Do you suppose..................................?

[Imagican]

I have been participating on 'Christian Forums' for many many YEARS now. Not only this one, but I was a member of 'two others' previous. When I realized that my efforts were wasted on the others, (most members were either Catholic or UR), I bid them farewell and have never looked back.

From the moment I first joined a 'forum', I was dumbfounded. It seemed that few, it ANY that were members actually had ANY 'true understanding' of what they 'spoke of'. They were simply 'repeating' what their 'churches' had taught them. And it is my FIRM belief that there 'are no churches' that are able to teach the TRUTH for none actually follow what we are offered in God's Word.

The 'churches' that exist today are 'man made organizations' that won't even admit that the Bible IS God's Word when compared to their 'doctrines'. In other words, they insist that their DOCTRINES are where the congregations FAITH is to be placed, not in the BIBLE.

Then I was confused with how DIFFICULT it is to discuss the Bible. How hard it is for some to actually understand what it offers. I was confused until recently.

During our present political campaigns, much was shared on 'facebook' and other places where people are capable of posting their thoughts and share those of others. What this brought to my attention is THIS:

Growing up, attending public schools, (and private when overseas), the administration often administered tests to the students to see where they stood so far as where they were expected to be. You know, grade equivalency tests.

From about the sixth grade until I finished High School, when we gathered for these 'tests', I was ALWAYS among the first five or so that FINISHED. You know, " the timer starts when we say go and you have fifteen minutes to finish. When the timer goes off, place your pencils on the desk and close the test booklet". I prided myself in finishing as fast as possible and NEVER took one of these type tests that I didn't finish among the top five or so students. And these tests were usually for the WHOLE grade at one time. Hundreds of students in the same room.

By being one of the first finished, (and there were times I was THE FIRST finished), I noticed that there were MANY that NEVER finished ANY tests withing the tie allotted. A small portion. But there were always those that had not finished when the timer went off.

When we were given the results of these tests, from about the eighth grade, my scores in comprehension and vocabulary were ALWAYS 13 or above. What 13 signified was first year of college. That was in the eighth grade.

Now, some would attempt to say I'm 'bragging'. I AM NOT. I did not 'create' my intellect. I was BORN with it. If you want to blame someone, blame my parents.

But here is what I have noticed LATELY more than any other time since I've been on the internet involved with social media and this includes 'Christian Forums':

There are MANY MANY MANY out there that do NOT possess the abilities that I DO. Not bragging. Just pointing out the FACT. The FACT that my reading and comprehension levels are significantly ABOVE average. My vocabulary is WAY above average. And note, I use the term AVERAGE. For that is where MOST, when tested, fall into place: AVERAGE.

So here's the POINT: do you suppose that it's possible that God made sure that there were those that could READ His Word, comprehend it and then explain it to others? That it's possible that many, maybe even MOST can READ the Bible and understand SOME of it, but have a very difficult time understanding ALL of it? And that God has made SURE that there are always SOME that can read ALL of it and UNDERSTAND it so that there are ENOUGH that understand to explain what they understand to those that are NOT capable of reading God's word and understanding it themselves?

I know the Catholic Church has taught this from their inception. They don't teach what I'm offering, but something close. They teach that God chooses SOME to be 'clergy' and these are given SPECIAL gifts in order to BE what they are chosen to BE.

I don't know about this. I know God has chosen particular individuals or groups to accomplish certain 'things'. These are those that I consider to be 'His elect'. Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, the apostles. These were chosen directly BY GOD to accomplish particular tasks. They were ELECTED by God, some apparently before they were even BORN.

I do NOT claim to be any such person. I have simply pointed out that my ability to read and comprehend what I read to be well above average. And I have read MORE hours in the Bible than everything else I've read combined, (I have read THOUSANDS of books in my life other than the Bible).

So without arguing, the odds of someone coming to the SAME understanding that I have by READING the Bible, someone with HALF the ability, are astronomically AGAINST such possibility.

So that means that MOST that discuss the Bible with me aren't REALLY discussing the Bible as they have come to understand it through READING it, but in TRUTH are simply repeating what someone ELSE has told them it means. And that 'someone' is most likely their "CHURCH".

But how about taking this into consideration: I won't charge you ONE CENT for telling you what I have learned. And I haven't learned it from someONE. What I offer is offered directly from the Bible in words that you can understand.

No 'mysteries'. No 'voodoo'. No 'magic'. Just what we are offered in the Bible. But it might not be possible of 'all of us to understand it' as it is offered. For some don't have the mental CAPACITY to actually UNDERSTAND what it offers.

