Do You Believe This?

[sunlover1]

And what the heck is it about my avatar too? I tell folks its not me, what more do you want?

You're wierd.
I love that picture. nothing wrong with it.
I seriously was playing with the glasses lol.

I really love black and whites as well as silhouettes and tried combining my likes to a woman wearing a cowgirl hat. An apropriate headcover, I thought it was a cute idea.

Ahh, very artistic!

Should I take down this avatar and put up an older one of me or something? I dont even look like me either since I have gotten older

I LIKE your avatar you goofball lol.
Now stop it.

Why is my avatar be of such interest, really? A shadowed out version of a female profile (under a cowboy hat) seems to invoke so much wonder?

No one said anything about my other cowgirl one I had up just as long

Dang, was I gone that long!?

Now Im hoping you burn your pretzel dogs

All this woe to me just for puttin on de glasses?
Not my pretzels!!
Hey girl.

We're hijacking my own thread! lol.
Oh you so bad

 

[Fireinfolding]

You use your sunglasses for my colors and you know it

I'll get off your thread now, I did say I would not jest on threads having doctrine.

I will refrain

 

[Partaker of Christ]

A few thoughts if I may add. (sorry if it is a bit long)

Although Jesus says the works we do, it is not actually us doing them but Christ Himself doing them

John 14:14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

That cuts out any boasting and glorifying the self, because we are simply the vessels.

"If you ask Me anything" means absolutely anything, and that is very wide and long, BUT, Jesus said "In My Name" and that narrows this 'anything' rights down.

"In My Name"

Jesus said that all that He did and said was not of Himself, but of the Father. Jesus would only say and do what He heard and what He saw His Father doing. So, what Jesus said and did, was in the Name of the Father.

When a king would send his servant to xyz, that servant would say 'I come in the name of the king', and he would say or do whatever his king had commanded him to say or do.

Jesus went on to say "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word"
John14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

It is not so much a commandment, but a statement of fact, that If we love Him, then we 'naturally' will keep His word.

This love we have is from God, poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit in the new man.

1Jn 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Rom 5:5 And hope does not put to shame, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Rom 15:30 Now I beg you, brothers, through the Lord Jesus Christ, and through the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in prayers to God on my behalf,

1Jn 3:16 By this we have come to know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives in behalf of our brothers.
1Jn 3:17 But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother having need, and shuts off his compassion towards him, how does the love of God abide in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

1Jn 3:19 And in this we know that we are from the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
1Jn 3:20 Because if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and He knows all things.
1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

1Jn 3:22 And whatever we should ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and we do the things pleasing before Him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and should love one another, just as He gave commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, from the Spirit whom He gave us.

To summarise, what I am trying to get across, is that the key to doing the things that Jesus did, and even greater things, is 'LOVE'

If we have truly believed on Him, then we have the 'love of God poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. If this is so, then we will keep His word, and we will abide in Him, and the Son and the Father will abide in us, and we will know His will and what we should ask of Him, in His Name.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have come to know and believe the love which God has in us. God is love, and he that abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Jn 4:17 By this love has been perfected with us: that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because just as He is, we also are in this world.

1Jn 4:20 If anyone claims, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how is it possible for him to love God whom he has not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God should love his brother also.

If you 'truly' love your brother who you see, not in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth, then you will do the works that Jesus did.

 

[sunlover1]

Thanks for posting PartakerOfChrist!
I see that you do believe that God empowers us to do those
things Christ did. I appreciate your post and all of the verses.
Looks like you love God's Word! AMEN!

Out of curiosity,
Do you do any praying for those who need healing?
Or have you seen anyone healed?

Thanks again.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Is our Lord speaking to every believer individually, or to His Church collectively?

Do I, personally, need to walk on water or raise the dead--and if I don't, then perhaps I'm not a "Real Christian"? Or is it that, Christ's Church, being given the Spirit, and the authority to remit sins, preach Gospel, baptize, (etc) has done, is doing, and will do great things?

