Do you support vaccine mandates (Poll)

[muichimotsu]

1. The first thing is recognizing that the vaccine we currently have is not giving a robust enough immunity to be adequately protective, so a mandate is useless. We need to go back to things like social distancing, act like you don't have the vaccine even if you do have the vaccine to prevent the spread, not saying the vaccine can't help those who have gotten it, but it's not an end all be all.

Not sure anyone said it was a be all end all, but it could've done something if we didn't have so much bad information being spread out and people having the ill education to interpret it to their benefit

2. Second thing is, start working on second generation vaccines, polyvalent, and focusing on viral proteins that are not the spike protein that is more prone to mutation, focus on other viral surface proteins like the Nucleocapsid protein that is the most prevalent antibody amoung people who have had the illness and recovered, and is currently protecting them from getting reinfected. Natural immunity wins out over the vaccine in that situation. Use that information, find out what antibodies are protecting them that the vaccines don't give. Also make sure that any vaccine you make has MULTIPLE proteins that they immunize you against, don't put all your eggs in one basket the way that they did with the first generation vaccines focusing on the spike protein at the expense of any other possible targets. They had such bad tunnelvision on this obvious target protein that they focused on it and as a result, a variant slips around. If a virus has to mutate MULTIPLE proteins to get around a vaccine it's much less likely to do so. All previous vaccines provided immunity vs multiple proteins, this is the first set of vaccines that only protects against a single protein as far as I know.

But is it though? My one example seems anecdotal, but natural immunity hardly seems that effective if it dies out in a few months and someone can get infected again

They're on a time crunch, what do you expect them to do? They only have so much money and resources in general and the goal was getting it out there. Ideally we could get something more robust, but the problem is our society has advanced to a point that we can't just wait it out, people are at risk of being freaking evicted because of how job opportunities are still floundering to a degree, among other systemic issues that are causing rampant suffering

3. More focus on early treatment regimens, people have used antiviral drugs early in the disease to limit replication along with steroids to limit inflammation, get them on prophylactic antibiotics to help prevent secondary bacterial infections that can be fatal, and blood thinners to limit blood clots that can be fatal. Do more studies on that, get some solid treatment regimens going rather than just throwing people on a ventilator and letting them die. Again, don't put your eggs all in 1 basket focusing entirely on the vaccine. Get treatment protocols.

I think most people would agree antiviral could do something, I believe you're referring to recimdivir (sp?). Certainly more likely than anti parasite drugs or a recent trend where people are gargling antibacterials

4. We need to recognize that previously infected people do count towards herd immunity, they're not getting reinfected but the agenda right now is that only the vaccine provides protection which is a load of hogwash. Allow people who have been previously infected to be tested for antibody titers and T-cell titers. That can show them to be immune regardless of vaccination status

Again, need I point to the fact that the herd immunity doesn't work that way when they can still get infected, by your own logic?

Not getting reinfected by that strain is like playing Russian roulette and saying, "Oh boy, I didn't die that time, let's try it again and do double or nothing,". We shouldn't have to take this risk with something that could kill healthy people in their 20s because of a cytokine storm or even leave them crippled for life with lung scarring and the like

The vaccine provides more long term protection and would do better once we improve the formula, correct? Natural immunity is probably better in some respects, but that'd be like saying, "sure let's give everyone measles, they'll be okay," rather than inoculating us.

 

[Jamdoc]

Not sure anyone said it was a be all end all, but it could've done something if we didn't have so much bad information being spread out and people having the ill education to interpret it to their benefit



But is it though? My one example seems anecdotal, but natural immunity hardly seems that effective if it dies out in a few months and someone can get infected again

They're on a time crunch, what do you expect them to do? They only have so much money and resources in general and the goal was getting it out there. Ideally we could get something more robust, but the problem is our society has advanced to a point that we can't just wait it out, people are at risk of being freaking evicted because of how job opportunities are still floundering to a degree, among other systemic issues that are causing rampant suffering

That's why I said, 2nd gen vaccines. Learn from the past mistakes, come up with better vaccines.

I think most people would agree antiviral could do something, I believe you're referring to recimdivir (sp?). Certainly more likely than anti parasite drugs or a recent trend where people are gargling antibacterials

the antiparasytic drugs you're referring to have been showing to inhibit covid 19 replication.
Not saying get products made for animals and aquariums, but those drugs are legitimately prescribed by doctors and have decades of safe use data.
But, actually try to treat sick patients, not just throw them on a ventilator and let them die.

Again, need I point to the fact that the herd immunity doesn't work that way when they can still get infected, by your own logic?