I KNOW this: you take someone with 'average' abilities and have them read the Bible. Then you take someone with TWICE their ability. The person with average ability in comprehension may not learn ANYTHING of significance after reading the Bible one time. Yet the person with TWICE the ability may comprehend MORE by reading it ONCE than the person with HALF the ability reading it the REST OF THEIR ENTIRE LIFE. For comprehension isn't something you LEARN. It's what you are BORN with.

So this is my question: Do you suppose that it's possible for someone with little ability to comprehend what they are reading to actually 'understand the Bible'? Even with guidance through the Holy Spirit, do you HONESTLY believe that you can UNDERSTAND what you have little capacity to grasp when it comes to READING?

It is my opinion that if this is what you believe, then you are simply FOOLING yourself. And what's worse, then offering what you have fooled yourself into believing in an attempt to FOOL others into the same misunderstanding as yourself.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[GoodFruit]

I know that God has blessed me greatly with my understanding of His words as I have grown in faith and His teachings. I remember not understanding most of what I understand now only 8 months or so ago when I first came to the faith. Perhaps knowledge/blessings that God has given us will increase or decrease with how we use what He has already given us. It would certainly line up with scriptures if this is true.

Mark 4:24-25 KJV
- And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
- For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

I think God gives us enough knowledge when we are born to make it to a point where we can decide to do what is right or wrong. Whatever path we take, more of that path will be laid before us and harder will it be to get back on the other path.

So perhaps your current state is an accumulation of blessings or curses from God according to how you have lived regarding good and bad behavior.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I have been participating on 'Christian Forums' for many many YEARS now. Not only this one, but I was a member of 'two others' previous. When I realized that my efforts were wasted on the others, (most members were either Catholic or UR), I bid them farewell and have never looked back.

From the moment I first joined a 'forum', I was dumbfounded. It seemed that few, it ANY that were members actually had ANY 'true understanding' of what they 'spoke of'. They were simply 'repeating' what their 'churches' had taught them. And it is my FIRM belief that there 'are no churches' that are able to teach the TRUTH for none actually follow what we are offered in God's Word.

The 'churches' that exist today are 'man made organizations' that won't even admit that the Bible IS God's Word when compared to their 'doctrines'. In other words, they insist that their DOCTRINES are where the congregations FAITH is to be placed, not in the BIBLE.

Then I was confused with how DIFFICULT it is to discuss the Bible. How hard it is for some to actually understand what it offers. I was confused until recently.

During our present political campaigns, much was shared on 'facebook' and other places where people are capable of posting their thoughts and share those of others. What this brought to my attention is THIS:

Growing up, attending public schools, (and private when overseas), the administration often administered tests to the students to see where they stood so far as where they were expected to be. You know, grade equivalency tests.

From about the sixth grade until I finished High School, when we gathered for these 'tests', I was ALWAYS among the first five or so that FINISHED. You know, " the timer starts when we say go and you have fifteen minutes to finish. When the timer goes off, place your pencils on the desk and close the test booklet". I prided myself in finishing as fast as possible and NEVER took one of these type tests that I didn't finish among the top five or so students. And these tests were usually for the WHOLE grade at one time. Hundreds of students in the same room.

By being one of the first finished, (and there were times I was THE FIRST finished), I noticed that there were MANY that NEVER finished ANY tests withing the tie allotted. A small portion. But there were always those that had not finished when the timer went off.

When we were given the results of these tests, from about the eighth grade, my scores in comprehension and vocabulary were ALWAYS 13 or above. What 13 signified was first year of college. That was in the eighth grade.

Now, some would attempt to say I'm 'bragging'. I AM NOT. I did not 'create' my intellect. I was BORN with it. If you want to blame someone, blame my parents.

But here is what I have noticed LATELY more than any other time since I've been on the internet involved with social media and this includes 'Christian Forums':

There are MANY MANY MANY out there that do NOT possess the abilities that I DO. Not bragging. Just pointing out the FACT. The FACT that my reading and comprehension levels are significantly ABOVE average. My vocabulary is WAY above average. And note, I use the term AVERAGE. For that is where MOST, when tested, fall into place: AVERAGE.

So here's the POINT: do you suppose that it's possible that God made sure that there were those that could READ His Word, comprehend it and then explain it to others? That it's possible that many, maybe even MOST can READ the Bible and understand SOME of it, but have a very difficult time understanding ALL of it? And that God has made SURE that there are always SOME that can read ALL of it and UNDERSTAND it so that there are ENOUGH that understand to explain what they understand to those that are NOT capable of reading God's word and understanding it themselves?

I know the Catholic Church has taught this from their inception. They don't teach what I'm offering, but something close. They teach that God chooses SOME to be 'clergy' and these are given SPECIAL gifts in order to BE what they are chosen to BE.

