Do You Believe This?

[sunlover1]

12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet,
until his disease was exceeding great:
yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians.
13 And Asa slept with his fathers,
and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

 

[seeking Christ]

What? that camp is outside scripture and it's presuppositions create all kinds of havoc in even beginning to understand the sovereignty of God Almighty, the free-will camp at it's root is man-centered not God centered...No matter how Godly a person may be in that camp it nonetheless is true.

How does it benefit to create said "camp," and then assign all sorts of attributes to "those people," that they may not even adhere to?

 

[simonthezealot]

Because if people are standing firm in their theology, in this case libertarian free will they need to be consistent in apply that to every area of their study or they are not rightly dividing or being workmen with the word... The issues which arose are ones that can't be properly and consistently resolved without creating a gap in their consistency.

 

[sunlover1]

Because if people are standing firm in their theology, in this case libertarian free will they need to be consistent in apply that to every area of their study or they are not rightly dividing or being workmen with the word... The issues which arose are ones that can't be properly and consistently resolved without creating a gap in their consistency.

Hey simon. I posted to you on your tongues thread ...

 

[seeking Christ]

Because if people are standing firm in their theology, in this case libertarian free will they need to be consistent in apply that to every area of their study or they are not rightly dividing or being workmen with the word... The issues which arose are ones that can't be properly and consistently resolved without creating a gap in their consistency.

Hmmm .... you have a theological term you like for some reason, and somebody else has the teeniest overlap with it. Therefore you get to determine the rest of their world view for them? I trust you can see why I might have a problem with this scenario.

 

[simonthezealot]

World view lol hardly. You are reading into my comments wrongly if this is what you are getting out of it.
I know snlover has a biblical world view she is a friend of mine. I aam pointing out that against scripture librtarian free will is fraught with inconsistencies and when held up to whole of scripture falls way short.

 

[sunlover1]

World view lol hardly. You are reading into my comments wrongly if this is what you are getting out of it.
I know snlover has a biblical world view she is a friend of mine. I aam pointing out that against scripture librtarian free will is fraught with inconsistencies and when held up to whole of scripture falls way short.

I felt that you meant that too.
Here's the deal friend. I believe God gave man free will ..
I don't KNOW that to be for sure, that's just what I believe
from what I've seen, read and experienced with God.
But it's nothing at all I debate because it's not something I study or teach to my kids.

 

[Giver]

I felt that you meant that too.
Here's the deal friend. I believe God gave man free will ..
I don't KNOW that to be for sure, that's just what I believe
from what I've seen, read and experienced with God.
But it's nothing at all I debate because it's not something I study or teach to my kids.
In fact , my kids are taught Calvinism, Canons of Dort and such at youth group.. I let THEM be the judge of what they believe to be true.

Oh I'm not super thrilled when they study that stuff for weeks on end but they've had so much Bible training at home and still do that it's probably a good thing for them too. (Oops, it mighta been Westminster Catechism sorry, now i can't remember)

you may think me an irresponsible mom for not caring if they are studying this stuff but all I can do is pray for my kids daily and leave their life in the hands of God. If God ..um... gives me an unction to do it differently I do. So far it's been really cool)
Anyhow, my way of saying that I"m quite non sectarian in everything.
Just try to follow the leading of our Father.

Don’t people understand that there is no need for a Christian to study/research any question pertaining to God?

A Christian has access/has the mind of Christ. A Christian is taught everything about God by God.

(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

 

[simonthezealot]

Actually i love that approach, i sent justin to a charismmatic missionary college... We think alike lol..n domt think it wrong he had 5 years of doctrines of grace hammered into his head i wanted him to see the other side of the coin.

 

[seeking Christ]

Here's the deal friend. I believe God gave man free will ..

But when Simon (or anyone else) injects theological terms like "libertarian free will," does it dictate what you actually adhere to?

Of course not. In almost every instance what has just happened is a strawman has been constructed. The disagreement then becomes not between 2 people who have legitimate opportunity to edify one another, but between one person and a predetermined "other," who is not at all represented.

you may think me an irresponsible mom for not caring if they are studying this stuff

Not at all - I wish more Moms were as godly as you.

Anyhow, my way of saying that I"m quite non sectarian in everything.
Just try to follow the leading of our Father.

And of course I know you that well, and I expect Simon does too. Which is what really makes me think that whatever he means by "libertarian free will" may NOT apply to your actual thinking at all. I'm sure Simon has his reasons for developing the conversation as he did, and in as far as what he has meant by what he said he may be right. (I have no idea what he actually means by free will, let alone libertarian free will)

I'm just interjecting here because all this stuff tends to shut down actual communication. What you mean by free will likely doesn't cause any of the problems Simon is trying to address. And I think this opens up a very interesting area of the thread topic, that shouldn't be avoided.