Not getting reinfected by that strain is like playing Russian roulette and saying, "Oh boy, I didn't die that time, let's try it again and do double or nothing,". We shouldn't have to take this risk with something that could kill healthy people in their 20s because of a cytokine storm or even leave them crippled for life with lung scarring and the like

The vaccine provides more long term protection and would do better once we improve the formula, correct? Natural immunity is probably better in some respects, but that'd be like saying, "sure let's give everyone measles, they'll be okay," rather than inoculating us.

[/quote]
It's not about encouraging people to get ill over get vaccinated, don't be absurd.
It is taking advantage of the fact that those people who did have it and recovered, are also a part of the first line of defense.
People with natural immunity were 13x less likely to be infected with Delta vs the vaccinated.
why wouldn't they be part of the first line of defense?

 

[muichimotsu]

That's why I said, 2nd gen vaccines. Learn from the past mistakes, come up with better vaccines.

I doubt the virologists are just sitting on their hands

the antiparasytic drugs you're referring to have been showing to inhibit covid 19 replication.
Not saying get products made for animals and aquariums, but those drugs are legitimately prescribed by doctors and have decades of safe use data.
But, actually try to treat sick patients, not just throw them on a ventilator and let them die.

Problem is people are self medicating, that's the main issue here, even if there's some treatment regimen that somehow works against a virus when it's meant to deal with a parasite, most people aren't going to buy into that and I doubt the hospitals are going to do it without much more rigorous testing and data

You assume the resources are just going to keep up, they can't and aren't in many cases, especially in urban centers. People are dying from entirely unrelated and treatable issues because the covid patients, 90-95% unvaccinated are taking up all the beds. How could the vaccine preventing hospitalization ever be a bad thing?

It's not about encouraging people to get ill over get vaccinated, don't be absurd.
It is taking advantage of the fact that those people who did have it and recovered, are also a part of the first line of defense.
People with natural immunity were 13x less likely to be infected with Delta vs the vaccinated.
why wouldn't they be part of the first line of defense?

Are they though? They're dealing with long covid about 1/3 of the time, that's not recovery, that's being crippled for life potentially with lung scarring and heart problems

This assumes that everyone should just get infected apparently, which is reckless and stupid for anyone to suggest, like the Great Barrington Commission did not so subtly. I'd hope you're not supporting much of anything that tripe advocated

Because many of them would prefer to not get infected again, call me crazy

 

[Jamdoc]

I doubt the virologists are just sitting on their hands

You have far too much faith in man...

Problem is people are self medicating, that's the main issue here, even if there's some treatment regimen that somehow works against a virus when it's meant to deal with a parasite, most people aren't going to buy into that and I doubt the hospitals are going to do it without much more rigorous testing and data

Yeah the self medicating are a problem because the fomulations they use aren't meant for humans, and are often not even meant to be ingested at all. Like the horse dewormer.. that's a topical paste you're not supposed to eat it. The ivermectin is probably not what's harming them but all the other ingredients for the topical paste.

You assume the resources are just going to keep up, they can't and aren't in many cases, especially in urban centers. People are dying from entirely unrelated and treatable issues because the covid patients, 90-95% unvaccinated are taking up all the beds. How could the vaccine preventing hospitalization ever be a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing it's just not something a mandate is appropriate for.

Are they though? They're dealing with long covid about 1/3 of the time, that's not recovery, that's being crippled for life potentially with lung scarring and heart problems

This assumes that everyone should just get infected apparently, which is reckless and stupid for anyone to suggest, like the Great Barrington Commission did not so subtly. I'd hope you're not supporting much of anything that tripe advocated

Because many of them would prefer to not get infected again, call me crazy

That's just ridiculous, nobody is saying encourage getting a life threatening illness.

I'm saying acknowledge them as part of the front line of defense rather than only counting vaccinated towards herd immunity, and use them in studies, to find out which antibodies to which covid proteins they have that are protecting them vs future infections. Use that knowledge to make the next gen of vaccines.

 

[muichimotsu]

You have far too much faith in man...

And you have far too little, I'm not acting like people cannot be selfish or such

Yeah the self medicating are a problem because the fomulations they use aren't meant for humans, and are often not even meant to be ingested at all. Like the horse dewormer.. that's a topical paste you're not supposed to eat it. The ivermectin is probably not what's harming them but all the other ingredients for the topical paste.

Kind of like people gargling antibacterials or even using bleach sometime last year because a certain person suggested it with no basis

It's not a bad thing it's just not something a mandate is appropriate for.