I don't think our Lord was saying that I, myself, would be doing greater things than Himself. I can assure you, I've never walked on water, raised the dead, or made blind people see--and yet I firmly believe I am part of the Body of Christ, quickened by the Holy Spirit, and an heir to eternal life and resurrection from the dead in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sunlover1]

Is our Lord speaking to every believer individually, or to His Church collectively?

Do I, personally, need to walk on water or raise the dead--and if I don't, then perhaps I'm not a "Real Christian"? Or is it that, Christ's Church, being given the Spirit, and the authority to remit sins, preach Gospel, baptize, (etc) has done, is doing, and will do great things?

I don't think our Lord was saying that I, myself, would be doing greater things than Himself. I can assure you, I've never walked on water, raised the dead, or made blind people see--and yet I firmly believe I am part of the Body of Christ, quickened by the Holy Spirit, and an heir to eternal life and resurrection from the dead in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't know that it's "mandatory" to 'do" anything He did.
But since we are as He is, in this world, wouldn't it follow
that we'd DO the things He did?
That goodness of God for man to see, demonstrated in the
world through the body of Christ that's physically walking
around town?

Just a thought anyhow

 

[YeShallTread]

What is spiritual? The literal casting out of demons?

If by "spiritual", you mean that exorcism is done through the Spirit, then I agree with you.

LOL, well it is a literal casting out of a spirit.

To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11

As I understand it, the gifts (prophecy, healing, miracles, tongues etc) that were given to the Church by the Spirit are still around, even today. People are still being physically healed, physically raised from the dead, miracles are still happening etc..

I agree that the gifts are still given but do not agree that it is a literal raising from the dead. Rather it is being raised to spiritual life, a new person is born. The blind are those, as was I, with "eyes to see and see not" but are given spiritual sight and spiritual hearing.

Ezekiel 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
​

We dwell within this rebellious house, our flesh bodies, until...we see spiritually.

..and yet Paul was not even affected by a poisonous snake bite during his travels? Do you believe that the LORD will keep those who serve Him from all physical harm till their job is done?

Yes for it has happened to me. However, if the physical harm happened then I would be physically harmed. He prevents that from happening...not erases it when it is done.

In the case of Paul....I believe it was the literal/natural that is to show the way, our example of the spiritual.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
​

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

​

Or, we should also see/understand the event of Paul and the viper with our spiritual eyes....

Acts 28:3-4 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
​

Viper = a viper, offspring of vipers, addressed to cunning, malignant, wicked men
​

The viper, a wicked man, an offspring of Satan...the serpent.....was a venomous beast. What is a beast that spews poison? A false prophet.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
​

Acts 28:5-6 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
​

The venomous beast/wicked man was shaken off into the fire. The "fire" is the word of the Lord...it devours His enemies. Those that speak His Words cannot be harmed by venomous beasts/serpents IF we follow Him. We can drink their poison doctrine and are not harmed because we have truth...spiritual understanding.

Jeremiah 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make My words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
​

1 Peter 3:13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
​

For example, do you believe a man of God, if thrown into a furnace by the wicked, can walk in the fires unharmed as Daniel did? Or do you believe this is no longer possible?

Daniel was thrown into the den of lions...not the furnace. But we are unharmed when we are spiritually facing lions and fire from our enemies for He is with us. We have His words, His truth to sustain us in all spiritual battles. If we are thrown into a literal fire we shall literally burn.

If you believe in the literal healing of the sick, why is then that you seek to "spiritualize" the gifts of the Holy-Spirit?

I think the sick can be healed if He wills it to be. I spiritualize all things as He has given me eyes to see the spirit of the Word.

 

[YeShallTread]

Is our Lord speaking to every believer individually, or to His Church collectively?

Do I, personally, need to walk on water or raise the dead--and if I don't, then perhaps I'm not a "Real Christian"? Or is it that, Christ's Church, being given the Spirit, and the authority to remit sins, preach Gospel, baptize, (etc) has done, is doing, and will do great things?

