Do you believe this?

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AubreyM

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But what becomes of that man? He's standing there in the dark outside the party, ejected due to his poor choice of attire. What would you do? Me, I'd want to get back in to enjoy the party. And what's the condition? That I change my apparel, wash my robes in the Lamb's blood, in the lake of fire as it were, and don the clean white fine linen. Well off I go, the eternal fire's not going out in a hurry, the gates to the party are always open, the invitation stands, maybe the wedding ends but the reception is just beginning. Just that one condition of entry needs to be redressed...

Some ppl seem to think there's just a select few whooping it up inside while the many are left mooching around in the dark forever. But that's not how the parable goes. There's always hope.

The king got upset with him and told his servants to throw him out didn’t he?

The thing is all rewards that are earned in heaven are when we give up on things here on earth in looking towards God. (Faith and love subsides for rewards in my opinion cause what else would be rewarded for your good works? Or Jesus Christ good works through you?)

God is the rewarder and rewards based on your heart. All people are going to be rewarded a spiritual body, some will be outside of the kingdom of God, and some will be inside.

Both equipped with a spiritual body given by God judged based on what they did here in this life now.

Many people miss out of the rewards that we get now here in this like : peace with God, prayer life, and things like this because they reject God and the reject his son.

Also do not think he is angry about this that he sends them to hell forever but he rewards them justly and places them where they decided to be in the first place because of the Mercy of God.

I don’t believe in universal Christianity, though do believe God rewards justly based of what we do in this life good or bad for we all will be judged and not everyone is going to be in the kingdom of God due to their choice rejection.

What is your viewpoint ? Yours always seems people wash themselves in the blood of the lamb, is this after life? Or cause I don’t understand.

It may be possible for them to come in afterwards, cause God is not will anyone shall perish.

Just don’t believe everyone is going straight in to the kingdom right away because why would anyone need Jesus Christ?
 
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The king got upset with him and told his servants to throw him out didn’t he?

The thing is all rewards that are earned in heaven are when we give up on things here on earth in looking towards God. (Faith and love subsides for rewards in my opinion cause what else would be rewarded for your good works? Or Jesus Christ good works through you?)

God is the rewarder and rewards based on your heart. All people are going to be rewarded a spiritual body, some will be outside of the kingdom of God, and some will be inside.

Both equipped with a spiritual body given by God judged based on what they did here in this life now.

Many people miss out of the rewards that we get now here in this like : peace with God, prayer life, and things like this because they reject God and the reject his son.

Also do not think he is angry about this that he sends them to hell forever but he rewards them justly and places them where they decided to be in the first place because of the Mercy of God.

I don’t believe in universal Christianity, though do believe God rewards justly based of what we do in this life good or bad for we all will be judged and not everyone is going to be in the kingdom of God due to their choice rejection.

What is your viewpoint ? Yours always seems people wash themselves in the blood of the lamb, is this after life? Or cause I don’t understand.

It may be possible for them to come in afterwards, cause God is not will anyone shall perish.

Just don’t believe everyone is going straight in to the kingdom right away because why would anyone need Jesus Christ?

That's all well and good imho. Yes, the parable teaches God will not countenance the presence of sin.

I believe there's a distinction between salvation and inheritance that often gets missed. I'd accept the tripartite systematic view of salvation - justification, sanctification, glorification. And the practical view of salvation as cleansing then healing. That's maybe why Jesus warns us that we want to wake up to a world of life not a world of pain/ correction (Mt 25:46). The second death will hurt those who are corrupted, neglectful or reprobate, it's the painful process of overcoming, the suffering of detaching from beloved sins which leads to life. But everyone will be salted with fire, and salt is good.

The judgments are unto salvation for some, unto inheritance for others. God's judgments, even when destructive, are always ultimately for the good, to restore creation through Christ.

For inheritance, there are many mansions, and we can't all expect a penthouse on the riviera crowding out Peter and Paul's shacks lol. But seriously, if we can have faith, develop in a way that shows God to trust us (in the small things, standing in the evil day etc - Lord have mercy), then we're on the path to salvation, and can hope and expect to be rewarded, like Paul with his many crowns. To earn the right to be called sons of God, and inherit as a son.

This view to me is simple and accords with scripture, reason and experience. Do you consider it fringe/ controversial?
 
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AubreyM

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It’s your own view, so no problem here with what you see. When you mention mansions, that is something to me that is seen as the spiritual body we receive in heaven. Believe everyone will receive just reward for their faith and love and those who reject God will receive a condemned house (spiritual body).

Do not know how all of this works out but it is in accordance to scripture.

Do you view us living on a new earth or is it all spiritual based?

For me it all spiritual, some believe that we will have psychical bodies but do not believe that is what scripture teaches, our body dies and the spiritual body is raised in accordance to how God desires according to the rewards that are given.

Not sure what you mean get God to trust us?
What do you mean by that?

