Do you have to see the Cross as Jewish, before you can understand it, as a Jew?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So I posted something about seeing the cross in a Jewish way. My friend HARK! asked me to post here.

The point was simply this: people see in the cross, what they want to see.

The foundation for this observation was simply thus: people of the world, do not know how to distinguish between one Jew and another - as Jesus said "if they hate my word, they will hate yours" - but why is this the case?

The point being the case that people will see themselves in Jesus on the cross, is that it will be when other people like them do the same - and this will not happen without Jews being first!

Thus, I said with confidence that the cross, was a Jewish cross!

If I was going to teach something, I wouldn't know what it was: I am basically just relating how I have been hated, that is, that it doesn't or didn't mean anything to those who hated me, that I could have been more Jewish than I was.

 

[HARK!]

Shalom Gottservant,

Thank you for taking the time to meet me here.

I think that I'm beginning to understand what you mean; but I initially responded that I thought that it was a Roman pale, when you mentioned a Jewish cross. Again, I think that I'm beginning to understand what you mean; but I still don't understand your initial response:

Peter's crucifixion upside down, proves that the Roman's knew what the cross was: but not what it was, they were supposed to do with it!

But I take your point: it could be more Jewish, yet!!

What did the Romans know that the cross was; and what were they supposed to do with it?

I did some quick research after you made that statement; and the prevailing story on the web, is that Kepha felt unworthy to die in the same manner as Yahshua.

What can you tell me?

 

[Tolworth John]

No, there is no need to see the cross as anything other than a degrading method of slowly killing someone
Crucifixion was adopted by the Romans from the Persians and was used on those consider non-human is not Roman etc.

The only Jewish element is the curse found in Deuteronomy for anyone hung on a tree.
That emphasizes how degrading a death Jesus willingly endured..

 

[Tolworth John]

No, there is no need to see the cross as anything other than a degrading method of slowly killing someone
Crucifixion was adopted by the Romans from the Persians and was used on those consider non-human is not Roman etc.

The only Jewish element is the curse found in Deuteronomy for anyone hung on a tree.
That emphasizes how degrading a death Jesus willingly endured..

 

[pinacled]

No, there is no need to see the cross as anything other than a degrading method of slowly killing someone
Crucifixion was adopted by the Romans from the Persians and was used on those consider non-human is not Roman etc.

The only Jewish element is the curse found in Deuteronomy for anyone hung on a tree.
That emphasizes how degrading a death Jesus willingly endured..

In addtion.
Not only is the form of punishment degrading. It is a gruesome example of injustice and oppression flaunted by those whose corruption was supported by certain authorities.
To go so far as murdering a thief is unlawful by even human standards of fairness and sound judgement.
The culmination of power corrupting absolutely is found with a court that would convict an innocent to death.

 

[pinacled]

Hi there,

So I posted something about seeing the cross in a Jewish way. My friend HARK! asked me to post here.

The point was simply this: people see in the cross, what they want to see.

The foundation for this observation was simply thus: people of the world, do not know how to distinguish between one Jew and another - as Jesus said "if they hate my word, they will hate yours" - but why is this the case?

The point being the case that people will see themselves in Jesus on the cross, is that it will be when other people like them do the same - and this will not happen without Jews being first!

Thus, I said with confidence that the cross, was a Jewish cross!

If I was going to teach something, I wouldn't know what it was: I am basically just relating how I have been hated, that is, that it doesn't or didn't mean anything to those who hated me, that I could have been more Jewish than I was.

A Jewish perspective of the cross in relation to what ole sh'aul wrote concerning?
Romans 8:13
Colossians 3:5
Then the only thing to put death is what is deemed to do so per Torah.

If this is what you are attempting to convey.
I find the thought worth exploring.
78 Bible verses about Death Penalty

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

In addtion.
Not only is the form of punishment degrading. It is a gruesome example of injustice and oppression flaunted by those whose corruption was supported by certain authorities.
To go so far as murdering a thief is unlawful by even human standards of fairness and sound judgement.
The culmination of power corrupting absolutely is found with a court that would convict an innocent to death.

It is important to remember what a fault is in a loving manner so that The Truth is upheld in the spirit of Torah.
A fault is not something as the worldly describes such. No, the worldly will call good evil(or hateful discrimination. The worldly look for faults they deem unworthy inorder to demean another . To burden others with imputing sin when there is none.
Where as a servant of the Lord will remove burdens of guilt that was laid on a person by the wicked.

