Do you think God only shows truth to people if they prove they are worthy ?

mikeforjesus

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2004
3,939
273
37
✟577,496.00
Faith
Christian
According to the church fathers works are necessary to do to know the truth but I’m not sure that is scriptural as many gentiles received the faith without such works. As it was said I was manifest to those who did not ask for Me. Rather God wanted to use him to witness to the truth to the gentiles for gospel to be spread and the gospel is for all. Jesus said everyone who seeks finds

As David the prophet says let the people’s know your salvation let your way be known on earth

But I agree that it is important to seek Christ to make sure you are born again and alive for bible says you will find Me if you seek for Me with your whole heart.
I believe God allowed differences for the sake of allowing different churches that appeal to people as long as such churches do not teach something you can know is not biblical and people can confirm the truth if they seek Him to know

Bede: “One does not attain faith by virtues, but rather one attains virtues by faith,” as the blessed Pope Gregory explains. Cornelius, he says, “whose almsdeeds before his baptism were praised by an angelic witness, did not come to faith by works but came to works by faith. For if he had not believed in the true God even before his baptism, to whom was he praying? Or how had almighty God heard this man, if it was not that he had been asking to be perfected in the good by this very God? Therefore he knew God as the creator of all things, but he did not know that the all-powerful Son had become flesh. He had faith, this man whose prayers and alms were able to please [God], and by his good deeds he earned the right to know good deeds he earned the right to know God perfectly and to believe in the mystery of the incarnation of his only begotten, so that he might approach the sacrament of baptism. Therefore, through faith he came to works, yet through works he was strengthened in faith.” COMMENTARY ON THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 10.1.

Chrysostom: Did you see what assurance came from prayers and almsgiving to this man, whose whole life was spent in the cloak and belt of the soldier? Let them hear this who have enlisted in the army and let them learn that military service presents no hindrance to virtue for the one who is willing to be sober. Let them learn that one can take great care of virtue, even though he wears the soldier’s cloak and belt, even though he has a wife, the care of children, the management of a household, and even though he has undertaken a public duty. Look at this admirable man, who wore the soldier’s cloak and belt, who commanded troops, for he was a centurion! Of what care did heaven deem him worthy because of his good will, his sobriety and his vigilance? And that you may know clearly that grace wings its way down to us from on high only after we have first done our fair share, hear the story itself. After Cornelius had taken the first step by his frequent and generous almsgiving, he was devoting himself earnestly to prayer. About the ninth hour, the Scripture says, an angel stood beside him as he prayed and said, “Cornelius, your prayers and your alms have gone up and been remembered in the sight of God.”Let us not simply pass these words by, but let us carefully consider the virtue of the man. Then let us learn how loving and kind the Master is and how he overlooks no one. But where he sees a soul that is sober, there he lavishes his grace upon him. Here is a soldier who has had benefit of no instruction, who was tangled up in the affairs of this life, who has each day a thousand things to distract and bother him. Yet he did not waste his life in banquets and drinking and gluttony but spent his time in prayer and almsgiving. He showed such eagerness on his own initiative, he attended so constantly to prayer, he was so generous in his almsgiving, that he showed himself deserving of such a vision. BAPTISMAL INSTRUCTIONS 7.28–29.

Basil the Great: Are there even now some who work from the first hour and others from the eleventh, and who are they?Perhaps [the answer to this] is most evident to anyone from the events recounted in the divinely inspired Scripture that while there are many, in the words of the apostle, who have learned the holy Scriptures from childhood, many still, such as Cornelius, although making good use of natural movements, are slow in coming to perfection of knowledge because of a lack of teachers. “For how,” he says, “do they believe, if they do not hear?” If, therefore, it happens that some, like Cornelius, are engaged in nothing evil but rather are but rather are desirous of perfection and genuinely demonstrate the good that they can and that comes to their knowledge, to these God gives the same blessings as he did to Cornelius by not holding them culpable for the period of idleness, since it was not their fault, as I said, and he is content with their desire that was previously made manifest through their eager actions and what has been more diligently set right in relation to perfection. THE SHORT RULES 2.224.
 
Last edited:

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
According to the church fathers works are necessary to do to know the truth but I’m not sure that is scriptural as many gentiles received the faith without such works. As it was said I was manifest to those who did not ask for Me. Rather God wanted to use him to witness to the truth to the gentiles for gospel to be spread and the gospel is for all. Jesus said everyone who seeks finds

As David the prophet says let the people’s know your salvation let your way be known on earth

But I agree that it is important to seek Christ to make sure you are born again and alive for bible says you will find Me if you seek for Me with your whole heart.
I believe God allowed differences for the sake of allowing different churches that appeal to people and people can confirm the truth if they seek Him to know

Bede: “One does not attain faith by virtues, but rather one attains virtues by faith,” as the blessed Pope Gregory explains. Cornelius, he says, “whose almsdeeds before his baptism were praised by an angelic witness, did not come to faith by works but came to works by faith. For if he had not believed in the true God even before his baptism, to whom was he praying? Or how had almighty God heard this man, if it was not that he had been asking to be perfected in the good by this very God? Therefore he knew God as the creator of all things, but he did not know that the all-powerful Son had become flesh. He had faith, this man whose prayers and alms were able to please [God], and by his good deeds he earned the right to know good deeds he earned the right to know God perfectly and to believe in the mystery of the incarnation of his only begotten, so that he might approach the sacrament of baptism. Therefore, through faith he came to works, yet through works he was strengthened in faith.” COMMENTARY ON THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 10.1.

