Do you think you deserve eternal torment in hell?

[Timothew]

Seems like some people can't post without deliberately misrepresenting the opposing view.

I know, and it is very annoying to me.

 

[Der Alte]

I know, and it is very annoying to me.

I am reminded of a reccuring schtick on Hee Haw. The guest of the week would go into "Doctor" Archie Campbell's office, move his arm around and say, "My arm hurts when I do this." Dr. Campbell whacks him/her with a rubber chicken and says, "Well don't do that then."

 

[cuja1]

Don't worry about those guys. Some people want to see others in eternal torment.

Thanks Timothew. I still don't know what to make out of everything but I do want to know the truth. This crap about calling my bluff gets on my nerves. I'm not trying to win any arguments

 

[SarahsKnight]

Thanks Timothew. I still don't know what to make out of everything but I do want to know the truth. This crap about calling my bluff gets on my nerves. I'm not trying to win any arguments

Well, I like to think that those who believe in eternal torment do not actively WANT to see it happen to people, but, yeah, you're right, cuja; that part about your bluff being called was totally uncalled for when you weren't even trying to make this a debate. Only in questioning can we ever hope to reach any kind of answer.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Well, I like to think that those who believe in eternal torment do not actively WANT to see it happen to people, but, yeah, you're right, cuja; that part about your bluff being called was totally uncalled for when you weren't even trying to make this a debate. Only in questioning can we ever hope to reach any kind of answer.

One cannot have a discussion when one takes a strong position and refuses to entertain other positions but instead continually rejects all but the positions that they already hold. From what I have seen here there is nothing but debate possible from the start.
Once you reject all logical alternatives to your point then you have nothing left but the point you had and discussion is meaningless.
In other words you are either preaching to the choir (those that agree) or you have everyone else in opposition to you (debating).

And BTW I agree that none of us want those in hell to suffer, and having to defend God in the case of Noah is a tough task when the point is brought up but reality is that throughout the Bible God did things in ways we just have to accept whether we like it or not.
I would like to think that those in hell suffer less than they deserve and that some of the torment they endure is to distract them from their own conscience over their past life's sins.

 

[Albion]

i'm actually looking for help understanding things, not in debating things. Would I be better off going to a different section?

You must disagree, but it seemed to me that you received a lot of sincere, nonjudgmental input on this thread. But of course we have to ask some questions in order to find out just what it is that you think and why. Otherwise, there'd just be "canned" answers that wouldn't be very personal. If one of two posts seemed unfair to you, I still think a serious attempt was made by a number of contributors here to answer you honestly.

 

[cuja1]

I agree with you Albion.

 

[cuja1]

For the record, my comment about the nature of hell was unnecessary and I can see why someone would think that it was up for debate. Sometimes people throw out information just to be throwing out information. That's all it was. If nothing else, I know there are those that disagree with that view point.

 

[Timothew]

I am reminded of a reccuring schtick on Hee Haw. The guest of the week would go into "Doctor" Archie Campbell's office, move his arm around and say, "My arm hurts when I do this." Dr. Campbell whacks him/her with a rubber chicken and says, "Well don't do that then."

Yeah, Hee-Haw was funny.
When people tell me death don't mean death, destruction don't mean destruction, perish don't mean perish, and "will be no more" means "will be tormented alive forever in hell", I'm reminded of Doc Campbell telling backwards fairy tales, like Rindercella.

 

[Der Alte]

Yeah, Hee-Haw was funny.
When people tell me death don't mean death, destruction don't mean destruction, perish don't mean perish, and "will be no more" means "will be tormented alive forever in hell", I'm reminded of Doc Campbell telling backwards fairy tales, like Rindercella.

Mugly other and two sad blisters. Why are you telling me this? I have never said anything like this. But I have shown people who quote a verse out-of-context that "cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb,""shall be cut off:,""Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken" and "the arms of the wicked shall be broken:" does not mean "destroyed."

 

[Hillsage]

My grounds are that there are many verses that say the wicked are destroyed.

I was wicked. Sex, grand theft, smuggling, smoking, cussing on and on and on. The night I accepted Jesus I was selling drugs, drawing unemployment and working one night a week in a bar for cash. Today I'd say that wicked man was destroyed. HMMM.

 

[Timothew]

Mugly other and two sad blisters. Why are you telling me this? I have never said anything like this. But I have shown people who quote a verse out-of-context that "cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb,""shall be cut off:,""Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken" and "the arms of the wicked shall be broken:" does not mean "destroyed."