 

[simonthezealot]

And es as giver said all knowledge comes from the Lord.

 

[sunlover1]

Don’t people understand that there is no need for a Christian to study/research any question pertaining to God?

A Christian has access/has the mind of Christ. A Christian is taught everything about God by God.

(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

Hi Giver.
GOD's the one who gave us teachers.
But yes, we have teachers so that we will eventually 'become' teachers
to other new Christians.
But teachers isn't a bad thing at all.
Not everyone hears God.
And some who think they hear God may not even hear God.

LOT OF STUFF GOING ON OUT THAR!

 

[sunlover1]

Actually i love that approach, i sent justin to a charismmatic missionary college... We think alike lol..n domt think it wrong he had 5 years of doctrines of grace hammered into his head i wanted him to see the other side of the coin.

Amen!
(What's doctrines of grace??? LOL.. Sounds pretty biblical )

But when Simon (or anyone else) injects theological terms like "libertarian free will," does it dictate what you actually adhere to?

Of course not. In almost every instance what has just happened is a strawman has been constructed. The disagreement then becomes not between 2 people who have legitimate opportunity to edify one another, but between one person and a predetermined "other," who is not at all represented.

Thanks for bringing that out. I saw it in a sense, but not as clearly as you've defined it. You're very good at that!

And of course I know you that well, and I expect Simon does too. Which is what really makes me think that whatever he means by "libertarian free will" may NOT apply to your actual thinking at all. I'm sure Simon has his reasons for developing the conversation as he did, and in as far as what he has meant by what he said he may be right. (I have no idea what he actually means by free will, let alone libertarian free will)

I'm just interjecting here because all this stuff tends to shut down actual communication. What you mean by free will likely doesn't cause any of the problems Simon is trying to address. And I think this opens up a very interesting area of the thread topic, that shouldn't be avoided.

Probably a good idea. Because I know this seems to mean a great deal to simon.

We're all concerned with different ministries.
For me it's all of the more "relational" things.
Love
Grace
Healings
Deliverance
Community etc.

Heh, coming to GT can really mess up your mind. If you're not careful
you can forget that God really does want to bless His kids. Around here
you may get the idea that unless we beg and grovel, we're arrogant.
When in fact, it's our GOD who wants us to enter in boldly and receive.
The God who would give us His very own SON and said that there's nothing
He'd withold from us.
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--
how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Yet in GT it's NO healing, (healing very bad, suffering good)
NO Spirit manifestations (supernatural very bad, be quiet and more reverent)
NO hearing God (God communicating intimately, very bad)
And then there's the common accusation of "boasting"!!!

Anyhow, that last part was just a rant , nothing to do with you guys.
Just letting off steam LOL
Back to the subject at hand
YES, you're right and thank you for bringing that to our attention

 

[seeking Christ]

Ha - enjoying your rant:

Yet in GT it's NO healing, (healing very bad, suffering good)
NO Spirit manifestations (supernatural very bad, be quiet and more reverent)
NO hearing God (God communicating intimately, very bad)
And then there's the common accusation of "boasting"!!!

I am reminded of a not so old hymn, perhaps you've heard? It has endless verses, best when made up on the spot. Case in point:

devil don't allow no healing here

v. 2 " " " " Spiritual manifestations here

v. 3 " " " " hearing God here

v. 4 " " " " boasting in the Lord here

And I'm hoping you already know the refrain of the chorus, otherwise I will really feel very silly

 

[sunlover1]

Ha - enjoying your rant:



I am reminded of a not so old hymn, perhaps you've heard? It has endless verses, best when made up on the spot. Case in point:

devil don't allow no healing here

v. 2 " " " " Spiritual manifestations here

v. 3 " " " " hearing God here

v. 4 " " " " boasting in the Lord here

And I'm hoping you already know the refrain of the chorus, otherwise I will really feel very silly

OHHH LOL.
And WE don't care what devil don't allow...
gonna boast in the Lord ANYhow...
?? that one? lol

 

[seeking Christ]

Yeah - that one

 

[sunlover1]

Yeah - that one

Sounds like a plan stan!
And I bid you a good night!

Long day tomorrow

 

[Giver]

Hi Giver.
GOD's the one who gave us teachers.
But yes, we have teachers so that we will eventually 'become' teachers
to other new Christians.
But teachers isn't a bad thing at all.
Not everyone hears God.
And some who think they hear God may not even hear God.

LOT OF STUFF GOING ON OUT THAR!

Yes one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is teaching. That is all of your opinion that can be backed up by the written Word of God.

Once one is taught that Jesus is God, and is baptized in his name, then he or she no longer needs any one to teach him or her about God.

(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

Jesus said that he would call his own out by name, and they would not recognize any one else’s voice.

Has anyone who is not heard Jesus call them out by name every wondered why not?

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."