Do you need the Holy Spirit to be saved?

HTacianas

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What if you just believe? What if you are only baptized in water?

The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.

What does your own tradition teach about this?
 
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AvgJoe

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A person is not saved if the Holy Spirit does not live within them.

Romans 8:9 New Living Translation (NLT)
9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)​
 
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Acts2:38

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What if you just believe? What if you are only baptized in water?

The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.

What does your own tradition teach about this?

You are missing an important key. It was the miraculous gifts that the Samaritans got that the ones in Jerusalem did not get in Acts 2 (referring to Acts 8:14-17). This had nothing to do with "salvation", and everything to do with miraculous gifts.

You receive remission for sins AND the Holy Spirit and get baptized after you have repented, confessed Christ with a believing heart. Acts 2:38
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Nicodemus asked Jesus what must one do to be born again? Jesus told him that it was a work of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit was like the wind we have no control.

Short answer -- yes it's the work of the Holy Spirit.

M-Bob
 
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HTacianas

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You are missing an important key. It was the miraculous gifts that the Samaritans got that the ones in Jerusalem did not get in Acts 2 (referring to Acts 8:14-17). This had nothing to do with "salvation", and everything to do with miraculous gifts.

You receive remission for sins AND the Holy Spirit and get baptized after you have repented, confessed Christ with a believing heart. Acts 2:38

I don't see how the people of Samaria received any gifts. They were chrismated by Peter and received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 is Peter himself baptizing and chrismating.
 
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Hazelelponi

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What if you just believe? What if you are only baptized in water?

The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.

What does your own tradition teach about this?

I believe that we aren't saved apart from the Holy Spirit. Scripture states that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are initially justified as a guarantor for our ultimate salvation upon death. It's how we have surety of our salvation. (Ephesians 1:13)
 
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redleghunter

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What if you just believe? What if you are only baptized in water?

The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.

What does your own tradition teach about this?
This is what Paul taught:

Romans 8: NASB

9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
 
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bcbsr

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What if you just believe? What if you are only baptized in water?

The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.

What does your own tradition teach about this?
You receive the Holy Spirit after you come to faith.

Eph 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ga 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

"And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9
 
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HTacianas

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You receive the Holy Spirit after you come to faith.

Eph 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ga 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

"And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Rom 8:9

Yes, you do in fact receive the Holy Spirit after coming to faith. After coming to faith a person is baptized and then chrismated. Chrismation is what is meant by "sealed with the Holy Spirit".
 
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Hazelelponi

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Yes, you do in fact receive the Holy Spirit after coming to faith. After coming to faith a person is baptized and then chrismated. Chrismation is what is meant by "sealed with the Holy Spirit".

The Holy Spirit is a living being, He's the Spirit of God.

What some do in Chrismation is a sacrament that you do on babies or children and as such is unbiblical.

The Holy Spirit decends upon those who believe, (actually understand and believe) as a gift from God.. it's not conveyed by men upon those who don't believe, or don't even know what's going on. It's not a rite.

It is the Holy Spirit under the New Covenant is who writes God's law on our hearts and minds.

That isn't men, it's not the church because scripture says and no more will they teach their neighbor or say know the Lord because they will all know Him from the least to the greatest.

Yet, we can all agree that time is now, we are now under the New Covenant and the vessel to knowing God is the Spirit of the Living God.

I suspect it is major points such as this that spell some of the more serious theological differences.. if you believe you can your self anoint an infant with the Spirit of the Living God it's little wonder you believe the Spirit of God can be lost.

Where as with us over on this side, we believe that the Spirit of the Living God decends upon someone who is saved as a guarantor, and since we actually live and experience that and know it's truly done through our (often powerfully) changed lives, we get to rest in the promises of God and the surety of our salvation. (A far more confident state as to our standing before God)

Ill be staying out of the debate.
 
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RDKirk

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What if you just believe? What if you are only baptized in water?

The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.

What does your own tradition teach about this?

Actually, they did have the Holy Spirit before Peter and John got there. They hadn't spoken in tongues before Peter and John got there because speaking in tongues was only to prove to Peter and John that they had the Holy Spirit.

Notice that Cornelius actually spoke in tongues before being baptized--even before Peter had finished his sermon. As Peter reported, speaking in tongues was the proof to him that the Holy Spirit was already in Cornelius.

Yes, the Holy Spirit comes to abide within a person who believes, but the Holy Spirit is not dependent on any third-party guys doing anything first. From what we actually see happen in scripture, the Holy Spirit only uses tongues to demonstrate to third-parties that He's there...when they are such doofuses that they need such proof.
 
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Acts2:38

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I don't see how the people of Samaria received any gifts. They were chrismated by Peter and received the Holy Spirit.

No, they were most likely baptized by Philip and any other companions not mentioned (see verse 12-13). Peter didn't join them until after they were baptized. Peter WAS the one, along with John (see verse 14) that laid hands so they could receive miraculous gifts though. See further for more explanation.

Note that the Apostles had to "lay hands" on the people for them to receive that power.

In context, if we need an Apostle to be saved, we are in serious trouble since there are no apostles alive since Johns death (died after writing the book of Revelation). John was the last apostle. So with that in mind, the context of this clearly refers to miraculous gifts.

See Acts 8 again here
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Philip is not an apostle nor does Philip have the power to lay hands to pass on miracles. Notice later that the apostles are the ones that had to come and lay hands

See more now here for further understanding of context

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

This all is speaking of miraculous power received by laying of hands. Man cannot lay hands and give salvation to people. Only obedience to the gospel does one receive salvation. Once such "obedience" is to be baptized 1 Peter 3:21; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; and the many many other verses in support of this.

Acts 2:38 is Peter himself baptizing and chrismating.

Is that important "who" baptizes?
Or is the act of non saved, becoming saved, the key in Acts 2:38?

Nowhere in the bible does it say a Christian has to be the one baptizing. However, being baptized is the only way to become a Christian.

It is the only way one can have remission of sins AND receive the Holy Spirit (salvation not miraculous gifts)

It is the only way one can BE IN Christ Galatians 3:27

It is the only way, of those IN Christ, to receive spiritual blessings Ephesians 1:3
 
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paul1149

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The men and women of Samaria believed and were baptized, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John went there and chrismated them, see Acts 8:12-17.
The key is to distinguish between receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit and being anointed with His power. Romans 8 and other places have that the HS indwells those who are His. But Acts 8 is about something different:

For He had not yet come down on any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. -Acts 8:16​

The key word there is "ep" - upon. The Holy Spirit comes upon the believer who asks and anoints him with power.
 
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