Do you go directly to heaven after you die?

[martymonster]

They are "fallen asleep" according to 1 Thess 4 and the text says 'Christ brings with Him" those who have fallen asleep at the 2nd coming and resurrection of the saints - just as 1 Cor 15 describes that event as the time when we all get immortal bodies - who are saints.

The wicked are also raised in spirit bodies, but they will still posses their same carnal minds.

 

[BobRyan]

Both are false and both came from ancient Jewish thought because there was simply not enough info on the subject in the OT for them to come to a correct conclusion. The Apostles also wrestled with the subject because of this. Jesus however was the light and brought the light and cleared up the question.

Depending on the context of the verses the word resurrection is used to convey the idea that there is immediate life after death that includes a physical body. (Not physical as we know physical, but a physical body none the less.)


Matthew 22: 23-32. The same day the Sadducees came to him (Jesus), which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him………… 29. Jesus answered and said to them, You err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Good point - and it is there in Matt 22 that Jesus answers the challenge so as to "put the Sadducees to silence" An irrefutable proof of the future resurrection is given by Christ in Matt 22 that the Sadducees themselves found no way out of --

the Sadducees came to him (Jesus), which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him

31. "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living

There in that statement Christ has them by two statements that they fully agreed with. They could not deny the statement made by God to Moses in the book of Exodus "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? " AND they could not deny their own firmly held belied that " God is not the God of the dead, but of the living " -

The Sadducees could not back away from either statement for they had affirmed the both in their own teaching. But when you combine them - then the future resurrection is proven as the only way that God COULD be the God of Abraham at the time He is speaking to Moses at the burning bush and Abraham is dead..

Christ makes it clear that this is irrefutable proof of that future resurrection which is the only solution to the puzzle Christ has put to the Sadducees. "31. "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that..."

Ignoring almost every detail in that debate some Christians today would argue that Christ totally undercut his own proof of a future resurrection where HE makes that case that only in view of the future resurrection, can the statement of God be true as given to Moses saying " I AM the God of Abraham..." at the burning bush, by instead arguing that WITHOUT a future resurrection God was the God of Abraham while Abraham is dead.

How that escapes those people that are making that undercut argument is beyond me.

 

[martymonster]

Oh---They aren't alive as spirits---the dead know not anything.

Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you were getting at.

 

[BobRyan]

The wicked are also raised in spirit bodies, .

Do you have a "wicked raised in spirit bodies" text??

1 Cor 15 makes it clear that the saints are raised with physical bodies as does 2 Cor 5:1-4 make that same case.

 

[mmksparbud]

Both are false and both came from ancient Jewish thought because there was simply not enough info on the subject in the OT for them to come to a correct conclusion. The Apostles also wrestled with the subject because of this. Jesus however was the light and brought the light and cleared up the question.

Depending on the context of the verses the word resurrection is used to convey the idea that there is immediate life after death that includes a physical body. (Not physical as we know physical, but a physical body none the less.)


Matthew 22: 23-32. The same day the Sadducees came to him (Jesus), which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him………… 29. Jesus answered and said to them, You err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living 33. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. Jesus directly used the term “the resurrection” to describe the fact that the patriarchs were alive, not dead and the multitude was astonished by this statement. Why would that be? The belief that there was life after death was held by the vast majority of the multitude. They were certainly not astonished that Jesus would say the Patriarchs were alive anymore than Christians today would not be astonished; it is something they already believe. One can only assume they were astonished because they understood Jesus to say the Patriarchs were already resurrected, something that they understood to be a one time future event at the end of the world. As Martha states here: John 11: 23. Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again. 24. Martha said to him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: It was not unusual for Christ to differ with the culturally accepted beliefs of his day. What is strange, is that this scripture messes with consensus views of Christians today; as if nothing has ever changed in what believers hold to be true.
Here's an example to bring the significance of this scripture to light. Say there was a funeral of a child who from a family where they were all professing Christians. How often would their fellow Christians seek to comfort them with the words, "your child is in a better place , he is with Jesus now alive and happy and will be in heaven waiting for you." It's comforting and true! Yet if someone said the same words like this: "He is with Jesus now resurrected and happy and will be in heaven waiting for you." There would be looks of puzzlement, people may be offended, in fact the person in question may get a call from the pastor. Yet this is exactly how Jesus used the word resurrection, to describe the fact of immediate life after death that has nothing to do with dead bodies made alive, graves opening or future events.

