Do you think church attendance is important?

[ICONO'CLAST]

Do you think church attendance is important?
Why or why not?
Is it important for some and unimportant for others or is it universally important?
Does the church need certain features to be important?
...

It is not optional, but mandatory.Heb13:7,17

 

[Rajni]

It is not optional, but mandatory.Heb13:7,17

That would work if I had a religious leader to whom to submit.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Why would church attendence be important for everyone?

Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it.
He is the head we are the body.
To despise the Church is to despise Christ Himself.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

That would work if I had a religious leader to whom to submit.

It is harder to find churches and leaders who are faithful but they are there

 

[Albion]

It is not optional, but mandatory.Heb13:7,17

Not exactly. The argument could be made that an affiliation and church attendance is mandatory per Scripture, but not that missing any Sunday without a compelling reason is itself a mortal sin.

 

[bhsmte]

Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it.
He is the head we are the body.
To despise the Church is to despise Christ Himself.

That is your opinion, which i do not share.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Not exactly. The argument could be made that an affiliation and church attendance is mandatory per Scripture, but not that missing any Sunday without a compelling reason is itself a mortal sin.

Yes...I was addressing what appears to be an exceedingly defective view of the necessity of body.life, the 30 one another passages directed to all saints everywhere.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

That is your opinion, which i do not share.

No...that is the word of God. If you do not " share it"....you I would need to repent and confess it as sin. Eph5:25-27

 

[Rajni]

It is harder to find churches and leaders who are faithful but they are there

Perhaps, but if I'm not qualified to follow God directly, how can I be qualified to determine which middle-men are qualified to be mediators between Him and I?

 

[Albion]

OOoh. We would not want you to subscribe to the notion that clergy are mediators between God and Man. To the extent that there are some churches that think they are, you can eliminate them from your list of 'possibles.'

 

[Rajni]

OOoh. We would not want you to subscribe to the notion that clergy are mediators between God and Man. To the extent that there are some churches that think they are, you can eliminate them from your list of 'possibles.'

True. "Mediators" might've been the wrong term on my part -- maybe middle-management or something would've been better.

To despise the Church is to despise Christ Himself.

I had a wave of déjà vu upon reading this and realized this discussion had taken place before in another thread back in 2017, so my perspective on that point would be pretty much the same here: "Despise" is a rather hyperbolic term, and is not what's being discussed here. This thread is about church attendance being mandatory or not.

 

[bhsmte]

No...that is the word of God. If you do not " share it"....you I would need to repent and confess it as sin. Eph5:25-27

You can repent all you like, if it works for you. Claiming to know what is best for me, is displaying arrogance.

 

[Albion]

True. "Mediators" might've been the wrong term on my part -- maybe middle-management or something would've been better.

Well, Christ does seem to have appointed people to be leaders of some sort, and the New Testament even names their job titles, so we can believe that some sort of administrator or facilitator is all right. What he or she is to do is more the question IMHO.

 

[Robban]

Well, Christ does seem to have appointed people to be leaders of some sort, and the New Testament even names their job titles, so we can believe that some sort of administrator or facilitator is all right. What he or she is to do is more the question IMHO.

Do not the Luther Church have a Church year,
where each week is a given text which is to be preached from?

In that way there will be a continuity, also the text should be
laid out in such a way that it applies to today.

 

[Albion]

That is true of the Lutherans, but also the Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, and even Methodists and other denominations that are not as historic.

 

[Robban]

That is true of the Lutherans, but also the Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, and even Methodists and other denominations that are not as historic.

I would have thought it to be sensible,
Accompanied with allsong,
And refreshments after for those who wish.

What is left is to apply it to everyday doings.

The other option would be someone in an expensive suit talking mostly about himself and what he has on his mind.

 

[bèlla]

I've experienced so much spiritual freedom and liberation that to return to a church setting would smother me. It would be like having to return to 6th grade after college.

