Do you go directly to heaven after you die?

[mmksparbud]

The context is obvious and does not support what you are trying top make it say. Christ's bodily ascension is compared to David, who did not bodily ascend into heaven but his spirit is in heaven. Scripture is clear the spirit returns to God when we die.

You are free to twist the scriptures to your heart's desire. It clearly says that David did not ascend into heaven---says not one word about any spirit.

Again---if David's spirit is up there---why wouldn't his body be there also--like Jesus ascended up with His human, transfigured, body?

 

[ewq1938]

Again---if David's spirit is up there---why wouldn't his body be there also--like Jesus ascended up with His human, transfigured, body?

That should be obvious. Jesus was resurrected, David was not...not yet. You misunderstand the passage, and the state of the dead regarding sleep vs. not asleep. Soul sleep is a false doctrine, as most Christians know.

 

[mmksparbud]

That should be obvious. Jesus was resurrected, David was not...not yet. You misunderstand the passage, and the state of the dead regarding sleep vs. not asleep. Soul sleep is a false doctrine, as most Christians know.

But that is the point! Why must there be disembodied spirits up there? What is the propose of that? And Daniel M. says there is no resurrection when there obviously is. I am not interested in what "most Christians know." I am interested in what the bible says and even Jesus calls death sleep. "The dead know not anything." Why have disembodied spirits that don't know anything up there?

 

[ewq1938]

Why have disembodied spirits that don't know anything up there?

The spirits aren't dead which is why Jesus said God is not the God of the dead.

 

[mmksparbud]

The spirits aren't dead which is why Jesus said God is not the God of the dead.

Then why can't they have their bodies??? Again, what is the purpose of disembodied spirits? The bible says that the dead know not anything.
Isa_38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Isa 38:19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Jesus calls death sleep---Jesus says when He comes then we will get our reward, His reward is with Him. You say we get it when we die. I think I'll take His word for it.

 

[ewq1938]

Then why can't they have their bodies???

You should already know why.

 

[mmksparbud]

You should already know why.

You do not answer the questions. If I knew I wouldn't ask. Or don't you know?

 

[ewq1938]

You do not answer the questions. If I knew I wouldn't ask. Or don't you know?

Do you ever tire of arguing?

 

[mmksparbud]

Do you ever tire of arguing?

Apparently you don't. I do try and answer the questions. And you are evading the questions.

 

[DamianWarS]

I've heard two teachings about this subject. I've heard that a Christians spirit goes directly after death to be with Jesus and awaits the resurrection of the body and I've heard of soul sleep where a Christian sleeps in the ground until the resurrection and the time from death till resurrection is instantaneous. Which is truth? Why or why not?

I think soul sleeping is a concept that Paul probably never intended and he was just using sleeping as a euphemism for death. The OT had a very undeveloped concept of the afterlife. The place they describe was Sheol but this place is used indiscriminately for the righteous and unrighteous alike as well as often metaphorically. A study of Sheol actually reveals ignorance of the afterlife not knowledge and everything just got gets dump into one word. NT concepts tell of Hades and often Hades is likened to Sheol but since Hades is revealed to be an undesired place of the afterlife that the righteous are spared from Hades cannot be the same place. I see Sheol as a gate that all pass through, and once through that gate, it splits to a road that leads to punishment and a road that leads to reward. The OT only saw the gate but never knew what was beyond the gate wherein the NT we have further revelation.

We actually don't have a lot of information as to what the afterlife is so it's hard to answer with certainty. It may be a little more clear than the OT but it still is pretty foggy. We have Paul's words "to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord" and Christ's words on the cross "Today you will be with me in paradise". These remarks would seem to counter soul sleep but they are not airtight since it is only through inference. There are also examples where people return in spirit such as Moses and Elijah both appear on the Mount of Transfiguration and Samuel is summoned by King Saul through a medium. Elijah is tough since he never really died and was just carried away to Heaven but Moses and Samuel both did have physical death yet appear again in a physical form.

There is also a place called Heaven and a place called Hell (Hades). What are these places for if not the imediate dwelling place after death? The Bible tells us the dead will be resurrected into new incorruptible bodies and that heaven and earth will pass away and be created new. If true what is the point of Heaven or is it only the dwelling place for angels? It would seem the righteous dead never will make it there if soul sleep is the option since their next moment will be the resurrection then they will live with Christ for a 1000 years on earth... then earth and heaven are destroyed so they never make it.