There is something further to notice about Jesus’ answer in Matthew 22:30 concerning the physical nature of the simple life after death resurrected body: For in the resurrection they ….. are as the angels of God in heaven. The Bible calls angels spirits in Hebrews 1:14. Are they not all ministering spirits..... Yet angels throughout the scripture have physical bodies. They may not be physical as we understand physical, but in the scriptures they eat, drink, appear, disappear, walk through walls, are constantly mistaken for men, and take on different form, walk in fire, etc. etc. The point being is that our "inward" man is a spirit, just like the angels are spirits. We are not a cloud or a mist that floats around when these bodies die. When we step out of these bodies we step out on feet, we have legs, we have a body. It is physical, just not flesh and bone as we know physical right now. This can be seen in great detail in the scriptures below.

Here are three Bible stories that demonstrate point #1 again but also point #3 where a mans earthy physical body was changed into a heavenly physical body. Deuteronomy 34: 5. So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab , according to the word of the Lord. 6. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knows of his tomb unto this day. 2 Kings 2:11. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, which separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. Luke 9: 28. About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up to a mountain to pray. 29. As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30. Two men, Moses and Elijah, 31.Appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem.: We have two men. One of them, Moses; died, buried, his body still in the ground. The other Elijah, caught away to heaven. Yet here they are, both speaking to Jesus with the same bodies: they are alive, resurrected, and they have the appearance of angels. If resurrection is a one time future event how did this make it into the Bible? Moses has the same body as Elijah, Moses dead and buried and Elijah "raptured." See how this fits into the narrative of Jesus that in the resurrection they are physically. like the angels?

In another example of point #1 we have a story that includes someone who did not go to heaven but hell: Luke 16: 19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. 20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. 26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there. 27. Then he said, I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house: 28. For I have five brothers; that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment. 29. Abraham answered him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30. And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. 31. And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. This is not the end of the world; the rich man still has unbelieving kinfolk on earth, and Jesus said there "was" a certain rich man, indicating this happened in the past, before Christ and the NT. Also these individuals have physical bodies that are recognizable; the rich man recognizes both Lazarus and Abraham. Then there is the use of this language: he lifted up his eyes and saw; he is thirsty and wants a drop of water on his tongue because he is tormented in fire, clearly indicating a body. Plus he still cares for the welfare of his family even though he is in hell. These are not awaiting resurrection, they are already resurrected and it is the past. So how can it be said that the Bible teaches a one time future event called the resurrection when we have these examples of people already resurrected?

From:Resurrection

Jesus did not teach that at all. When He resurrected Lazarus, did He take him away from heaven? I'd be upset to have to come back to earth instead of being in heaven! Lazarus never said a word about it. None of those resurrected from the dead, either in the OT or the NT, had a single word to say about it.
Jesus Himself said it---
Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

(There is no punctuation in Greek---or Hebrew--this would more accurately read--:" I tell you today---thou shalt be with me in Paradise."

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus does not lie. He did not promise the thief he would be in Paradise with Him and then not deliver. He was telling him that He would be in Paradise. But Jesus did not go to His Father after His death---
He told Mary that very fact. He did not go to His Father until after He had seen Mary.

 

[BobRyan]

There is something further to notice about Jesus’ answer in Matthew 22:30 concerning the physical nature of the simple life after death resurrected body: For in the resurrection they ….. are as the angels of God in heaven. The Bible calls angels spirits in Hebrews 1:14. Are they not all ministering spirits..... Yet angels throughout the scripture have physical bodies. They may not be physical as we understand physical, but in the scriptures they eat, drink, appear, disappear, walk through walls, are constantly mistaken for men, and take on different form, walk in fire, etc. etc.

True - Angels have physical bodies but they also have properties that enable them to do things in the physical world that we cannot do.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Jesus did not teach that at all. When He resurrected Lazarus, did He take him away from heaven? I'd be upset to have to come back to earth instead of being in heaven! Lazarus never said a word about it. None of those resurrected from the dead, either in the OT or the NT, had a single word to say about it.
Jesus Himself said it---
Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

(There is no punctuation in Greek---or Hebrew--this would more accurately read--:" I tell you today---thou shalt be with me in Paradise."

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus does not lie. He did not promise the thief he would be in Paradise with Him and then not deliver. He was telling him that He would be in Paradise. But Jesus did not go to His Father after His death---
He told Mary that very fact. He did not go to His Father until after He had seen Mary.

