Do you KNOW that your saved?

[MissytheButterfly]

Originally posted by eldermike
Pax,

you said: <
Elder, if only it were true.

If the Bible is so clear, then how do you explain the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations who can't agree on what the Bible teaches? (Keep in mind, that all these denominations claim to go by sola scriptura, "scripture alone".)>

I lead (facilitate) a small group in my home every Thursday night. We have 5 denominations (including RCC) represented at this time. For the purpose of meeting in an orderly manner, and in a right spirit we agree on a few central truths, if we can't agree on these, you can't come. (not going to list them here) We do not allow argument or pressure to change any views. This group was formed from members of the church in which I serve. The additional people from other denoms. found us by word of mouth. We encourage attendees to stay in the church God has called them too. If you don't feel called to a church then seek God first. (We fish for the lost, not the saved)

What I have discovered in the last year from this group is this: We agree on most things. People are hungry for the word of God and that The church (all) is in rebellion in several ways; (a sample) racial discrimination, worldly bent, sexual perversions, attempts to run the church on human goodness, using the worlds standards for conduct/structure, and many other ways.

I have learned that people do not believe in miracles, in prayer, in giving, and that we count things by the worlds economic standards and not by God's economy. That we lack faith, that we equate busyness in God's house with doing His will. I have learned that we have lost touch with personal and corporate spiritual disciplines. I have learned that we read into scripture what we are justifying.

Pax, We can't teach the bible until we are teaching the elect. The church is full of the world. (I am going to catch it for saying this)
The Bible is non-sense to the world.
The elect will hear His voice, no matter the denomination, this group is a testimony to that fact.
I explain the divisions in the church this way: It divides over sin, multiplies by obedience.

Blessings

Elder Mike the above post was fantastic, especially about the elect hearing His voice no matter what denomination. Same point I keep trying to make..to no avail. But thank you for saying it so eloquently.

Bless you,
Missy

 

[eldermike]

Missy,

You are most welcome, and thanks for the encouragement.

Blessings to you

 

[PaxTecum]

Only one Christian communion in the world fully fits the biblical, credal, and patristic description of the "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church" in union with the successors of the apostles and Peter. That communion is the Catholic Church. It should, however, be understood that though it teaches that the fullness of revelation subsists within it, the Catholic Church does not teach that only those in visible communion with it are Christian. Rather, the Church holds that all those who are validly baptized in other Christian denominations are in real but imperfect communion with the Catholic Church and have a right to the name of "Christian." Further, the Church teaches that though we can know where the Church is, but we cannot know where it is not. Thus, it acknowledges the possibility of the Holy Spirit's saving activity even among those who do not belong to the Christian tradition in a visible way. This is not to say that there is salvation outside the Church. Rather, it is to say that an affirmative response -- however imperfect -- to the Spirit of Christ in any human heart anywhere and at any time is, ipso facto, an affirmative response to membership in Christ's Holy Catholic Church, even if neither Christ nor the Church is known by name to the one saying "yes." It was in precisely this way that the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were saved and it is equally possible that those innocently ignorant of Christ and his Church today may be saved in this way as well. This is strongly indicated by the parable of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25, wherein both the saved and lost are from "the nations" who apparently are entirely unconscious that they are serving or rejecting Christ according to their love of neighbor. None of this is to say that full membership in the Catholic Church is optional; those who know the Catholic Church to be the Church Christ has established are obliged by conscience to seek communion with it. But it is to say that those who do not know this are not, simply by virtue of ignorance, necessarily cut off from it.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

"Only one Christian communion in the world fully fits the biblical, credal, and patristic description of the "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church" in union with the successors of the apostles and Peter. That communion is the Catholic Church."

OK...even thought my buttons are pushed I will TRY to bite my tongue here...
OWWWWWW t hurts!
I disagree with you Eric. I have seen communion in 6 differant church and THEY all do it the same.
To say that the only church that does communion correctly is the RCC is way out of line.
I understand you are catholic, and I understand what you believe because I once was catholic. But please do not say that every other church is less creditable because its not Catholic. Every single person, who has Christ living in them make up the one "true" church regardless of denomination.
GEL

 

[VOW]

To Greenie:

Pax wasn't passing judgment, he was giving the "OFFICIAL CATHOLIC POSITION" on Christian faiths outside of the Catholic Church. And the word "Communion" as he used it means fellowship and rapport, he's not talking about Holy Communion.

