge about future events and genocide, which would be inflicted by using other methods - This did not in anyway contradict the wording of his Covenant with Noah (Genesis 9) - It's purpose was solely to provide his servant with 'assurances' about the future - That this would never happen again - without precluding subsequent genocide in the Bible - God achieved this end without contradicting his Covenant with Noah - A nominal gesture (or concession) by God, which did not serve to prevent future genocides in the Bible.

.
Personally, I don't care how many times you turn what God said inside out it is an irrelevant question to anything which has to do with Christianity.

I do not understand the importance of your proving what your assuming.

Now just provide a verse which says God deceived or misled Noah and I will then agree with you.....OK?