Your misreading what I said.

 

[All4Christ]

The Christian Church’s clear and consistent teaching and understanding of Scripture for thousands of years (regarding what happens after death) is as follows:

Upon death, the soul departs from the body. The physical body decays and is separated from life. The spirit, however, remains. “It is appointed for man to die once, and then comes the judgment” (paraphrased). Upon death, we experience what we call the particular judgment. Essentially, our souls experience a foretaste of the blessed state of the righteous or a foretaste of the torment of sinners. We experience the love / presence of God, which is blessedness for the righteous and torment for the sinners. (Hebrews 9:27$. We are not in soul sleep; we experience the presence of Christ upon our death (Philemon 1:23). Yet this is not the final judgment. The final judgment comes at the end, when the trump sounds, and our bodies - all of our bodies, will raise and we will be reunited with our body; an incorruptible body that is renewed. Then we will experience the last judgment (Matthew 25:30-36), for the resurrection of life or the resurrection of damnation (John 5:25-29)

I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every idle word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Mt 12.36).

For the Son of Man is to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will repay every man according to his works (Mt 16: 27, cf. Rev 2.23).

Over the past few centuries, teaching has changed in some churches. The understanding of Scripture was significantly consistent in the high level concepts, however, for the vast majority of the Church, both in the West and East. Certainly, we disagree about things, like purgatory, but the basic details are similar. The Lutheran Church (at least the LCMS), some Anglicans (I’m not sure about all), John Calvin, and even to an extent the Westminster articles of faith still hold this doctrine.

Ultimately, the soul is not asleep upon death. The soul immediately experiences blessedness or torment. The final judgment day will be when our bodies raise to eternal life or eternal damnation. Even when I was Pentecostal, I was taught that we will not have “soul sleep” and that we will be reunited with our bodies only upon the final judgment.

Jesus conquered death. Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death; and upon those in the tombs bestowing life. We no longer die without hope, but depart from life here on earth to life everlasting.

 

[martymonster]

Do you have a "wicked raised in spirit bodies" text??

1 Cor 15 makes it clear that the saints are raised with physical bodies as does 2 Cor 5:1-4 make that same case.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Good point - and it is there in Matt 22 that Jesus answers the challenge so as to "put the Sadducees to silence" An irrefutable proof of the future resurrection is given by Christ in Matt 22 that the Sadducees themselves found no way out of --

the Sadducees came to him (Jesus), which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him

31. "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living

There in that statement Christ has them by two statements that they fully agreed with. They could not deny the statement made by God to Moses in the book of Exodus "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? " AND they could not deny their own firmly held belied that " God is not the God of the dead, but of the living " -

The Sadducees could not back away from either statement for they had affirmed the both in their own teaching. But when you combine them - then the future resurrection is proven as the only way that God COULD be the God of Abraham at the time He is speaking to Moses at the burning bush and Abraham is dead..

Christ makes it clear that this is irrefutable proof of that future resurrection which is the only solution to the puzzle Christ has put to the Sadducees. "31. "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that..."

Ignoring almost every detail in that debate some Christians today would argue that Christ totally undercut his own proof of a future resurrection where HE makes that case that only in view of the future resurrection, can the statement of God be true as given to Moses saying " I AM the God of Abraham..." at the burning bush, by instead arguing that WITHOUT a future resurrection God was the God of Abraham while Abraham is dead.

How that escapes those people that are making that undercut argument is beyond me.

No, That is not what I said at all. What I said is that the general doctrine of resurrection is one of immediate life after death in a physical body. When we step out of these flesh and blood shells we will be stepping out of them on two legs, we will have arms and hands and eyes and ears, etc etc. And we will proceed to heaven or hell unless there is some kind of reprieve. There is no such thing as a future event called the resurrection of dead bodies in the ground.
Now resurrection, rise, risen is used to describe other things like the resurrection of a dead body like Lazarus or Jesus. It is also used illustratively to describe the new life we find in Christ.
As far as the general doctrine though. Resurrection is past for those who have died, present for those dyeing and future for those who are alive. As a doctrine it is there in opposition to false teachings about life after death like reincarnation, soul sleep, materialism and every other crazy thing the world came up with. But it is not a doctrine of God "uniting" us with the molecules of our dead flesh and blood bodies. We already have a far superior spiritual body like the angels .