Holy Communion is another topic entirely, and Catholics have a completely different understanding of Communion than other Christian faiths.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[MissytheButterfly]

Originally posted by GreenEyedLady
"Only one Christian communion in the world fully fits the biblical, credal, and patristic description of the "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church" in union with the successors of the apostles and Peter. That communion is the Catholic Church."

OK...even thought my buttons are pushed I will TRY to bite my tongue here...
OWWWWWW t hurts!
I disagree with you Eric. I have seen communion in 6 differant church and THEY all do it the same.
To say that the only church that does communion correctly is the RCC is way out of line.
I understand you are catholic, and I understand what you believe because I once was catholic. But please do not say that every other church is less creditable because its not Catholic. Every single person, who has Christ living in them make up the one "true" church regardless of denomination.
GEL

I agree Gel. And besides what you said...where in the BIBLE does it say one way of giving communion is better than another ??

Thanks for your post Gel,
Missy

 

[VOW]

Pax wasn't discussing Holy Communion, he was discussing FULL FELLOWSHIP.

Holy Communion is another topic entirely!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Missy-
Good I am glad I'm not the only one who felt this way.
No ones church is any better or more holy than they other, like I said before....WE the people make up the church of God just as WE the people make AMERICA!
HUGS
GEL

 

[MissytheButterfly]

Amen GEL!!!

 

[KC Catholic]

GEL - Missy, I think you are confusing the terms that are being disucssed.

When we say full communion ...we're talking fellowship, NOT the act of taking communion.

No one is trying to imply that one church is better than another.

But keep things in perspective - the Catholic Church does claim that it contains the full deposit of Christ's teachings.

You have to be honest and realize that because of the Reformation, and the continuous splitting off of churches that some where along the line there are items that are missing that were once shared by all.

Example: Priests, nuns....these are from the sacrament of "Holy Orders". Most Protestant churches do not have "Holy Orders" even though Christ established the priesthood.

Now, is that saying that one denomination is better than another? No, but one may be more complete in its teachings, practices and beliefs because it has not strayed from the original design that was established 2000 years ago.

Thats not meant to be a slam - its plain fact.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I must diagree.
There are many things that the RCC does NOT do that other protestant churchs do that are biblical.
Regardless of whether its talking about Holy Communion or fellowship, I have been to churchs that have a more biblical fellowship than the RC.
Maybe i should ask what your definition of fellowship really is. I have notice that the word fellowship can mean differant things to differant people.
I am not going to subject myself to another RC debate. I promised myself I wouldn't do that.
So I disagree....plain and simply
GEL

 

[eldermike]

This thread has gone to a new level. I will admit that when I read the last few post I was feeling like a cat being held under a hot water spigot. But then I calmed down and realized that the reformation was God's work (hope this isn't news to any of you) and I also realized that we are still a family. (I have a few uncles that just drive me nuts.)

1PE 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

HEB 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12 He says,

HEB 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

HEB 7:26 Such a high priest meets our need--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

HEB 10:8 First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Blessings from a member of the Holy Order of Baptist,

Mike

 

[Julie]

Erwin has informed me that this forum is NON-DENOMINATIONAL and to promote unity.
We all need to try to discuss
the topics WITHOUT bringing our church or religion into it. Moderators especially should be enforcing
and obeying this mission statement.
Julie

Christian Forums was established as a free, non-profit and non-denominational online
Christian community to unite Christians of every denomination together as one body.

 

[Caedmon]

Julie, I understand what you're saying, but the title of this forum is "Interfaith Discussion".

My question to you is: How do we discuss our different faiths WITHOUT "bringing our church or religion into it"?

I'll agree that this thread has had its discourteous moments, but I haven't seen any outright flames. And if I've offended any of you, I want to apologize. I don't want any bad blood between us, cuz I love you guys! Y'all are my bwuddohs and sistohs!

 

[MissytheButterfly]

Originally posted by KC Catholic
GEL - Missy, I think you are confusing the terms that are being disucssed.

When we say full communion ...we're talking fellowship, NOT the act of taking communion.

No one is trying to imply that one church is better than another.

But keep things in perspective - the Catholic Church does claim that it contains the full deposit of Christ's teachings.