@Shrewd Manager
 
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There are professional Greek translators who translate it as age or age-during.
Revalation 14:11 reads:
11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages in Young's Literal Transition.
Check it out amigo Robert Young was self taught. There are people who claim to be professional lots of stuff including Greek scholars. I could quote from the Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon which represents 120-160 combined years of scholarship but you would probably blow it off because you have a favorite source which supports your denominational assumptions/presuppositions.
.....Same with the Eastern Orthodox Bible. [EOB] Likely same response. Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church for 2000+ years. Who better than the faculty of native Greek speaking scholars who translated the EOB know the meaning of Greek words?
.....What are we going to do? How about I demonstrate to you, from NT verses alone that "aionios" means eternal, everlasting etc?
“aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T.
……….….………eternal 42 times in the N.T.
……….….………everlasting 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” 28 times Jesus never uses “aionios” to refer something ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following verses aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aion/aionios” never means eternity/eternal because they sometimes refer to things which are not eternal.
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.…..
In the following ten verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.”

[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]
In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See note [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."
[fn]●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
= = = = = = = = = =
Paul used the word “aionios” 23 times. It is translated “eternal/everlasting” 20 times and world 3 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.

[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is parallels with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”

 
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Ceallaigh

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Check it out amigo Robert Young was self taught. There are people who claim to be professional lots of stuff including Greek scholars. I could quote from the Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon which represents 120-160 combined years of scholarship but you would probably blow it off because you have a favorite source which supports your denominational assumptions/presuppositions.
.....Same with the Eastern Orthodox Bible. [EOB] Likely same response. Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church for 2000+ years. Who better than the faculty of native Greek speaking scholars who translated the EOB know the meaning of Greek words?
.....What are we going to do? How about I demonstrate to you, from NT verses alone that "aionios" means eternal, everlasting etc?
“aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T.
……….….………eternal 42 times in the N.T.
……….….………everlasting 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” 28 times Jesus never uses “aionios” to refer something ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following verses aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aion/aionios” never means eternity/eternal because they sometimes refer to things which are not eternal.
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.…..
In the following ten verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.”

[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]
In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See note [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."
[fn]●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
= = = = = = = = = =
Paul used the word “aionios” 23 times. It is translated “eternal/everlasting” 20 times and world 3 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.

[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is parallels with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”

And you're not?

That's quite a cut and paste jumble.
 
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Der Alte

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And you're not?
That's quite a cut and paste jumble.
No, I am not self taught I have a master's degree from the the flagship seminary in my denomination.
"Cut and paste" implies using someone's else work and presenting it as my own. I quoted one paragraph each from three Greek grammars. The discussion of the 26 verses is my own work, pity you can't deal with a verse study.
 
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Ceallaigh

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No, I am not self taught I have a master's degree from the the flagship seminary in my denomination.
"Cut and paste" implies using someone's else work and presenting it as my own. I quoted one paragraph each from three Greek grammars. The discussion of the 26 verses is my own work, pity you can't deal with a verse study.

You already told me you cut and paste out of a program. Between that and the custom fount you use, it's a jumble. Maybe it looks clean on your end, but on my end it looks like a train wreck.
 
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Der Alte

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You already told me you cut and paste out of programs. Between that and the custom fount you use, it's a jumble. Maybe it looks clean on your end, but on my end it looks like a train wreck.
You either misinterpreted or misrepresented something I said. If I quote a source I clearly identify it and provide a link if possible. The bulk of my posts are my own words.
I usually use Time New Roman font size 5 standard at the top of the reply window.
 
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Ceallaigh

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You either misinterpreted or misrepresented something I said. If I quote a source I clearly identify it and provide a link if possible. The bulk of my posts are my own words.
I usually use Time New Roman font size 5 standard at the top of the reply window.

Whatever the case, it's a jumble.
 
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Saint Steven

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For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Tim 4:10)

Are you familiar with the saying, 'Everything looks yellow to the jaundiced eye', Clare?
I don't see this mentioned yet, but "those that believe" is a subset of the "all" who are being saved. Therefore, all are being saved, not just those who believe.
 
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Der Alte

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A masters in translating Koine Greek?
My degree included the required credit hours in Hebrew and Koine Greek. I had a little head start in Greek supervising Greek workers in Germany when Ike was president.. They didn't speak English or German so I started learning Greek to communicate with them. The first word I learned was trapezi/table.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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It’s your own view, so no problem here with what you see.

Thanks but I'm not that creative, it's really just (small o) orthodox ideas pieced together.

you see. When you mention mansions, that is something to me that is seen as the spiritual body we receive in heaven. Believe everyone will receive just reward for their faith and love and those who reject God will receive a condemned house (spiritual body).

Do not know how all of this works out but it is in accordance to scripture.

Do you view us living on a new earth or is it all spiritual based?

When God changed the heart and opened the eyes, He graced me with a glimpse 'over the Jordan' . I'd attempt to describe it as a vision of an earthly scene like a desert and sky, like a vast pacific openness filled with pure quality of relation to God, of divine presence and a powerful bond. Something like that.