Chrysostom: Did you see what assurance came from prayers and almsgiving to this man, whose whole life was spent in the cloak and belt of the soldier? Let them hear this who have enlisted in the army and let them learn that military service presents no hindrance to virtue for the one who is willing to be sober. Let them learn that one can take great care of virtue, even though he wears the soldier’s cloak and belt, even though he has a wife, the care of children, the management of a household, and even though he has undertaken a public duty. Look at this admirable man, who wore the soldier’s cloak and belt, who commanded troops, for he was a centurion! Of what care did heaven deem him worthy because of his good will, his sobriety and his vigilance? And that you may know clearly that grace wings its way down to us from on high only after we have first done our fair share, hear the story itself. After Cornelius had taken the first step by his frequent and generous almsgiving, he was devoting himself earnestly to prayer. About the ninth hour, the Scripture says, an angel stood beside him as he prayed and said, “Cornelius, your prayers and your alms have gone up and been remembered in the sight of God.”Let us not simply pass these words by, but let us carefully consider the virtue of the man. Then let us learn how loving and kind the Master is and how he overlooks no one. But where he sees a soul that is sober, there he lavishes his grace upon him. Here is a soldier who has had benefit of no instruction, who was tangled up in the affairs of this life, who has each day a thousand things to distract and bother him. Yet he did not waste his life in banquets and drinking and gluttony but spent his time in prayer and almsgiving. He showed such eagerness on his own initiative, he attended so constantly to prayer, he was so generous in his almsgiving, that he showed himself deserving of such a vision. BAPTISMAL INSTRUCTIONS 7.28–29.

Basil the Great: Are there even now some who work from the first hour and others from the eleventh, and who are they?Perhaps [the answer to this] is most evident to anyone from the events recounted in the divinely inspired Scripture that while there are many, in the words of the apostle, who have learned the holy Scriptures from childhood, many still, such as Cornelius, although making good use of natural movements, are slow in coming to perfection of knowledge because of a lack of teachers. “For how,” he says, “do they believe, if they do not hear?” If, therefore, it happens that some, like Cornelius, are engaged in nothing evil but rather are but rather are desirous of perfection and genuinely demonstrate the good that they can and that comes to their knowledge, to these God gives the same blessings as he did to Cornelius by not holding them culpable for the period of idleness, since it was not their fault, as I said, and he is content with their desire that was previously made manifest through their eager actions and what has been more diligently set right in relation to perfection. THE SHORT RULES 2.224.
God speaks to those who hear His voice ...

John 8:47
Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Proverb 2:1-5
My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: mikeforjesus
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,684
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
According to the church fathers works are necessary to do to know the truth

What do you man by ' people being worthy' and by ' works ' ?

No one, neither Saint, bishop, pope or anyone deserves God's favour, we are all sinners.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this is the gift of God.

Jesus consorted with the not respectable people of his day, with ' sinners '.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: mikeforjesus
Upvote 0

Jofes

Active Member
Feb 22, 2021
104
77
68
Burns Lake
✟35,186.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
This has always been a contested issue, but I believe it has a simple answer. Any job has it's description, and may include some aspects that do not agree with, yet you do them because that is the job. There is only one requirement to receive salvation. Not by works. By faith. Now you are saved, what next? The Bible is opened to you by the Holy Spirit and you start down a long and winding road. What pleases God you ask, and find out there is a job description. There is a perfect will of God, and you can walk that path. There is also a permissible will of God, and you can also follow that path. This is your freedom in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

mikeforjesus

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2004
3,939
273
37
✟577,496.00
Faith
Christian
What do you man by ' people being worthy' and by ' works ' ?

No one, neither Saint, bishop, pope or anyone deserves God's favour, we are all sinners.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this is the gift of God.

Jesus consorted with the not respectable people of his day, with ' sinners '.

yes no one is worthy I think you answered it Jesus came to people to teach and show them the truth everyone who was honest would know and acknowledge the truth he did not require one to be righteous first for him to be called for him to be able to see the truth
 
Upvote 0

tdidymas

Newbie
Aug 28, 2014
2,323
998
Houston, TX
✟163,285.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
According to the church fathers works are necessary to do to know the truth but I’m not sure that is scriptural as many gentiles received the faith without such works. As it was said I was manifest to those who did not ask for Me. Rather God wanted to use him to witness to the truth to the gentiles for gospel to be spread and the gospel is for all. Jesus said everyone who seeks finds ... (truncated)

James says "if anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask of God..." - this requires already having some faith and wisdom to believe that God will give it, and also humility to acknowledge that lack and ask for help. So, when people are given enough faith and wisdom to understand that God rewards those who carefully seek Him, then those people are already worthy.

On the other hand, Paul quoted God in the OT saying, "I made Myself known to those who did not seek Me..." So we can see here that some people obtain truth when they weren't even looking for it. Therefore we can say that those people were in a state of unworthiness. Eph. 2:5 says that God raised us up to life in Christ even when we were dead in sin (surprise!).

My point is that to think God deals with everyone at all times in exactly the same way is a fallacy. God deals with people a variety of ways, and at various times. Some receive truth about God and the nature of their relationship with Him without looking for it, but perhaps later they realize they must be diligent about seeking truth, because they see the wisdom which says "poor is he who deals with a slack hand, but the hand of the diligent makes rich."

There is no formula to follow, but only the leading of the Spirit who gives wisdom in its proper time.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: mikeforjesus
Upvote 0