Brothers, suppose someone is caught doing something wrong. You who have the Spirit should set him right, but in a spirit of humility, keeping an eye on yourselves so that you won’t be tempted too. 2 Bear one another’s burdens — in this way you will be fulfilling the Torah’s true meaning, which the Messiah upholds.

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[pinacled]

It is important to remember what a fault is in a loving manner so that The Truth is upheld in the spirit of Torah.
A fault is not something as the worldly describes such. No, the worldly will call good evil(or hateful discrimination. The worldly look for faults they deem unworthy inorder to demean another . To burden others with imputing sin when there is none.
Where as a servant of the Lord will remove burdens of guilt that was laid on a person by the wicked.

Brothers, suppose someone is caught doing something wrong. You who have the Spirit should set him right, but in a spirit of humility, keeping an eye on yourselves so that you won’t be tempted too. 2 Bear one another’s burdens — in this way you will be fulfilling the Torah’s true meaning, which the Messiah upholds.

Blessed be The Holy One

Malachi 1

 

[pinacled]

Malachi 1

A burden of The Word of the Lord is apart of the armor of Shabbat Shalom in a helmet with ears and eyes to see.
In humility a person will ask the Lord for forgiveness for wrongs against The Lord and neighbors.
Yet a burden of pain caused by neighbors and family are often carried and overlooked as unwarranted guilt.
This is one of the first lessons I learned when asking The Lord for forgiveness.
He asked, "anything else"?
The question itself instantly reached a place in my spirit that I hadn't even known needed healing from a burden.

Being apart of a Loving family means to have a Loving Father who reminds us with Malachi of the endless affection awarded the faithful.

When yosef was tending flocks with his 4 brothers as his father instructed. Yosef was sure in keeping ya'akov informed of the truth concerning matters of the fields being grazed.
Though ya'akov's eyes may have been dimmed in his elder age. His counsel is still of wisdom and purity in the spirit of Torah.
As yosef reported the Truth in concern for the welfare of his family he was not received well by his immediate 4 brothers nor his elder 5 brothers.
Even so, his report that the land was not given rest was true. And i imagine the readers here recall what occured following his departure.
During such time of the 10 brothers(yosef included)stewardship of the fields, young binyamin would of still been with one of the hand maidens or Leah. Perhaps not even weaned yet.

After what yosef endured, imagine what the concern for his youngest brother's well being must of been like.
A Light burden.

Blessings Always

 

[Hiep]

Hi there,

So I posted something about seeing the cross in a Jewish way. My friend HARK! asked me to post here.

The point was simply this: people see in the cross, what they want to see.

The foundation for this observation was simply thus: people of the world, do not know how to distinguish between one Jew and another - as Jesus said "if they hate my word, they will hate yours" - but why is this the case?

The point being the case that people will see themselves in Jesus on the cross, is that it will be when other people like them do the same - and this will not happen without Jews being first!

Thus, I said with confidence that the cross, was a Jewish cross!

If I was going to teach something, I wouldn't know what it was: I am basically just relating how I have been hated, that is, that it doesn't or didn't mean anything to those who hated me, that I could have been more Jewish than I was.

I feel like messianic judaism is very closely related to Hebrew Roots.

 

[pinacled]

A burden of The Word of the Lord is apart of the armor of Shabbat Shalom in a helmet with ears and eyes to see.
In humility a person will ask the Lord for forgiveness for wrongs against The Lord and neighbors.
Yet a burden of pain caused by neighbors and family are often carried and overlooked as unwarranted guilt.
This is one of the first lessons I learned when asking The Lord for forgiveness.
He asked, "anything else"?
The question itself instantly reached a place in my spirit that I hadn't even known needed healing from a burden.

Being apart of a Loving family means to have a Loving Father who reminds us with Malachi of the endless affection awarded the faithful.