I don't know about this. I know God has chosen particular individuals or groups to accomplish certain 'things'. These are those that I consider to be 'His elect'. Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, the apostles. These were chosen directly BY GOD to accomplish particular tasks. They were ELECTED by God, some apparently before they were even BORN.

I do NOT claim to be any such person. I have simply pointed out that my ability to read and comprehend what I read to be well above average. And I have read MORE hours in the Bible than everything else I've read combined, (I have read THOUSANDS of books in my life other than the Bible).

So without arguing, the odds of someone coming to the SAME understanding that I have by READING the Bible, someone with HALF the ability, are astronomically AGAINST such possibility.

So that means that MOST that discuss the Bible with me aren't REALLY discussing the Bible as they have come to understand it through READING it, but in TRUTH are simply repeating what someone ELSE has told them it means. And that 'someone' is most likely their "CHURCH".

But how about taking this into consideration: I won't charge you ONE CENT for telling you what I have learned. And I haven't learned it from someONE. What I offer is offered directly from the Bible in words that you can understand.

No 'mysteries'. No 'voodoo'. No 'magic'. Just what we are offered in the Bible. But it might not be possible of 'all of us to understand it' as it is offered. For some don't have the mental CAPACITY to actually UNDERSTAND what it offers.

I KNOW this: you take someone with 'average' abilities and have them read the Bible. Then you take someone with TWICE their ability. The person with average ability in comprehension may not learn ANYTHING of significance after reading the Bible one time. Yet the person with TWICE the ability may comprehend MORE by reading it ONCE than the person with HALF the ability reading it the REST OF THEIR ENTIRE LIFE. For comprehension isn't something you LEARN. It's what you are BORN with.

So this is my question: Do you suppose that it's possible for someone with little ability to comprehend what they are reading to actually 'understand the Bible'? Even with guidance through the Holy Spirit, do you HONESTLY believe that you can UNDERSTAND what you have little capacity to grasp when it comes to READING?

It is my opinion that if this is what you believe, then you are simply FOOLING yourself. And what's worse, then offering what you have fooled yourself into believing in an attempt to FOOL others into the same misunderstanding as yourself.

Blessings,

MEC

I have been participating on 'Christian Forums' for many many YEARS now. Not only this one, but I was a member of 'two others' previous. When I realized that my efforts were wasted on the others, (most members were either Catholic or UR), I bid them farewell and have never looked back.

From the moment I first joined a 'forum', I was dumbfounded. It seemed that few, it ANY that were members actually had ANY 'true understanding' of what they 'spoke of'. They were simply 'repeating' what their 'churches' had taught them. And it is my FIRM belief that there 'are no churches' that are able to teach the TRUTH for none actually follow what we are offered in God's Word.

The 'churches' that exist today are 'man made organizations' that won't even admit that the Bible IS God's Word when compared to their 'doctrines'. In other words, they insist that their DOCTRINES are where the congregations FAITH is to be placed, not in the BIBLE.

Then I was confused with how DIFFICULT it is to discuss the Bible. How hard it is for some to actually understand what it offers. I was confused until recently.

During our present political campaigns, much was shared on 'facebook' and other places where people are capable of posting their thoughts and share those of others. What this brought to my attention is THIS:

Growing up, attending public schools, (and private when overseas), the administration often administered tests to the students to see where they stood so far as where they were expected to be. You know, grade equivalency tests.

From about the sixth grade until I finished High School, when we gathered for these 'tests', I was ALWAYS among the first five or so that FINISHED. You know, " the timer starts when we say go and you have fifteen minutes to finish. When the timer goes off, place your pencils on the desk and close the test booklet". I prided myself in finishing as fast as possible and NEVER took one of these type tests that I didn't finish among the top five or so students. And these tests were usually for the WHOLE grade at one time. Hundreds of students in the same room.

By being one of the first finished, (and there were times I was THE FIRST finished), I noticed that there were MANY that NEVER finished ANY tests withing the tie allotted. A small portion. But there were always those that had not finished when the timer went off.

When we were given the results of these tests, from about the eighth grade, my scores in comprehension and vocabulary were ALWAYS 13 or above. What 13 signified was first year of college. That was in the eighth grade.

Now, some would attempt to say I'm 'bragging'. I AM NOT. I did not 'create' my intellect. I was BORN with it. If you want to blame someone, blame my parents.

But here is what I have noticed LATELY more than any other time since I've been on the internet involved with social media and this includes 'Christian Forums':

There are MANY MANY MANY out there that do NOT possess the abilities that I DO. Not bragging. Just pointing out the FACT. The FACT that my reading and comprehension levels are significantly ABOVE average. My vocabulary is WAY above average. And note, I use the term AVERAGE. For that is where MOST, when tested, fall into place: AVERAGE.