I have been discerning this issue for several years. Primarily because I didn't want my decision to be based on a pastor's belief instead of God's will. Because I came to faith in a Jewish synagogue and found Christ in that setting. There was a period of internal division. I have attended church and did so at different venues over time. I've also participated, studied, and served. I enjoyed my experiences for the most part and the people were welcoming.

But I never felt part of the Church in the familial sense. I have genuine love and care for others. But what I'm referencing is the feeling you get when you're among your people. Warts and all. They're yours.

After a two-year absence I went to a Rosh HaShanah service. And as I stood and prayed with the others on one accord a dam broke open inside. I wept and shook as pangs of grief washed over me. I missed my people. I missed my Home. Being in their presence brought everything out.

I never knew if I was led to the synagogue to find my way back to Him and resolve all the questions I had. Or if there was more to it and that was only the first step. This isn't a simple solution of worshiping with Messianic Jews. But references the core of my spirit. I have meditated on 1 Corinthians 7:20 many times and finally reached a resolution. It's taken years to get to this place.

I share my story to illustrate our inability to predict what God will do. We have adopted scripts and wrongly assumed that every path will follow its course. God's avenues outnumber our ability to conceive alternatives. What can seem errant may be the forerunner for a Kingdom need we could not see.

My calling was confirmed by Evangelical, Catholic and Jewish spiritual directors. The Evangelicals believed I was called to teach and thought the path of seminary school and women's ministry was correct. The were right about the gift and wrong in its application. If I'd taken that course it would have been fruitless.

The Catholic director echoed their sentiments on teaching. Her lone suggestion is that I should be doing so. The following month I participated in a small group that ministered to unbelievers and we had amazing results. This was a divine assignment to help homeless men. I was ministering to someone for several months before it appeared. I believe our fruit was for this reason.

By the time I met with the Jewish director I knew I was called to the marketplace and shared my experiences. She celebrated the work to come and provided me a copy of The Gift of Rest by Joe Lieberman. It's about the Sabbath. And interestingly enough, rest is what I've lacked for years. I was reminded to seek the Lord in all I do and received a lot of encouragement. That's what I'd been missing. That's what I always give to others but I haven't had in return.

I left with a sense of peace and greater enthusiasm too. I'd come full circle. That was the synagogue I attended when I found Him. I think it's important to have sound counsel and spiritual companions. Though there may be seasons when this is easier than others. But most of all we must lean on the Lord and His Spirit. No one has all the answers. Irrespective of creeds and postulations. No one can say with absolute certainty what God has in store for you.

Personal preference and conviction can influence the advice we're given. I wasn't called to the poor or meant to lead a women's ministry or a bible study either. I was called to the fashion industry to positively impact those who have everything they need except the One True God. But they were right about school.

No one could have revealed that. Only the Holy Spirit could make it clear and He did and provided a blueprint for its accomplishment. Stay to close to Him.

 

[dzheremi]

The scriptures are clear that there is but one mediator between God and man -- our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5) -- but this is written in the context of exhortations that we pray for all men (see the rest of the introduction to the chapter ), and so we see priests and other clergy as servants of the mysteries and intercessors for the people, as it was in Israel when the priests would serve in the temple. This was much clearer in the old days in my particular Church (the Coptic/Egyptian Orthodox Church), as priests apparently used to wear on their garments 12 stones representing the peoples of Israel, and so would approach the altar in that manner 'carrying' the people and their prayers with them in prayer. I'm told this tradition still exists in some remote corners (maybe monasteries; can't remember where I read about it at the moment or I'd link it; please have mercy on me, I'm recovering from a week-long cold, so my brain is still somewhat foggy), though I've never personally seen it. Our prayers still testify to this, however, as there is a lot of "we" and "us" coming from the mouth of the priest (indicating clearly that he is with us, not above us in a spiritual sense, even as we kiss his hand because through him we receive our holy Lord's blood and body), and the only first person things are those that apply to the priest directly in his praying the liturgy (i.e., the silent prayers for the right handling of communion by the people, when he washes his hands and prays to be absolved should any receive when they shouldn't, because he can guard the chalice but only God can truly know the hearts of men), and when proclaims himself to be the chief of sinners in the public confession and absolution.