The New Jerusalem is heaven come to the new earth, so there is still materiality of sorts, but not with the heaviness of flesh etc. I'm conscious that's vague and maybe contradictory.

For me it all spiritual, some believe that we will have psychical bodies but do not believe that is what scripture teaches, our body dies and the spiritual body is raised in accordance to how God desires according to the rewards that are given.

You may be right. Still, I tend to think transfiguration is more the pattern (Matthew 17:2-3). Resurrected bodies glorified imperishable and so on. This also works with the metaphors of mansions, new garments and so on (still a material form).

Do you spend much time thinking about the manner and form of afterlife existence? It seems a bit of a vain exercise to me. Enough for me to accept that Jesus saves, God's judgments save.

Not sure what you mean get God to trust us?
What do you mean by that?

To be faithful and obedient to the King, to not be swayed or led into captivity by the devil. How can a general trust his troops if they're not committed to carrying out the plan, proclaiming the gospel and raising up Christ to the glory of God?

Isn't that how trust is earned? By trusting in Him and doing His will. And thence on to inheritance, the right to be called sons of God! Meantime, though we are slaughtered like sheep all day long, we rejoice as more than conquerors in Christ.
 
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Thanks but I'm not that creative, it's really just (small o) orthodox ideas pieced together.



When God changed the heart and opened the eyes, He graced me with a glimpse 'over the Jordan' . I'd attempt to describe it as a vision of an earthly scene like a desert and sky, like a vast pacific openness filled with pure quality of relation to God, of divine presence and a powerful bond. Something like that.

The New Jerusalem is heaven come to the new earth, so there is still materiality of sorts, but not with the heaviness of flesh etc. I'm conscious that's vague and maybe contradictory.



You may be right. Still, I tend to think transfiguration is more the pattern (Matthew 17:2-3). Resurrected bodies glorified imperishable and so on. This also works with the metaphors of mansions, new garments and so on (still a material form).

Do you spend much time thinking about the manner and form of afterlife existence? It seems a bit of a vain exercise to me. Enough for me to accept that Jesus saves, God's judgments save.



To be faithful and obedient to the King, to not be swayed or led into captivity by the devil. How can a general trust his troops if they're not committed to carrying out the plan, proclaiming the gospel and raising up Christ to the glory of God?

Isn't that how trust is earned? By trusting in Him and doing His will. And thence on to inheritance, the right to be called sons of God! Meantime, though we are slaughtered like sheep all day long, we rejoice as more than conquerors in Christ.

Speaking of the transfiguration just got taught about some of that the other day.

Moses was there and Elijah, Jesus too, the disciples that were there with him saw them.


It was a picture that the law of Moses is over and Elijah had already came and it was now time to look towards Jesus he was the whitest white of all the earth beyond the color almost itself.

Atleast you are being honest and real with me, this is much better dialogue than ever in the past that have received with you.

Sometimes do tell people am thinking about heavenly things, and believe am going to go be with God and the Lord Jesus Christ one day, knowing that an imperfect and never could surmount to all the things He himself did.

My interpretation of heaven down to earth, or heavenly Jerusalem is that of a spiritual form to, that we can have a little piece of heaven now through faith and belief in God and the Lord Jesus Christ and have peace with God, with-in spiritually.

Have given up on belief of material things anymore, because God is spiritual. Maybe Jesus still has his body he raised with but sometimes think also about the transfiguration as though God and Jesus combined back together and are know as Lord God Almighty the one we will see as our judge at the end of life.

These are just my views and thank you for sharing me yours, @Shrewd Manager

In all of this an reminded of Romans 4 and about Abraham how it was full persuaded and didn’t doubt God, to allow him to be father of many nations.
 
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Ceallaigh

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I don't see this mentioned yet, but "those that believe" is a subset of the "all" who are being saved. Therefore, all are being saved, not just those who believe.

Something like those who believe, that the elect, the first fruits, will be priests and ministers to the rest during the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
 
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Saint Steven

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Thanks but I'm not that creative...

... I'd attempt to describe it as a vision of an earthly scene like a desert and sky, like a vast pacific openness filled with pure quality of relation to God, of divine presence and a powerful bond. Something like that. ...
Say what?
Not all that creative?
You painted quite the vivid picture with words there, buddy.
A breathtaking vista.
 
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Saint Steven

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Something like those who believe, that the elect, the first fruits, will be priests and ministers to the rest during the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
That's interesting. Yes, why are there firstfruits? What is their divine pupose in the redemption of humankind? Reminds me of this scripture, which is a good one to consider along side the topic verse. "...all will be made alive. But each in turn..." (some now, some later)

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
 
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Say what?
Not all that creative?
You painted quite the vivid picture with words there, buddy.
A breathtaking vista.

I wish I could truly articulate it. Now, as through a glass, darkly.
 
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