So here's the POINT: do you suppose that it's possible that God made sure that there were those that could READ His Word, comprehend it and then explain it to others? That it's possible that many, maybe even MOST can READ the Bible and understand SOME of it, but have a very difficult time understanding ALL of it? And that God has made SURE that there are always SOME that can read ALL of it and UNDERSTAND it so that there are ENOUGH that understand to explain what they understand to those that are NOT capable of reading God's word and understanding it themselves?

I know the Catholic Church has taught this from their inception. They don't teach what I'm offering, but something close. They teach that God chooses SOME to be 'clergy' and these are given SPECIAL gifts in order to BE what they are chosen to BE.

I don't know about this. I know God has chosen particular individuals or groups to accomplish certain 'things'. These are those that I consider to be 'His elect'. Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, the apostles. These were chosen directly BY GOD to accomplish particular tasks. They were ELECTED by God, some apparently before they were even BORN.

I do NOT claim to be any such person. I have simply pointed out that my ability to read and comprehend what I read to be well above average. And I have read MORE hours in the Bible than everything else I've read combined, (I have read THOUSANDS of books in my life other than the Bible).

So without arguing, the odds of someone coming to the SAME understanding that I have by READING the Bible, someone with HALF the ability, are astronomically AGAINST such possibility.

So that means that MOST that discuss the Bible with me aren't REALLY discussing the Bible as they have come to understand it through READING it, but in TRUTH are simply repeating what someone ELSE has told them it means. And that 'someone' is most likely their "CHURCH".

But how about taking this into consideration: I won't charge you ONE CENT for telling you what I have learned. And I haven't learned it from someONE. What I offer is offered directly from the Bible in words that you can understand.

No 'mysteries'. No 'voodoo'. No 'magic'. Just what we are offered in the Bible. But it might not be possible of 'all of us to understand it' as it is offered. For some don't have the mental CAPACITY to actually UNDERSTAND what it offers.

I KNOW this: you take someone with 'average' abilities and have them read the Bible. Then you take someone with TWICE their ability. The person with average ability in comprehension may not learn ANYTHING of significance after reading the Bible one time. Yet the person with TWICE the ability may comprehend MORE by reading it ONCE than the person with HALF the ability reading it the REST OF THEIR ENTIRE LIFE. For comprehension isn't something you LEARN. It's what you are BORN with.

So this is my question: Do you suppose that it's possible for someone with little ability to comprehend what they are reading to actually 'understand the Bible'? Even with guidance through the Holy Spirit, do you HONESTLY believe that you can UNDERSTAND what you have little capacity to grasp when it comes to READING?

It is my opinion that if this is what you believe, then you are simply FOOLING yourself. And what's worse, then offering what you have fooled yourself into believing in an attempt to FOOL others into the same misunderstanding as yourself.

Blessings,

MEC

Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you think he is wise by the standards of this age he should become a fool so that he may become wise
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in Gods sight. As it is written: He catches the wise in their craftiness.
And again
The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1cor3:18-20

 

[~Anastasia~]

Do you read in the original languages? Or do you read translations? If you are so able, perhaps that is a blessing for you that you should study Biblical Greek and Hebrew, and it could be of great benefit to you to read and study in these languages.

However, do not forget that Someone once said that it was the Father's great pleasure to hide truths from the wise and learned and reveal them to babes. And that pride goeth before a fall.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you are in the usa, this means nothing.

When we were given the results of these tests, from about the eighth grade, my scores in comprehension and vocabulary were ALWAYS 13 or above. What 13 signified was first year of college. That was in the eighth grade.
.

==============================
No.

So here's the POINT: do you suppose that it's possible that God made sure that there were those that could READ His Word, comprehend it and then explain it to others?

=============================
It is rather the scholars who give us the most trouble and division and opposition to finding YHWH'S KINGDOM .... (cont. after this quote)

Do you read in the original languages? Or do you read translations? If you are so able, perhaps that is a blessing for you that you should study Biblical Greek and Hebrew, and it could be of great benefit to you to read and study in these languages

=============================
(cont. from before last quote)
and this is why, as Y'SHUA Himself said, as YHWH does:

However, do not forget that Someone once said that it was the Father's great pleasure to hide truths from the wise and learned and reveal them to babes.

 

[~Anastasia~]

And yet, it is helpful to know the distinction between σάρξ and σῶμα - both of which are translated "flesh" sometimes. Or the distinction many are familiar with, between ἀγάπη and φιλέω, without which certain distinctions are lost. Or in English we can lose the close connection between healing and salvation, both represented by the single word σῴζω.