It's going to reduce the strain on the healthcare system, that's one problem we keep seeing is not going to be fixed unless we legitimately flatten the curve

That's just ridiculous, nobody is saying encourage getting a life threatening illness.

I'm saying acknowledge them as part of the front line of defense rather than only counting vaccinated towards herd immunity, and use them in studies, to find out which antibodies to which covid proteins they have that are protecting them vs future infections. Use that knowledge to make the next gen of vaccines.

Problem is you have people acting like the survival rate means it isn't life threatening while ignoring long covid and the problem of large numbers, both of which compound to get people acting like this is even in the same zip code as the flu (it most certainly isn't, not even in the same viral family anyway)

I don't think people are suggesting antibodies of those who have survived isn't going to help, but again, it's not necessarily going to be feasible to mass produce vaccines with that information yet, maybe in a year or slightly less if I'm being optimistic.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Yeah, except that virus didn't have a vaccine and the only end in sight ended up with even a conservative estimate of 675K dead, upwards of 10 million by some estimates, which means the average would still be higher than the total worldwide deaths.The flu just killed everyone it could and then died out, do you want that worldwide? That's easily 80 million people or more dead

We probably have far less deaths (at least recorded, the numbers are a bit fuzzy) because of advancements in medical technology, but the problem of large numbers is still there, as well as survivorship bias.

This isn't pure oppression when the goal is striking a balance between freedom and security, not favoring either one purely over the other

I'm not saying the statistics are the same. I'm just saying there were shutdowns, quarantines and mask mandates a hundred years ago. And if there had been a vaccine, there most likely would have been a vaccine mandate too.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

People with natural immunity were 13x less likely to be infected with Delta vs the vaccinated.
why wouldn't they be part of the first line of defense?

Because it is not about the disease (never let a crisis go to waste) it is about controlling the masses. We are in the end of this world and it is all about worship

Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed

laws like this mandate will be instituted by governments dictating how and when we worship in order to fulfill this above prophecy.

This mandate is just designed to get the masses accustomed to strict obedience to the government.

 

[d taylor]

Did not support the shutting down of businesses, curfews, lockdowns, mask mandates or any of the other so called flatten the curve or keep you safe measures. So i see no reason to now support a vaccine mandate.

 

[HARK!]

as someone on Immunosuppressive therapy, I'm more worried about vaccinated people who stop taking precautions, feeling a false sense of protection, than I am around unvaccinated people who still take measures to avoid getting infected.
Obviously I'm most worried about unvaccinated that do not take precautions either.

In general, being disabled, I just stay home.

I have the same concerns (although I suspect to a lesser degree than you.) The vaccinated who are around me aren't generally wearing masks; and they take no steps to keep their distance. I wear a mask; but wearing a mask protects others far more than it protects me; and those who have been vaccinated are still capable of contracting and spreading the variants.

 

[HARK!]

In general, being disabled, I just stay home.

Well before this pandemic, I volunteered, to help a woman who had a kidney transplant, to find some level of normalcy in her life. I worked in her life for months; and as I was helping her; more and more she wanted to spend time talking to me. Repeatedly I would have to keep reminding her that she needed to keep her distance. Even with her transplant, she had already far exceeded her life expectancy. It grieved me to see her so desperate for companionship, that she would forget that she was in danger.

Now with Corona, I have a small taste of what she was going through.

My best friend faced similar circumstances shortly before his death. We had been friends since we were teenagers. He has done much to help me, and vice versa. I offered him my liver. That is what he meant to me. He meant more than a brother. We talked on the phone until he suddenly, unexpectedly, died in his home; but knowing that his time was short, we could not see each other face to face, without putting him in harms way.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Number of deaths for leading causes of death

• Heart disease: 659,041
  
  FastStats

According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans 2020–2025pdf icon[PDF-30.6MB]external icon, a healthy eating plan:

• Emphasizes fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and fat-free or low-fat milk and milk products
• Includes a variety of protein foods such as seafood, lean meats and poultry, eggs, legumes (beans and peas), soy products, nuts, and seeds.
• Is low in saturated fats, trans fats, cholesterol, salt (sodium), and added sugars
• Stays within your daily calorie needs

Healthy Eating for a Healthy Weight

So would you support food being a controlled substance, only to be prescribed by a dietician?

Don't give the autocrats any new ideas.

 

[Blade]

This one should be so easy right? Well people are not PRAISE GOD dropping over like flies. When people were the rate was something like 30% it was huge. All if ALL the deaths are true thats only 0.2% I think for some the hard thing is when Harris,Biden,Fauci tells you 2020/2021 no one should be forced to take the vaccine or ware mask. When Washington says "the Fed Gov can not do that".