 

[salt-n-light]

Our spirits go directly to heaven when we die.

The purpose of the resurrection is to reunite our spirits with our bodies.

Our bodies decay, we will end up with new glorified ones at resurrection.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Our bodies decay, we will end up with new glorified ones at resurrection.

You know this raises a very interesting question. If our bodies are basically skeletons or cremated remains how will our spirits be reunited with them? Or will our spirits not be reunited with our bodies until AFTER the resurrection and we receive our new bodies?

 

[eleos1954]

Again, we can move on but in order to do so please address the post in which I responded to you.

ok well let's do one at a time

2nd Corinthians 5 (KJV)

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

rather to be absent from the body - would we rather be absent from the body and be with the Lord ... Yes, of course ... does not say when we are absent from the body (earthly death) that we ARE with the Lord.

If, one goes to be with the Lord at earthly death, has judgement occurred?

 

[BobRyan]

There is something further to notice about Jesus’ answer in Matthew 22:30 concerning the physical nature of the simple life after death resurrected body: For in the resurrection they ….. are as the angels of God in heaven. The Bible calls angels spirits in Hebrews 1:14. Are they not all ministering spirits..... Yet angels throughout the scripture have physical bodies. They may not be physical as we understand physical, but in the scriptures they eat, drink, appear, disappear, walk through walls, are constantly mistaken for men, and take on different form, walk in fire, etc. etc.

True - Angels have physical bodies but they also have properties that enable them to do things in the physical world that we cannot do.

Scripture for that statement please.
I got scripture for mine:
Revelation 21: 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.......22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
So here we have an angel showing John a vision in 68 AD who was once a man.

No text says the "angel was once a man" and no text says "John was once a man". John was a man - and the angel was an angel. John in the resurrection will still be a man.

Jesus himself (though He is God the Son, second person of the Godhead, Incarnate as man) retains his humanity "the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Tim 2:5

1 John 3:4 " 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. "

Luke 24
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Heb 12:23
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I've heard two teachings about this subject. I've heard that a Christians spirit goes directly after death to be with Jesus and awaits the resurrection of the body and I've heard of soul sleep where a Christian sleeps in the ground until the resurrection and the time from death till resurrection is instantaneous. Which is truth? Why or why not?

Truthfully, I do not think we really know, as it is not clearly stated in the scriptures. Closest thing we have to this I believe, is "Abraham's bosom" the parable from Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Well the bible says that all will see him return even the ones who pierced him. So I guess somehow even those in heaven will be able to see their bodies become glorified. But if our spirits are not returned to our bodies until after the resurrection I don't know how that's possible. But then again idk how everyone will be able to see him return either. Especially when the soldiers who pierced him died like 2,000 years ago and are probably in Hades now.

1. Hades is a term for the grave as it is used in the NT text
2. Jesus did not say all the wicked who have ever lived would see Christ at the 2nd coming - only the wicked of his day who crucified Him. A "special" resurrection event for that specific group of the wicked.

 

[BobRyan]

Truthfully, I do not think we really know, as it is not clearly stated in the scriptures. Closest thing we have to this I believe, is "Abraham's bosom" the parable from Christ.

In that parable you have the case of the dead praying to the dead and Abraham as sovereign of all of heaven. Still even in that parable - Abraham states that to grant the request someone would need to be resurrected when he says "they will not believe though someone is raised from the dead"

 

[redleghunter]

Our spirits are united with glorified bodies in the resurrection on the last day.

Which would be our resurrected bodies. Jesus rose from the dead in the same body He was crucified but transformed into an imperishable body. He was later Glorified when ascending into Heaven.

 

[redleghunter]

You know this raises a very interesting question. If our bodies are basically skeletons or cremated remains how will our spirits be reunited with them? Or will our spirits not be reunited with our bodies until AFTER the resurrection and we receive our new bodies?

Dem dry bones...Meaning nothing is impossible with God.

Ezekiel 37

Ezekiel 37 NASB

 

[Neostarwcc]

Dem dry bones...Meaning nothing is impossible with God.

Ezekiel 37

Ezekiel 37 NASB

Right. I mean nothing is impossible but... Wouldn't it be really uncomfortable if we were placed into a cremated body? Unless our bodies are instantaneously changed. But that isn't what scripture says. Scripture says that the dead will rise first and then after that those who are alive with meet Jesus in the air.