It is true that English speakers today must study to learn such things, but it is also true that a child on the street in Christ's day would have understood what we miss simply by having the passages read to him.

 

[stuart lawrence]

[QUOTE="yeshuaslavejeff, post:
It is rather the scholars who give us the most trouble and division and opposition to finding YHWH'S KINGDOM ...:[/QUOTE]
How true your words are.
The greatest power and most rapid growth seen in Christianity was before the emergence of the scholar and theologian, not after

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is so simple and true.
A child today knowing only english,
but to whom Y'SHUA does as always for those who are His disciples : "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
(like little children as Y'SHUA says to whom the Father Himself reveals Salvation and everything concerning Salvation)
also learns this as the Father is Pleased to make it known by revelation in spirit.
Also, we see it as happening TODAY, not sometime by and by, nor after we die sometime, but TODAY as YHWH is Willing.
This and many other things, although really only a few and simple,
are "hidden" BY YHWH from the educated. This is too much for some of them to bear, as many of Y'SHUA'S OWN disciples said to Him and then left Him.
(and note He did not go after them, nor ask them to come back).

i.e. the meaning of the message is missed by trying to understand with human wisdom or knowledge, and is not passed on by human wisdom or knowledge,
but as Y'SHUA says by sheer grace of the Father as HE PLEASES.

I think the OP and several other threads/ posts also bring this observation out.

It is true that English speakers today must study to learn such things, but it is also true that a child on the street in Christ's day would have understood what we miss by having the passages read to him.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

I have been participating on 'Christian Forums' for many many YEARS now. Not only this one, but I was a member of 'two others' previous. When I realized that my efforts were wasted on the others, (most members were either Catholic or UR), I bid them farewell and have never looked back.

From the moment I first joined a 'forum', I was dumbfounded. It seemed that few, it ANY that were members actually had ANY 'true understanding' of what they 'spoke of'. They were simply 'repeating' what their 'churches' had taught them. And it is my FIRM belief that there 'are no churches' that are able to teach the TRUTH for none actually follow what we are offered in God's Word.

The 'churches' that exist today are 'man made organizations' that won't even admit that the Bible IS God's Word when compared to their 'doctrines'. In other words, they insist that their DOCTRINES are where the congregations FAITH is to be placed, not in the BIBLE.

Then I was confused with how DIFFICULT it is to discuss the Bible. How hard it is for some to actually understand what it offers. I was confused until recently.

During our present political campaigns, much was shared on 'facebook' and other places where people are capable of posting their thoughts and share those of others. What this brought to my attention is THIS:

Growing up, attending public schools, (and private when overseas), the administration often administered tests to the students to see where they stood so far as where they were expected to be. You know, grade equivalency tests.

From about the sixth grade until I finished High School, when we gathered for these 'tests', I was ALWAYS among the first five or so that FINISHED. You know, " the timer starts when we say go and you have fifteen minutes to finish. When the timer goes off, place your pencils on the desk and close the test booklet". I prided myself in finishing as fast as possible and NEVER took one of these type tests that I didn't finish among the top five or so students. And these tests were usually for the WHOLE grade at one time. Hundreds of students in the same room.

By being one of the first finished, (and there were times I was THE FIRST finished), I noticed that there were MANY that NEVER finished ANY tests withing the tie allotted. A small portion. But there were always those that had not finished when the timer went off.

When we were given the results of these tests, from about the eighth grade, my scores in comprehension and vocabulary were ALWAYS 13 or above. What 13 signified was first year of college. That was in the eighth grade.

Now, some would attempt to say I'm 'bragging'. I AM NOT. I did not 'create' my intellect. I was BORN with it. If you want to blame someone, blame my parents.

But here is what I have noticed LATELY more than any other time since I've been on the internet involved with social media and this includes 'Christian Forums':

There are MANY MANY MANY out there that do NOT possess the abilities that I DO. Not bragging. Just pointing out the FACT. The FACT that my reading and comprehension levels are significantly ABOVE average. My vocabulary is WAY above average. And note, I use the term AVERAGE. For that is where MOST, when tested, fall into place: AVERAGE.

So here's the POINT: do you suppose that it's possible that God made sure that there were those that could READ His Word, comprehend it and then explain it to others? That it's possible that many, maybe even MOST can READ the Bible and understand SOME of it, but have a very difficult time understanding ALL of it? And that God has made SURE that there are always SOME that can read ALL of it and UNDERSTAND it so that there are ENOUGH that understand to explain what they understand to those that are NOT capable of reading God's word and understanding it themselves?

I know the Catholic Church has taught this from their inception. They don't teach what I'm offering, but something close. They teach that God chooses SOME to be 'clergy' and these are given SPECIAL gifts in order to BE what they are chosen to BE.

