“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)Everybody sins every day, Christians included of course.
M-Bob
I control my thoughts. Just not in a way that makes me oppressed.Your post #32?
Sin binds, truth and righteousness sets free.I control my thoughts. Just not in a way that makes me oppressed.
There is grace in accepting that some parts of you will only be changed with time. Attitude problems that are deeply ingrained in you.
And I'll leave this thread on that note. Not out of fear, but because I've said all I felt like I needed to say.
If you feel oppressed, by anything folks, by sweet words or words that seem wise, it is not from God. God does not oppress nor give yolks of bondage. You were slaves in Egypt, but not any longer.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)
I like MacArthur's one nature understanding, that all becomes new when born again.
I believe what the word teaches.
1. We are dead to sin. Romans 6:2
2. A Christian cannot sin. 1 John 3:9
3. We are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Romans 8:9
However, when we read all of Scripture, we see that it is "willful" sin that the apostles are talking about. Some denominations teach that all sin is willful. No, willful sins are sins unto death. But there are sins that are NOT unto death. We find in Leviticus 5:15 that trespasses are not "willful" sins, they are unwittingly committed. So there are imperfections of character or fruit of the Spirit that we commit, but are not knowingly committing a "sin." So what happens to these sins if we don't even know we commit them and cannot name them to repent? 1 John 1:7 talks of walking in the Spirit, but at the end sins are being cleansed. I see those as these trespasses that we don't even know we are committing, and Jesus, our Advocate, cleanses them.
Therefore, when we come to Christ and are baptized with His Spirit, all our past sins are taken out of us - willful sins and trespasses. We are completely cleansed. We don't even have a desire to commit them any more. Jesus frees us from sin. John 8:34-36. And the Spirit empowers us to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law. Some denominations erroneously teach that Jesus blood merely covers our sin, while they are still there. And only when we receive a new body are they taken away. Rubbish! They are confusing the blood of bulls and goats with the blood of Jesus. Jesus' blood is powerful and cleanses us completely - Now! Even the desire is gone.
Trespasses become less and less as we grow in the Holy Spirit, maturing the fruit. As we grow in love, our sensitivity to others grows.
Unknown sins, unwittingly committed.
Cursing probably,
but it should be confessed.
As far as lying, the new testament prohibits what we today call fraud, meaning lying to obtain something. That wouldn't be covered.
If the fish that got away is a lot bigger by the time you get home, I don't know.
I like MacArthur's one nature understanding, that all becomes new when born again.
When the Old Covenant (used to be in effect at one time in the past): There were certain conditions that needed to be met in order to cover even "sins of ignorance." They were not automatically just forgiven. In Leviticus 4, we learn that certain conditions in offering a sacrifice needed to be met (See Leviticus 4:3, Leviticus 4:14, Leviticus 4:23, Leviticus 4:28).
Sins of ignorance included guilt (Leviticus 5:17).
17 "And if a soul sins, and commits any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he knew it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with your valuation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and knew it not, and it shall be forgiven him." (Leviticus 5:17-18).
In other words, the sin of ignorance needed to brought to the person's attention whereby they needed to make atonement for his guilt in breaking the Law (once that Law was brought to his attention that he broke). It is no different today, the Holy Spirit (and not a priest or fellow Israelite) convicts us of our sin; For the Holy Spirit even convicts the world of their sin (See John 16:8). There is no automatic forgiveness of sin if someone sinned even if they were without Law.
"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" (Romans 2:12).
There are many today, who think certain sins are not sins. I have talked with people on the forum who think inappropriate content is not a grievous sin. They honestly and truly believe it is not a grievous sin unto death (but in reality it is a grievous sin that destroys their soul) whether they realize that fact or not (i.e. "sin of ignorance").
Today, many wrongfully think you need to commit lots of sin habitually in order to be condemned of that sin. This means that in order for them to be considered an adulterer, they have to be committing adultery all the time and not on occasion or even one time. However, we learn from the Law that a person who committed adultery once was still considered an adulterer according to the Old Law and both participants in that adultery were worthy of the punishment of death (Leviticus 20:10).