When yosef was tending flocks with his 4 brothers as his father instructed. Yosef was sure in keeping ya'akov informed of the truth concerning matters of the fields being grazed.
Though ya'akov's eyes may have been dimmed in his elder age. His counsel is still of wisdom and purity in the spirit of Torah.
As yosef reported the Truth in concern for the welfare of his family he was not received well by his immediate 4 brothers nor his elder 5 brothers.
Even so, his report that the land was not given rest was true. And i imagine the readers here recall what occured following his departure.
During such time of the 10 brothers(yosef included)stewardship of the fields, young binyamin would of still been with one of the hand maidens or Leah. Perhaps not even weaned yet.

After what yosef endured, imagine what the concern for his youngest brother's well being must of been like.
A Light burden.

Blessings Always

"It is better to give than receive......".
Matthew 18:16

With The Lords guidance through the terrain of the Torah.
Consider yosef going and warning his brethren to give the land rest only to be turned away. Imagine that just as our Lord instructed", yosef went to his father on account of concern for the well being of the family.
Then as a consequence became reviled by his brothers to the extent that they even plotted against him.

A burden that even while treated as such. I believe yosef prayed for those who used him in such a manner.

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

I feel like messianic judaism is very closely related to Hebrew Roots.

Sure, of course eber roots bless HaShem.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The foundation for this observation was simply thus: people of the world, do not know how to distinguish between one Jew and another - as Jesus said "if they hate my word, they will hate yours" - but why is this the case?

People often see what they are taught, without knowing if it is true.

Jesus says people hate us, (ekklesia born again by the will of the Father in heaven),
because they hate Him.
He says if we stand up for truth, we will be (as happens) kicked out of our groups, families, associations, businesses, and so forth.
(the world hates the truth)

Nothing to do with the cross/ execution stake/ living tree He hung upon when crucified.

 

[pinacled]

People often see what they are taught, without knowing if it is true.

Jesus says people hate us, (ekklesia born again by the will of the Father in heaven),
because they hate Him.
He says if we stand up for truth, we will be (as happens) kicked out of our groups, families, associations, businesses, and so forth.
(the world hates the truth)

Nothing to do with the cross/ execution stake/ living tree He hung upon when crucified.

Remember that even as Yeshua was there upon the tree, a revulsion is accounted.
1 Peter 2

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Remember that even as Yeshua was there upon the tree, a revulsion is accounted.
1 Peter 2

The reference doesn't render, again. THus, when you give a (short) specific reference as the source of your idea, please post it out, in full in context, so we can read it as you mean it. Thanks.

 

[pinacled]

The reference doesn't render, again. THus, when you give a (short) specific reference as the source of your idea, please post it out, in full in context, so we can read it as you mean it. Thanks.

If ever you have been reviled for doing the right and good work in faith for either family and or neighbor.
Remember that Yeshua was reviled even as he suffered on the tree.
Guard your heart and allow no one to impute sin where there is none.
It is a thief that would attempt an imposition of guilt in order to steal ones peace.
Romans 2

 

[pinacled]

Shalom Gottservant,

Thank you for taking the time to meet me here.

I think that I'm beginning to understand what you mean; but I initially responded that I thought that it was a Roman pale, when you mentioned a Jewish cross. Again, I think that I'm beginning to understand what you mean; but I still don't understand your initial response:



What did the Romans know that the cross was; and what were they supposed to do with it?

I did some quick research after you made that statement; and the prevailing story on the web, is that Kepha felt unworthy to die in the same manner as Yahshua.

What can you tell me?

What's vital to focus on is Yeshua The Lion of the tribe of yhdh. The Lamb with 7 eyes and 7 horns who offers his life freely and without blemish.

Washing in His Word will not only cleanse the flesh but will nourish the soul with living water.

The instrumental gift of salvation is Yeshua in flesh.
The tree of Life himself.

Blessed be The Holy One

 

[Hiep]

I did some quick research after you made that statement; and the prevailing story on the web, is that Kepha felt unworthy to die in the same manner as Yahshua.

What can you tell me?

That's what I've heard too. He felt he was unworthy to die the same manner christ did, so he was crucified upside down.

 

[pinacled]

That's what I've heard too.

Then I suggest not only ignoring such.
But also practice sound judgement while abstaining from the cup of blood, meat, immorality, and.....so on offered by the enemies of Yeshua.

 

[HARK!]

That's what I've heard too. He felt he was unworthy to die the same manner christ did, so he was crucified upside down.

I don't know. I haven't found anything to back up that story. Something seems out of place about it.