I don't know about this. I know God has chosen particular individuals or groups to accomplish certain 'things'. These are those that I consider to be 'His elect'. Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, the apostles. These were chosen directly BY GOD to accomplish particular tasks. They were ELECTED by God, some apparently before they were even BORN.

I do NOT claim to be any such person. I have simply pointed out that my ability to read and comprehend what I read to be well above average. And I have read MORE hours in the Bible than everything else I've read combined, (I have read THOUSANDS of books in my life other than the Bible).

So without arguing, the odds of someone coming to the SAME understanding that I have by READING the Bible, someone with HALF the ability, are astronomically AGAINST such possibility.

So that means that MOST that discuss the Bible with me aren't REALLY discussing the Bible as they have come to understand it through READING it, but in TRUTH are simply repeating what someone ELSE has told them it means. And that 'someone' is most likely their "CHURCH".

But how about taking this into consideration: I won't charge you ONE CENT for telling you what I have learned. And I haven't learned it from someONE. What I offer is offered directly from the Bible in words that you can understand.

No 'mysteries'. No 'voodoo'. No 'magic'. Just what we are offered in the Bible. But it might not be possible of 'all of us to understand it' as it is offered. For some don't have the mental CAPACITY to actually UNDERSTAND what it offers.

I KNOW this: you take someone with 'average' abilities and have them read the Bible. Then you take someone with TWICE their ability. The person with average ability in comprehension may not learn ANYTHING of significance after reading the Bible one time. Yet the person with TWICE the ability may comprehend MORE by reading it ONCE than the person with HALF the ability reading it the REST OF THEIR ENTIRE LIFE. For comprehension isn't something you LEARN. It's what you are BORN with.

So this is my question: Do you suppose that it's possible for someone with little ability to comprehend what they are reading to actually 'understand the Bible'? Even with guidance through the Holy Spirit, do you HONESTLY believe that you can UNDERSTAND what you have little capacity to grasp when it comes to READING?

It is my opinion that if this is what you believe, then you are simply FOOLING yourself. And what's worse, then offering what you have fooled yourself into believing in an attempt to FOOL others into the same misunderstanding as yourself.

Blessings,

MEC

To the extent you have a point, it is obscured by strident anti-clericalism, abrasive anti-Catholicism, and the misuse of capitalization, which makes your posr difficult to read. Also, "not meaning to boast" comes across as suggesting a certain overconfidence.

If you had made this post out as one paragraph and focused specifically on how the reading of scripture does not automatically convey comprehension or edification, I would have probably agreed with you.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Well Paul, you are a pretty ASTUTE observer.
Congrats on actually 'understanding' what I posted even though you found it difficult to read as posted.

Often people confuse 'authority' with 'over confidence'. I would wager that many accused Christ and the apostles of the 'same charge'.

So far as the 'one paragraph'? When I typed the 'more than one paragraph', I was addressing a varied audience. Not all are able to comprehend without detailed explanation. Basically that was the message to begin with. While you and others may well be able to grasp a concept in the fewest words possible, not all are so gifted.

But in essence, from you response, it is clear to me that you already KNOW and AGREE with the basic concept I presented. While you would insist that it is the 'job' of the 'clergy', (God ONLY gifted those that are a part of the 'clergy'), you would agree that 'some' are gifted with the intellect to read and understand God's word above 'others'.

Blessings,

MEC

Now let us not jump to conclusions. I am not am arch-clericalist; I would not insist that comprehension is uniquely the realm of the ordained clergy, although it is the role of the bishop to ensure such comprehension is genuine.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Why is it that when I say something some people inevitably respond with a torrent of irrelevant anti-Catholicism? Is it lost on them that the idea of an episcopate, which is Scriptural (see the Pastoral Epistles of St. Paul) is not proprietary to Rome? That Orthodox, Assyrians, Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists among others also know them?

 

[1213]

...For comprehension isn't something you LEARN. It's what you are BORN with.....

I just want to say for those who think they have difficulties to understand, there is this promise:

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

I think it worked for me and I believe it will work for everyone who asks. Bible matters are no secret to disciples of Jesus and it doesn’t depend on how smart you were when you were born, God can help anyone over difficult matters.

 

[LouisBooth]

Do you suppose that it's possible for someone with little ability to comprehend what they are reading to actually 'understand the Bible'? Even with guidance through the Holy Spirit, do you HONESTLY believe that you can UNDERSTAND what you have little capacity to grasp when it comes to READING?

This is why you need discipleship, not just conversion.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Why is it that when I say something some people inevitably respond with a torrent of irrelevant anti-Catholicism? Is it lost on them that the idea of an episcopate, which is Scriptural (see the Pastoral Epistles of St. Paul) is not proprietary to Rome? That Orthodox, Assyrians, Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists among others also know them?