Then it gets more confusing. Well you hear the problem is all those unvaccinated people. Yet we know NOW many not few not rare but many that had the vaccine within weeks or months got covid again and not from an unvaccinated person. This mandate when Biden says were protecting the vaccinated. What? Protecting the vaccinated? Are they not already protected? Yeah as Fauci said you can be vaccinated have covid and not know it and spread it.. you the vaccinated can spread covid. Yes yes I know "its not me .. its that OTHER person".

When you read a study with 800k and they found if your vaccinated you are 13times more likely to get covid vs those that got covid are now are immune to it.

All of this...so many of us run with stats and facts and studies we agree with. Anyway in 2016 then again same prophet June 2019 the lord told me about a pandemic world wide that the unscrupulous will take advantage of it. This as one watch was known said by GOD before Nov/Dec 2019 when no one on this planet knew about it.

So for me...I don't follow that preacher yet.. He was spot on. Do we see anyone taking advantage of it? Washington, Media, Doctors, Hospitals everywhere. Pfizer Chief Scientist Michael Yeadon talked about what if this or that happens... he was right.

I have not gotten the shot the jab...the jab? For me .. I'd be dead if I got the JAB! Who would want that? HAHA. But why get the shot? All my life lived by faith knowing expereniing the power of GOD all my life WHEN I stood on His word. Now what ANY MAN nor ANY GROUP said. I found it for my self I then KNOW not hope but know He will always keep His word not matter what is happening no matter what this body feels.. I don't hope that maybe if GOD has the time or feels like it or its maybe His will.. it IS Isa 53 5, Psa 91 1st Peter 2 24 on and on.

So that is why.. I have no doubts for if I did.. holy JESUS man I am cutting in line getting that shot! <---this offends some Christians. See I have a choice here... I can look at all those that are not healed vs all those that have been. I now doubt will stop God every time. Jesus.. all He could do in that town was lay hands on a few and teach because of doubt. Doubt.. let not that man think he will get anything from God.

Notice anything here? I just did.. I went from talking about the world then to GOD and faith in Him! Its easy to stand when there is no pain no sickness..easy to talk FAITH! But thats not me I speak in the mist of pain.. that has not right to stay and like always will go aka healed since by HIs strips I HAVE BE healed. You notice those times you prayed then stood by faith.. everything seemed to go wrong.. GOD got blamed by some for that others knew it was the enemy coming right away to steal kill and destroy and when they would not be moved.. the enemy left and everything got better. This is what I know no more no less. What I believe.

See I KNOW what I have to take vs no don't receive that in Jesus name.

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm not saying the statistics are the same. I'm just saying there were shutdowns, quarantines and mask mandates a hundred years ago. And if there had been a vaccine, there most likely would have been a vaccine mandate too.

Oh no, how awful, rule of law to protect the populace from a demonstrable threat. That's totally the same as Nazi Germany...except it isn't

Vaccines were still vastly novel at the time a century ago, but so what if there had been a mandate? Supreme Court made a decision in 1905 that would've supported it anyway

 

[muichimotsu]

Did not support the shutting down of businesses, curfews, lockdowns, mask mandates or any of the other so called flatten the curve or keep you safe measures. So i see no reason to now support a vaccine mandate.

So safety doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter when it concerns your willful focus on freedom above all else? Either way 1 word seems to describe this and it starts the same as hypothermia...

 

[HARK!]

That's totally the same as Nazi Germany...except it isn't

I find it interesting that this comparison crossed your mind.

 

[muichimotsu]

I find it interesting that this comparison crossed your mind.

Because that's what people in that vein of thought will do is go to the argument ad Hitlerum, a manifestation of Godwin's law. There's precedence, it's not some coincidence. Or what else are you trying to insinuate?

 

[HARK!]

Because that's what people in that vein of thought will do is go to the argument ad Hitlerum, a manifestation of Godwin's law. There's precedence, it's not some coincidence. Or what else are you trying to insinuate?

What people? I haven't seen anyone but you fulfill Godwin's law in this thread.

 

[d taylor]

So safety doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter when it concerns your willful focus on freedom above all else? Either way 1 word seems to describe this and it starts the same as hypothermia...

I am not against a person wearing a mask, gloves, being quarantine when they are sick or being vaccinated or what ever they need to do

 

[mnorian]

Admin hat on

This thread has been permanently closed for
multiple rule violations.

Hat off.​