You have to be honest and realize that because of the Reformation, and the continuous splitting off of churches that some where along the line there are items that are missing that were once shared by all.

Example: Priests, nuns....these are from the sacrament of "Holy Orders". Most Protestant churches do not have "Holy Orders" even though Christ established the priesthood.

Now, is that saying that one denomination is better than another? No, but one may be more complete in its teachings, practices and beliefs because it has not strayed from the original design that was established 2000 years ago.

Thats not meant to be a slam - its plain fact.

Um..I knew what we were discussing...I just don't believe in the Catholic Holy Orders. My church goes by the BIBLE ALONE, we don't have special tracts, and some books written by the church, etc we should go by. We go by THE WORD and that is the BIBLE. If Catholics believe in Holy Orders, hey that's their right...besides the priesthood (but the one I have read of in the Bible is very different than the Catholic version) I don't see the Biblical documentation for it. In my life, if it's not documented in the Bible, it's simply not my personal belief, that's all...And to me, The Bible is the Full deposit of Christs teaching period. Just my opinion so no one get devastated because I'm not going to argue about what I believe.

 

[MissytheButterfly]

Originally posted by GreenEyedLady
I must diagree.
There are many things that the RCC does NOT do that other protestant churchs do that are biblical.
Regardless of whether its talking about Holy Communion or fellowship, I have been to churchs that have a more biblical fellowship than the RC.
Maybe i should ask what your definition of fellowship really is. I have notice that the word fellowship can mean differant things to differant people.
I am not going to subject myself to another RC debate. I promised myself I wouldn't do that.
So I disagree....plain and simply
GEL

I would have to say I agree on this one GEL, at least I know my church goes by Biblical information to conduct our services, we don't have little books or tracts, etc to tell us how we should live. It's the Bible OR NOTHING!

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by Julie
Erwin has informed me that this forum is NON-DENOMINATIONAL and to promote unity.
We all need to try to discuss
the topics WITHOUT bringing our church or religion into it. Moderators especially should be enforcing
and obeying this mission statement.
Julie

Julie - Being an Administrator...I am well aware of the goals of the "entire" forum.

This forum is for discussing our church and religious affiliation.

Thanks.

 

[MissytheButterfly]

LOL, KC thank you. I was trying to cut and copy and Oh goodness..just to say what you just said..LOL. Thanks...

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by MissytheButterfly


I would have to say I agree on this one GEL, at least I know my church goes by Biblical information to conduct our services, we don't have little books or tracts, etc to tell us how we should live. It's the Bible OR NOTHING!

Ladies...that is fine if you do not agree or accept what we are telling you.

It does not change facts or history - that's why they are called "Protestants" because they are prostesting the authority and teachings of the Catholic Church.

Btw...we don't use little books or tracts to conduct our services. Both of you are former Catholics, so you should know what we do and what we DON'T do.

Everything that Catholics do can and IS supported by scripture, including the Priesthood, Eucharist, Confession, Baptism, etc.

You belong to an organziation that has decided on their own merits, wills and intellects to reject what has been taught, believed and accepted for 1500 years.

That is your problem - not the Catholics here or our churches issue.

 

[MissytheButterfly]

Originally posted by KC Catholic


Ladies...that is fine if you do not agree or accept what we are telling you.

It does not change facts or history - that's why they are called "Protestants" because they are prostesting the authority and teachings of the Catholic Church.

Btw...we don't use little books or tracts to conduct our services. Both of you are former Catholics, so you should know what we do and what we DON'T do.

Everything that Catholics do can and IS supported by scripture, including the Priesthood, Eucharist, Confession, Baptism, etc.

You belong to an organziation that has decided on their own merits, wills and intellects to reject what has been taught, believed and accepted for 1500 years.

That is your problem - not the Catholics here or our churches issue.

I have never been Catholic! Who said that ? I went to Catholic school because it was an excellent education and my mom chose to send me there...And the school knew I wasn't Catholic when I came there and they were fine with it. So putting me in you used to be Catholic sentence is false.

My Church isn't protesting anything. We are living by the Bible, period. And everything WE do is supported by the Bible.

And like I said, I don't believe in certain things Catholic churches teach, but I respect their right to believe whatever they want. As I said before.

So one can take it or leave it.