I think they must have assumptions of what they think you must mean, and have their own lenses through which they view history or related topics.

I am constantly, CONSTANTLY, it seems, defending some aspect of Catholicism, while at the same time being obliged to point out that I'm NOT Catholic and indeed, have some very deep disagreements with them.

But we shouldn't assume because we disagree, even vehemently, on some topics, that EVERYTHING with the group in question is wrong. Catholics of course teach that Christ was born in the flesh of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, and resurrected from the dead (along with MANY other truths). We certainly agree there, if we are Christians at all.

But there are enough reactionary folks, that someone always does. That they took the time to do so, I think they were often hurt in some way, so try to excuse it for that sake.

At least it makes a good enough reason for regarding everyone charitably, which we of course try to do.

 

[Uber Genius]

had ANY 'true understanding' of what they 'spoke of'.

Okay...perhaps you would share the specifics of your methodology for discovering "true understanding," and differentiating it from "false understanding."

Spare no detail.

An outline of the steps would be fine. Not looking for verbosity.

Then I was confused with how DIFFICULT it is to discuss the Bible. How hard it is for some to actually understand what it offers. I was confused until recently.

I think you may be on the wrong track if you think the source of difficulty has to do with the how many standard deviations to the right of the norm one is in their intellectual capabilities.

When we were given the results of these tests, from about the eighth grade, my scores in comprehension and vocabulary were ALWAYS 13 or above. What 13 signified was first year of college. That was in the eighth grade.

Got it.

Where did you attend college, grad school(s)?

Why are these fields of study pertinent to exegesis, hermeneutics, biblical theology, and systematics?

do NOT claim to be any such person. I have simply pointed out that my ability to read and comprehend what I read to be well above average. And I have read MORE hours in the Bible than everything else I've read combined,

I think I would need to see evidence of a correlation between reading and comprehending and the type of knowledge you are claiming.

I find that only close reads (deep study) produces any meaningful knowledge. The "Read my Bible every day," crowd give arguments:

With scriptures that are taken out of context,

Filled with exegetical fallacies,

Lack of understanding of progressive revelation,

Have No interaction with typology,

Are unable to recognize figures of speech (label, let alone decrypt meaning),

Are ignorant of culture, Hebrew and Greek grammar, genre,

And are you sure you want to die of the "look how much I read my Bible," hill?

 

[Uber Genius]

Often people confuse 'authority' with 'over confidence'. I would wager that many accused Christ and the apostles of the 'same charge

Christ yes, Paul,of madness, but are you claiming the same "authority," as Paul or Christ?

And it hardly seems in evidence that any confusion exists. Despite the appeals to authority qua your intellect. Which is a logical fallacy BTW.

 

[~Anastasia~]

But herein lies the PROBLEM with your 'view'.

Satan deceived Eve with the TRUTH, or parts of the truth. The problem was in her being led by not receiving the WHOLE truth.

Do you supposes that if Satan can disguise himself as an angel, or God or Christ, that he can simply alter a small portion of the truth in order to have men following and worshiping HIM?

The TRUTH is, I could call a 'hairbrush' Jesus. So the NAME has little significance in the big picture.

So if I allowed Satan to convince me that he is Christ, what significance does the NAME have?

This is where the TRUTH means EVERYTHING. Not just bits or pieces or 'partial truth'. But THE truth. In order to defend ourselves it is utterly crucial that we KNOW the TRUTH. In order to serve the ONE true God we MUST know the TRUTH of HOW we are to serve. For if we leave the 'door opened', the world belonging to Satan will devour us.

So far as MY beliefs, you are most certainly 'Catholic'. You can use whatever name you choose, but the practices of what you follow are almost identical to those that you separated from. While you SAY you are separate, about the ONLY separation was over differences so minute as to be inconsequential.

You defend the Catholic Church because you are the offspring of the Catholic Church. You CLAIM differently, but the evidence speaks for itself. Your CLAIM is that you WERE a 'part' of the Catholic Church 'until' your 'group' decided to separate itself.

Martin Luther. Regardless of what the Catholic Church STATED, was a Catholic priest. Excommunicating him FROM the 'church' didn't alter WHO he was in TRUTH: a Catholic priest even AFTER being excommunicated.

You could throw me out of America but that wouldn't alter the FACT that I'm an American.

So your attempts to convince yourself that you are NOT a Catholic doesn't really alter the truth.

Do you believe that the bread and wine LITERALLY become the flesh and blood of Christ by someone simply uttering 'magic words'? Do you believe that Mary is the queen of Heaven? Do you believe that it is the 'church' that has the authority to either grant or deny salvation? Do you believe that God is three persons in ONE God?