I don't think our Lord was saying that I, myself, would be doing greater things than Himself. I can assure you, I've never walked on water, raised the dead, or made blind people see--and yet I firmly believe I am part of the Body of Christ, quickened by the Holy Spirit, and an heir to eternal life and resurrection from the dead in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

-CryptoLutheran

I must disagree with you Crypto....you, as a Christian, have indeed done those things. When you teach others you have helped the blind see and the deaf hear. When you bring others to Christ you have "raised the dead." As for walking on water...what is the water upon which you walk?

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.


​

Again, as a Christian, a child of God, you are sent forth to "walk" on many waters (people, nations, etc), to teach, to share His Word so that those waters are no longer under the domain of "the harlot" but are also children of God.

 

[Lion King]

LOL, well it is a literal casting out of a spirit.






I agree that the gifts are still given but do not agree that it is a literal raising from the dead. Rather it is being raised to spiritual life, a new person is born. The blind are those, as was I, with "eyes to see and see not" but are given spiritual sight and spiritual hearing.

Ezekiel 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
​

We dwell within this rebellious house, our flesh bodies, until...we see spiritually.






Yes for it has happened to me. However, if the physical harm happened then I would be physically harmed. He prevents that from happening...not erases it when it is done.

In the case of Paul....I believe it was the literal/natural that is to show the way, our example of the spiritual.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
​

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

​

Or, we should also see/understand the event of Paul and the viper with our spiritual eyes....

Acts 28:3-4 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
​

Viper = a viper, offspring of vipers, addressed to cunning, malignant, wicked men
​

The viper, a wicked man, an offspring of Satan...the serpent.....was a venomous beast. What is a beast that spews poison? A false prophet.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
​

Acts 28:5-6 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
​

The venomous beast/wicked man was shaken off into the fire. The "fire" is the word of the Lord...it devours His enemies. Those that speak His Words cannot be harmed by venomous beasts/serpents IF we follow Him. We can drink their poison doctrine and are not harmed because we have truth...spiritual understanding.

Jeremiah 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make My words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
​

1 Peter 3:13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
​

Daniel was thrown into the den of lions...not the furnace. But we are unharmed when we are spiritually facing lions and fire from our enemies for He is with us. We have His words, His truth to sustain us in all spiritual battles. If we are thrown into a literal fire we shall literally burn.






I think the sick can be healed if He wills it to be. I spiritualize all things as He has given me eyes to see the spirit of the Word.

Well, let's agree to disagree, since I choose to believe in the literal interpretation (as well as the spiritual) regarding the gifts of the Spirit.

I believe in the literal healing of the sick through the Holy-Spirit.
I believe in the physical resurrection of the dead through the Holy-Spirit.
I believe in literal miracles (a person can be bitten by a poisonous snake without any ill effects, a person can walk through a fire without suffering any burns etc).
I believe in the literal casting out of demons.
I believe in prophecy.
I believe in tongues (that Christians can speak a new language of man without needing to learn it).
I believe in tongues (the language of angels).

etc

 

[YeShallTread]

Well, let's agree to disagree, since I choose to believe in the literal interpretation (as well as the spiritual) regarding the gifts of the Spirit.

I believe in the literal healing of the sick through the Holy-Spirit.

As do I but I believe "the sick" refers many times to the spiritually sick.

I believe in the physical resurrection of the dead through the Holy-Spirit.

Our flesh bodies return to dust upon physical death. Our spirits are resurrected to life while we walk the earth.

I believe in literal miracles (a person can be bitten by a poisonous snake without any ill effects, a person can walk through a fire without suffering any burns etc).

Please don't try it.

I believe in the literal casting out of demons.

They are literally cast out but they are spiritual.

I believe in prophecy.

So do I but today prophecy is not telling some unknown, new tale from God. Rather prophecy is revealtion of what is already written, as revealed by the Holy Spirit. It is greater understanding, knowledge and wisdom of His word...not new words but spiritual understanding.

I believe in tongues (that Christians can speak a new language of man without needing to learn it).

Impossible. Since the tower of Bable one must learn a new language/tongue of other nationalities.

I believe in tongues (the language of angels).

etc

So do I. The Holy Spirit reveals to us understanding of the word...spiritual understanding is unknown to others but known to us as we receive it. It is NOT bable. Some are given a gift in that they have a great apptitude to learn languages where others do not. I am a "do not."