Really and Truly?
When God says "But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed", "destroyed" doesn't mean "destroyed"? Oh, well, that's great news! I can transgress all I wait (as if I would ever want to transgress) and no problem. No destruction. No worries then.

I believe it is you who are taking verses out of context, changing their meaning willy nilly to fit your doctrine. No, you never said mugly other and two sad blisters, but you have tried desperately to make us believe that the wages of sin is not death but rather the wages of sin is whatever your tradition tells you it is.

 

[Der Alte]

Really and Truly?
When God says "But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed", "destroyed" doesn't mean "destroyed"? Oh, well, that's great news! I can transgress all I wait (as if I would ever want to transgress) and no problem. No destruction. No worries then.

I believe it is you who are taking verses out of context, changing their meaning willy nilly to fit your doctrine. No, you never said mugly other and two sad blisters, but you have tried desperately to make us believe that the wages of sin is not death but rather the wages of sin is whatever your tradition tells you it is.

Deliberate false acccusation and you knew it was false when you made it. I have called you on this before but you continue to post this false accusation. Please show me where I have ever tried to convince anyone that "the wages of sin is not death but rather the wages of sin is whatever your tradition tells you it is." Find that post and link it here or put a big red "L" on your forehead.

Here is my post #13 this thread what I have said many times re Rom 6;23.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: ​

All, 100% of mankind, have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, it is appointed unto, all 100% of, men once to die, but after this the judgment:

These verses do not say that the wages of sin is death, resurrection, then a second death. There is not one single verse which specifically states that anyone will die a second time.

And links to my posts in this thread were I repeat the above post and/or provide lexical and historical evidence for my arguments.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844497-9/#post66411281

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844497-8/#post66408306

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844497-6/#post66403462

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844497-6/#post66403459

http://www.christianforums.com/t7844497-3/#post66402666

http://www.christianforums.com/t7842921-3/#post66357400

http://www.christianforums.com/t7842921-6/#post66365275

 

[Timothew]

I stand corrected DerAlter.

So you now believe that the wages of sin is death just as the Bible says and the wages of sin is not to be in eternal torment in hell?

Do you now believe that those who will be destroyed in Gehenna actually WILL be destroyed in Gehenna rather than kept forever in torment?

I am very glad to hear that.
We agree completely. I'm sorry that I falsely accused you of not believing that the wicked will be completely destroyed. When we started this discussion five years ago, I believed that one day you would believe in Conditional Immortality in Christ, just as I do. I am happy to see that day has arrived.

 

[Der Alte]

I stand corrected DerAlter.

So you now believe that the wages of sin is death just as the Bible says and the wages of sin is not to be in eternal torment in hell?

Still trying to twist my words, I have never said and I do not say now that the wages of sin is eternal torment in hell.

Do you now believe that those who will be destroyed in Gehenna actually WILL be destroyed in Gehenna rather than kept forever in torment

I am very glad to hear that.

And yet another misrepresentation of what I said. Did you even read my post?

We agree completely. I'm sorry that I falsely accused you of not believing that the wicked will be completely destroyed. When we started this discussion five years ago, I believed that one day you would believe in Conditional Immortality in Christ, just as I do. I am happy to see that day has arrived.

Deliberately misrepresenting what I said. Do you have that big red "L" on your forehead yet?

 

[Albion]

Still trying to twist my words, I have never said and I do not say now that the wages of sin is eternal torment in hell.

Hmm. Same thing with me. I didn't take that position in my replies to him either but got the same kind of response. (There are so many "There is no hell" threads, however, that I don't recall offhand which one of them it was on).

 

[seeingeyes]

What's funny is when people who claim that they believe that they deserve hell get mad when you tell them to go to hell. (I should stop doing that. )

 

[Der Alte]

What's funny is when people who claim that they believe that they deserve hell get mad when you tell them to go to hell. (I should stop doing that. )

Humans don't have the power to send anyone to hell. Don't you remember that pet out-of-context.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

 

[seeingeyes]

Humans don't have the power to send anyone to hell. Don't you remember that pet out-of-context.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

They sure have the desire, though...

 

[Albion]

What's funny is when people who claim that they believe that they deserve hell get mad when you tell them to go to hell. (I should stop doing that. )

That's not fair at all, seeeingeyes. The truth is that several of us have answered questions that have been posted asking for information about some of the views held by traditional Christian churches. We've been rewarded for volunteering to answer by being denounced as advocates of them! You pat yourself on the back by saying that this makes me or us "mad" (because that's an emotion that's considered to be a failing), but it's not anger that's generated whenever anyone bites the hand that tried to feed. It's more like amazement and disappointment.