What many seem to be incapable of understanding is that the TRUTH IS THIS: almost every major denomination is nothing other than an 'offshoot' of the Catholic Church. Very few denominations 'started over with Christ'. They simply introduced Him into their previous 'belief system'. And that is EXACTLY what the Catholic Church DID. They considered Christ to be the culmination of their previous belief systems. Thereby 'adding' Christ to their previous religious practices. And that is WHY most of the rituals of the Catholic Church have NO Biblical instruction. Because these practices are NOT Biblical. They are practices that existed in their previous 'religions' that they simply 'added Christ to'.

Peter, an apostle, had problems with this very concept. He THOUGHT that Christ was just an extension of all that had previously followed. He didn't realize that upon the introduction of Christ, a NEW covenant was then installed that eliminated the previous customs and belief structure. He continued to try and teach that one NEEDED to be a JEW in order to receive Christ. That one needed to continue in such practices as circumcision and other 'Jewish' practices that were no longer VALID once the NEW covenant had been established.

The Catholic Church did the SAME thing only WORSE. They were incapable of understanding the "FREEDOM" delivered by Christ and instead formed an organization that immediately set out to establish their OWN 'laws' even more confining than anything God ever delivered to the Hebrews/Jews. And were even more aggressive and brutal in the enforcement of THEIR laws.

The very FACT that Christ's message was one of forgiveness and the Catholic Churches message was 'follow us or DIE' shows clearly that they were not teaching the message of Christ nor offering the example.

Blessings,

MEC

I think you just proved my point.

If I were you, I'd study a bit more before I set out to teach.

But if you and your intellect decide to proceed, no real worries. With your attitude, you aren't likely to affect much change anyway.

God be with you.

 

[Uber Genius]

The more inane one's beliefs, my observation has suggested the LESS intellect they possess

This is starting to get entertaining.

This is a circular argument combined with an ad hominem. Despite your towering intellect, I will define what I mean, just in case you are having an "off" day.

Presupposition: if I don't agree with a view I label it "Inane."

Premise: the more inane a view the less intellect the arguer possesses.

Argument therefore if I find a view is inane I can reject it due to the lack of intellect of its defender.

So properly stated you can see the circularity of presupposing what you are trying to prove.

More damning is that you then ad a second fallacy, known as an ad hominem.

I am intuiting that your response to my "which colleges did you attend," and "How will your study inform your understanding of truth," are questions that will be dodged.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Do you suppose it's possible that others could have been gifted with intellect as well, and yet not have arrived at the same conclusions you have?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Are you sure you don't really mean: "With your MESSAGE you are unlikely to affect much change"?

I don't know you any more than you know me. But I have been STUDYING God's Word for about twenty years now. Not from some 'church angle', but simply studying God's Word. Without any preconceived notions or 'church' telling me what to believe and showing me how to find it.

I believe that whatever denomination you have chosen to place your faith in, I could TEACH YOU that is is not 'Biblical' but based on the teachings of MEN instead. Would you listen or heed what I could 'teach you'? Unlikely for what I would teach you wouldn't necessarily be what you WANT to learn. Certainly wouldn't be anything that would tickle your ears.

For what I would offer is that you abandon the teachings of men and turn instead to the Word of God. Not 'as defined by men', but as it is offered.

For before anyone can actually LEARN what 'love is', they have to be ABLE to learn. And it takes proper teaching to learn the TRUTH.

So to 'share love' one must 'understand love'. For Satan offers a semblance of love. He teaches us 'self love' and how to "GET" what we WANT.

But the TRUTH is God desires that we learn what we SHOULD want and that ain't gold or silver or pretty girls. What we SHOULD want is what benefits 'others' instead of merely focusing on OURSELVES.

Blessings,

MEC

Studying is to be commended.

But how one goes about it is important too. As I mentioned in my first post to you, have you considered, or are you able, to study in the original languages? Not just looking up words in Strong's, but actually learning the nuances of all the words used, and which ones might be chosen in place of others that could have been used, and so on? Much - VERY much - is lost in translation. Especially when the Scriptures have sometimes been translated from Greek into Latin and then into English - generally BY churches who, as I see you realize, have their own points of view.

But seriously, your comment that Orthodox is the same as Catholic, and even came out of it, demonstrates a very great lack of knowledge about both theology and (depending on who you ask, admittedly, Church history). There are deep fundamental differences, which in some cases Protestantism has identified and rejected to move closer to Orthodoxy than Catholicism is, and in some cases not.

If you have such ability, I would in fact encourage you to put it to good use. It can be a blessing. But your view is much narrower right now than you realize.

God be with you. And I do mean that.