 

[Lion King]

Our flesh bodies return to dust upon physical death. Our spirits are resurrected to life while we walk the earth.

Was Jesus Christ physically resurrected from the dead by God?

 

[YeShallTread]

Was Jesus Christ physically resurrected from the dead by God?

Acts 2:31-32 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

2:34-36 And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, He said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore He saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:



​

The flesh of Jesus did not see corruption. The flesh of man (here given in the example of David) "saw corruption," as will our flesh and blood when we physically die....

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
​

 

[Lion King]

Acts 2:31-32 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

2:34-36 And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, He said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore He saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:



​

The flesh of Jesus did not see corruption. The flesh of man (here given in the example of David) "saw corruption," as will our flesh and blood when we physically die....

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
​

Do you believe Lazarus was physically resurrected by God?

 

[YeShallTread]

Do you believe Lazarus was physically resurrected by God?

Yes. He was our example of the natural for the spiritual. As He raised Lazarus literally we are raised spiritually. Why did Jesus do this?

John 12:1-2 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom He raised from the dead. There they made Him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with Him.

12:9-11 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that He was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom He had raised from the dead. But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death; Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.


​

For instance, this passage tells us that after His resurrection graves were opened, as was the grave of Lazarus. However, the spiritual bodies arose...not their old rotted corpse which returns to dust. The saints spiritually rose and went to the holy city.

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

​

Where is the holy city?

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

​

 

[Lion King]

Yes. He was our example of the natural for the spiritual. As He raised Lazarus literally we are raised spiritually. Why did Jesus do this?

John 12:1-2 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom He raised from the dead. There they made Him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with Him.

12:9-11 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that He was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom He had raised from the dead. But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death; Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.


​

For instance, this passage tells us that after His resurrection graves were opened, as was the grave of Lazarus. However, the spiritual bodies arose...not their old rotted corpse which returns to dust. The saints spiritually rose and went to the holy city.

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

​

Where is the holy city?

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

​

No offense, but you have a strange way of interpreting the Scriptures.

 

[YeShallTread]

No offense, but you have a strange way of interpreting the Scriptures.

No offense taken. But, is it my "interpretation" when it is His Words telling the story?

 

[Lion King]

No offense taken. But, is it my "interpretation" when it is His Words telling the story?

I always thought that Christ was the firstfruits of the resurrection, and everyone who belonged to Him would be resurrected to live forever (i.e in their spiritual bodies) at His second coming. No?

Has the resurrection of the dead already taken place?

 

[YeShallTread]

I always thought that Christ was the firstfruits of the resurrection, and everyone who belonged to Him would be resurrected to live forever (i.e in their spiritual bodies) at His second coming. No?

Has the resurrection of the dead already taken place?

Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection. The resurrection of those that died before His crucifixion, those that were Godly souls, did not, could not take place until that time. So, the resurrection of those dead took place at that time.

Today, when we are resurrected to life, to spiritual life, it must take place before our physical death or it would be too late. All physically living, breathing humans are either spiritually dead or spiritually living.

The question is...when is His second coming to each of us individually? Today He dwells in me so He has quickened me. I live.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
​

 

[Lion King]

Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection. The resurrection of those that died before His crucifixion, those that were Godly souls, did not, could not take place until that time. So, the resurrection of those dead took place at that time.

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

The Scriptures say the resurrection is in the future though?

Today, when we are resurrected to life, to spiritual life, it must take place before our physical death or it would be too late. All physically living, breathing humans are either spiritually dead or spiritually living.

The question is...when is His second coming to each of us individually? Today He dwells in me so He has quickened me. I live.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
​

Were Abraham, David, Joseph, Moses etc not born of the Spirit before their physical death?

 

[sunlover1]

"I tell you the truth.
The person that believes in me
will do the same things I have done.
Yes! He will do even greater things than I have done.
Why? Because I am going to the Father.
And if you ask for anything in my name, I will do it for you.
Then the Father's glory will be shown through the Son.
If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it."

Can you some examples of the same things you've done
and the greater things you've done?

Anyone else experience God through these things?