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

True - Angels have physical bodies but they also have properties that enable them to do things in the physical world that we cannot do.

Scripture for that statement please.
I got scripture for mine:
Revelation 21: 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.......22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
So here we have an angel showing John a vision in 68 AD who was once a man.

 

[redleghunter]

I'm trying to make it more simple ... I look at many translations of the bible and yes the greek and hebrew using the strongs as well

what was this about?

Matthew 27:52-53
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

If all the saved go to heaven and are with the Lord, what is the purpose of the 1st resurrection? Who are in it?

Again, we can move on but in order to do so please address the post in which I responded to you.

Here it is:

Which version do you quote? All literal word for word translations for verse 13 have this:

English Standard Version
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.

Berean Literal Bible
But we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those having fallen asleep, so that you should not be grieved, just as also the rest, those having no hope.

New American Standard Bible
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.

King James Bible
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Young's Literal Translation
And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, that ye may not sorrow, as also the rest who have not hope,

None of the literal versions have "who sleep in death" in verse 13. Why is this important? The added sleep in death makes it sound like soul annihilation and not using "sleep" "asleep" as the euphemism Paul has for the intended purpose. That's what it is here, a euphemism for death of a believer.

STRONGS NT 2837: κοιμάω
κοιμάω, κοίμω: passive, present κοιμάομαι. κοιμωμαι; perfect κεκοίμημαι (cf. Winer's Grammar, 274 (257)); 1 aorist ἐκοιμήθην; 1 future κοιμηθήσομαι; (akin to κεῖμαι; Curtius, § 45); to cause to sleep, put to sleep (Homer, et al.); metaphorically, to still, calm, quiet, (Homer, Aeschylus, Plato); passive to sleep, fall asleep: properly, Matthew 28:13; Luke 22:45; John 11:12; Acts 12:6; the Sept. for שָׁכַב. metaphorically, and euphemistically equivalent to to die (cf. English to fall asleep): John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 11:30; 1 Corinthians 15:6, 51 (cf. Winers Grammar, 555 (517); Buttmann, 121 (106) note); 2 Peter 3:4; οἱ κοιμώμενοι, κεκοιμημένοι, κοιμηθέντες, equivalent to the dead: Matthew 27:52; 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; with ἐν Χριστῷ added (see ἐν, I. 6 b., p. 211b), 1 Corinthians 15:18; in the same sense Isaiah 14:8; Isaiah 43:17; 1 Kings 11:43; 2 Macc. 12:45; Homer, Iliad 11, 241; Sophocles Electr. 509. ​

As used by the apostle Paul in verse 13 it means death and not soul sleep. Paul would be contradicting himself as in 2 Corinthians 5 where he says:

6Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— 7for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. (NASB)​

Paul clearly states when one is at home in the body they are absent from the Lord. Then taking the corollary with saying we prefer to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Chrystal clear here.

And his statements above would also be axiomatic as "death" in most of Scriptures means the separation of the soul or immaterial inner man from the material outer man or body:

Death, Death-stroke (see also Die)

[ A-1,Noun,G2288, thanatos ]
death," is used in Scripture of:
(a) the separation of the soul (the spiritual part of man) from the body (the material part), the latter ceasing to function and turning to dust, e.g., John 11:13; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 5:7; Hebrews 7:23. In Hebrews 9:15, the AV, "by means of death" is inadequate; the RV, "a death having taken place" is in keeping with the subject. In Revelation 13:3, Revelation 13:12, the RV, "death-stroke" (AV, "deadly wound") is, lit., "the stroke of death:" (Death, Death-stroke (see also Die) - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words​

I've seen these before from a Bullinger site. Perhaps you could provide the context of said verses? And also include the use of the word death or breath in context as well?

 

[mmksparbud]

No, That is not what I said at all. What I said is that the general doctrine of resurrection is one of immediate life after death in a physical body. When we step out of these flesh and blood shells we will be stepping out of them on two legs, we will have arms and hands and eyes and ears, etc etc. And we will proceed to heaven or hell unless there is some kind of reprieve. There is no such thing as a future event called the resurrection of dead bodies in the ground.
Now resurrection, rise, risen is used to describe other things like the resurrection of a dead body like Lazarus or Jesus. It is also used illustratively to describe the new life we find in Christ.
As far as the general doctrine though. Resurrection is past for those who have died, present for those dyeing and future for those who are alive. As a doctrine it is there in opposition to false teachings about life after death like reincarnation, soul sleep, materialism and every other crazy thing the world came up with. But it is not a doctrine of God "uniting" us with the molecules of our dead flesh and blood bodies. We already have a far superior spiritual body like the angels .