It only took one act of murder to be considered a murderer (See Numbers 35:16-18). There was no immediate forgiveness if the person was not aware that they were not committing murder. If they murdered in ignorance, it would need to be brought forth with guilt whereby they would want to make atonement for it with the sacrifice of an animal before the congregation. If they didn't care, obviously they would not care to make atonement for their sin.
Proverbs 6:32 says,
"But whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."
There is no rule of exception of automatic forgiveness mentioned anywhere in the Bible if a person were to commit this sin in ignorance (even if it was done one time). Sin always eventually would be brought forth to the attention to an individual, and if they felt guilty over it and wanted to get right with GOD, they needed to make atonement before the congregation in the OT. In the NT, we have the Spirit to convict us to repent (seek forgiveness of our sin) with the Lord Jesus Christ (as Him being our high priest). We are not forgiven automatically of sins of ignorance, but such sins will be brought to our attention whereby we need to confess them to Jesus in order to be forgiven again. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
Even murder in the NT is considered a loss of salvation. For 1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. This would mean that even a murderer who murders even once in ignorance is not forgiven because 1 John 3:15 says NO murderer has eternal life abiding in him. They need to repent (seek forgiveness with the Lord) over their murder and not repeat such a grievous sin again.
I believe the "sin not not unto death" in 1 John 5:16-17 is talking about "confessed sin" (Which lines up with 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:9) in the context of the same epistle. The "sin that leads to death" are those sins that a person is refusing to confess. This is similar to the gnostic belief that denied the existence of sin or thought sin was an illusion, whereby they would say, "we have no sin" (1 John 1:8) because sin doesn't exist for them. Today, Christian Scientists believe sin is an illusion, so 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them not to think that way. Today, we have OSAS Proponents who think that their future sins are paid for and as a result, they are in part denying the existence of sin because they think that when they do sin physically, their sins are forgiven on a spiritual level by Jesus. Meaning, when they sin, they are technically not sinning in the eyes of God because of their belief on Jesus. They are saying, "we have no sin" (1 John 1:8). But John says we need to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9).
Side Note:
The context of 1 John 5:16-17 does not mention anything about your version of sins done in ignorance. We have stick to the context of John's epistle to define our terms on what a "sin unto death" is and what a "sin not unto death" is. 1 John 1:9 is the "sin not unto death." 1 John 1:8 is the "sin unto death."
Holy Spirit doesn't let us get away with wilfull sin.
We will always be sinners however
Yes, we are not on the same page, and I do not agree with many of your thoughts you believe are scriptural and that mine are not. But, I too have based mine on scripture. For instance, your example of adultery as done in ignorance, adultery is "lawlessness," a "willful" sin 1 John 3:4. It is a sin unto death, and not a trespass. So is fornication. They are not cleansed by our Advocate and need to be repented of and repeated no more, before forgiveness can be made. God will not be mocked.
forgiveness is not the point. so what sins we have or don't have is meaningless and grace is indiscriminate; its goal is restored relationship with God, forgiveness is just a nessarily path to get there.Do you think Christians sin?
If so, what common unconfessed sins do you think Jesus forgives?
For example: Do you think lying, or cursing, or inappropriate content (lusting), hating, coveting are automatically covered by the blood of Jesus by having a belief alone on Him?
Sure, if we repent of them, and move on. Do you not know we are to repent of our sins? If we sin without concern on a regular basis/live in that sin, we got a problem, plain and simple.
forgiveness is not the point. so what sins we have or don't have is meaningless and grace is indiscriminate; its goal is restored relationship with God, forgiveness is just a nessarily path to get there.
Do you not believe Christ's blood is the all efficacious remedy for sin?
we need to be spotless to come before God and in order to do this we need forgiveness but the goal is not forgiveness it's the coming to God part. I don't think grace cares what sins stand in the way so long as we are inline with the goal.What?!
No. The Bible says, "For godly sorrow works repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world works death." (2 Corinthians 7:10).
Jesus says,"No, but unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3).
So in order to have repentance, you need to have a Godly sorrow (Which means you are going to want to seek forgiveness with the Lord).
Peter tells Simon to repent of his wickedness by way of a prayer towards God in the hope that he may be forgiven of his sin of trying to pay for the Spirit.
"Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).