This is an Orthodox view, anyway. Other churches could have other views. I have been told that the RCC has a higher view of its clergy, making them sort of 'masters' of the mysteries rather than servants, but I never experienced that myself when I was RC (in fact, they seemed rather loose with the rules, if you know what I mean), and it seems that this might be one of those things that is hyped up in RC-EO debates that technically don't even involve me (gotta love being non-Chalcedonian sometimes...it's like okay guys...wake me up when you get to something pre-451). Still, it's something I'd look into before deciding to join any church, just to make sure you're not becoming involved with an organization that has an ecclesiological outlook that is not acceptable. I would not consider any church which views its clergy as mediators to have maintained the important distinction between that and intercessors, which calls into question their theology as well.

 

[Robban]

Front led congregations do not constitute what this verse describes.
Front led churches act to dissuade fellowship between the saints, demanding their eyes and ears to the theatre performance at the front.
In many church meetings there is absolutely minimal communion between members sitting next to each other, unless they are already friends.

Virtually impossible when everything is orchestrated from the front.

Not in scripture.
Ministry came from all the mature membership, not the man at the front.


You mention 1Cor. Well here's what it actually says about the assembling of the brethren, and it is nothing like church today.

You will notice this is a collective body ministry, with no evidence of a special priestly class at the front.

1Cor14v26What then is it, brothers? When you may come together, each has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
Each person can participate as led by the Holy Spirit, not by an order of service, or local tradition.

27If anyone speaks with a tongue, let it be by two or the most three, and in turn; and let one interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in the church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
The ministry is via the gifts of the Spirit, not some trained specially trained pastor.

29And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern. 30But if a revelation should be made to another sitting by, let the first be silent.
Courtesy is operated so that no one person dominates the meeting.

31For you are all able to prophesy one by one, so that all may learn, and all may be exhorted.
Again, all those gathered may function in the gifts, not just the top dog at the front.

32And the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For He is not the God of disorder, but of peace.

The church lost its way centuries ago and has little connection to the early church or scripture. That's why it is so weak, powerless and ineffectual in society.

There was hardly any fellowship among the Corinthians,

It was chaotic and nearest mayhem.

Which is why Paul had to take the measures he did.

There was or still is, a saying that living in a scandalous way
is living Corinthian.

 

[New Birth]

Front led congregations do not constitute what this verse describes.
Front led churches act to dissuade fellowship between the saints, demanding their eyes and ears to the theatre performance at the front.
In many church meetings there is absolutely minimal communion between members sitting next to each other, unless they are already friends.

Virtually impossible when everything is orchestrated from the front.

Not in scripture.
Ministry came from all the mature membership, not the man at the front.


You mention 1Cor. Well here's what it actually says about the assembling of the brethren, and it is nothing like church today.

You will notice this is a collective body ministry, with no evidence of a special priestly class at the front.

1Cor14v26What then is it, brothers? When you may come together, each has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
Each person can participate as led by the Holy Spirit, not by an order of service, or local tradition.

27If anyone speaks with a tongue, let it be by two or the most three, and in turn; and let one interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in the church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
The ministry is via the gifts of the Spirit, not some trained specially trained pastor.

29And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern. 30But if a revelation should be made to another sitting by, let the first be silent.
Courtesy is operated so that no one person dominates the meeting.

31For you are all able to prophesy one by one, so that all may learn, and all may be exhorted.
Again, all those gathered may function in the gifts, not just the top dog at the front.

32And the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For He is not the God of disorder, but of peace.

The church lost its way centuries ago and has little connection to the early church or scripture. That's why it is so weak, powerless and ineffectual in society.

Hate that you feel The Church has lost its way. Actually The Church still has the same power of God it had in the first century. You just may not be familiar with it. My earlier post was about the importance of going to "Church". Of course I know what 1 Corinthians says, the point is this occurs in a church setting not alone at one house. I would urge you to go seek the real church it is still alive, powerful, and thriving in the world today and has surely not lost its way.