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We are not changed until the last trump--then the dead in Christ are raised.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We are not changed until the last trump--then the dead in Christ are raised.

That is talking about being caught away like Elijah as opposed to dying. Either way. Like Moses dead and buried or Elijah raptured. We all end up with our spiritual bodies that lives inside this flesh and blood body.
Has nothing to do with the decomposed bodies turned to dirt laying in the ground.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is talking about being caught away like Elijah as opposed to dying. Either way. Like Moses dead and buried or Elijah raptured. We all end up with our spiritual bodies that lives inside this flesh and blood body.
Has nothing to do with the decomposed bodies turned to dirt laying in the ground.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

No--It means we won't all die---but everyone will be changed. Even Jesus referred to death as sleep.

Joh_11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh_11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

And even David is not shown to be in heaven:
Act_2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act_2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

[ewq1938]

And even David is not shown to be in heaven:
Act_2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act_2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Exactly how can context be preserved when one verse is posted then another verse 5 verses later?

Obviously the context is that David's body is not ascended in heaven unlike Christ's bodily ascension. There is no doubt David's soul and spirit are in heaven where all the righteous dead awaiting the resurrection fully awake. Soul sleep is a false doctrine that most Christians wisely reject.

 

[mmksparbud]

Exactly how can context be preserved when one verse is posted then another verse 5 verses later?

Obviously the context is that David's body is not ascended in heaven unlike Christ's bodily ascension. There is no doubt David's soul and spirit are in heaven where all the righteous dead awaiting the resurrection fully awake. Soul sleep is a false doctrine that most Christians wisely reject.

What's obvious about it?? It iw obvious that David is not in heaven. But Jesus is--He is our High Priest.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

No--It means we won't all die---but everyone will be changed. Even Jesus referred to death as sleep.

Joh_11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh_11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

And even David is not shown to be in heaven:
Act_2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act_2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Sorry, your reading of these verses diametrically disagrees with what Jesus said on the subject. He used the word ressurection and rise to describe that Abraham, Issac, Jacob, basically all the OT believers that died are living. In other words. Are already ressurected.

31. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living 33. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
The people were astonished at this doctrine because they like you believe in a one or two time future event you call the resurrection.

This is further solidified as a doctrine because Moses and Elijah appeared to three of the apostles, alive, already ressurected. Same with the story of the rich man and Lazarus that was spoken of as already happened.

Your stumbling on prophecy that uses illustrations to prophesy future events but also doctrines and missing the clarity of Jesus’s teaching on the subject. If the resurrection was a one or two time future event. The patriarchs, the prophets would all still be referred to as asleep or dead awaiting resurrection from the dead. But Jesus affirmed they were alive not waiting for resurrection but resurrected.

 

[ewq1938]

What's obvious about it??

The context is obvious and does not support what you are trying top make it say. Christ's bodily ascension is compared to David, who did not bodily ascend into heaven but his spirit is in heaven. Scripture is clear the spirit returns to God when we die.

 

[mmksparbud]

Sorry, your reading of these verses diametrically disagrees with what Jesus said on the subject. He used the word ressurection and rise to describe that Abraham, Issac, Jacob, basically all the OT believers that died are living. In other words. Are already ressurected.

31. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living 33. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
The people were astonished at this doctrine because they like you believe in a one or two time future event you call the resurrection.

This is further solidified as a doctrine because Moses and Elijah appeared to three of the apostles, alive, already ressurected. Same with the story of the rich man and Lazarus that was spoken of as already happened.

Your stumbling on prophecy that uses illustrations to prophesy future events but also doctrines and missing the clarity of Jesus’s teaching on the subject. If the resurrection was a one or two time future event. The patriarchs, the prophets would all still be referred to as asleep or dead awaiting resurrection from the dead. But Jesus affirmed they were alive not waiting for resurrection but resurrected.

Sorry--but you are misreading. Jesus did not day that at all. The fact is that the Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection of the dead. Jesus said plainly, He is the God of the living--the dead have no need of Him.

Mat 22:23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
They asked Him about the woman who had married 7 brothers and to which one would she be the wife of.
Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Of course, Elijah was translated never saw death---neither did Enoch. Moses was resurrected--

Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.