Do you believe "might makes right" is justifiable at all?

[VCR-2000]

In the Bible, Jesus said that we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, and we are to forgive. I believe this teaching is dubious sometimes because some people in the world are just evil, wicked, cruel, any love or prayer is not going to automatically change this. God doesn't always will evil people to perish or to have victims be saved from evil. In fact, in the modern cultural climate every day it is more "bad news" happening anymore, much less "gray" or positive trends. Why would I forgive someone that was truly so evil and deceptive they ruined a large population of people?

Sorry, but some people just don't deserve respect or love at all because they are slick schemers or other badman who are deceiving or harming a large amount of the population and I'd rather people fight back battles in the face of such evil than let it go or just give it only to God. So the devil is effectively winning and has been pretty successful so far with using things to deceive more people than the people that are "in tune with good things" so to speak.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Let me put it this way; I think God is essentially teaching us to be patient. Patient, because those kinds of people will receive far worse than we could ever inflict for their sins.

That and, after all, deciding who is punished and in what way is very tricky in and of itself. Are any of us really qualified to make such calls? In any case, in and outside of religion, evil will always exist. Period.

 

[VCR-2000]

And I'm not denying that evil will exist. Some of it is greater than others, though.

 

[Albion]

In the Bible, Jesus said that we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, and we are to forgive. I believe this teaching is dubious sometimes because some people in the world are just evil, wicked, cruel, any love or prayer is not going to automatically change this.

What does that have to do with forgiving them?

 

[jayem]

I'm not at all religious. But I agree that forgiveness is worthy and valuable. You don't forgive to benefit one who's hurt or wronged you. You forgive to benefit yourself. Holding on to bitterness and resentment--even though it may be a natural and understandable reaction to being hurt--is physically and psychologically unhealthy. In order to fully heal, you have to let go of hateful and vindictive thoughts. This was recognized long before Jesus. As the Buddha taught, the beauty of forgiveness is not about the other. It's to purify your own soul.

 

[muichimotsu]

In the Bible, Jesus said that we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, and we are to forgive. I believe this teaching is dubious sometimes because some people in the world are just evil, wicked, cruel, any love or prayer is not going to automatically change this. God doesn't always will evil people to perish or to have victims be saved from evil. In fact, in the modern cultural climate every day it is more "bad news" happening anymore, much less "gray" or positive trends. Why would I forgive someone that was truly so evil and deceptive they ruined a large population of people?

Sorry, but some people just don't deserve respect or love at all because they are slick schemers or other badman who are deceiving or harming a large amount of the population and I'd rather people fight back battles in the face of such evil than let it go or just give it only to God. So the devil is effectively winning and has been pretty successful so far with using things to deceive more people than the people that are "in tune with good things" so to speak.

People deserve compassion, not necessarily respect or love, which would create a contradiction if indeed one would be saying, "Oh no Hitler didn't do anything bad," when he demonstrably did. Compassion and consideration that people are flawed is, I'd say, a step in terms of rehabilitation and restorative justice rather than retributive.

Might makes right is practically a near identical phrasing of ends justify the means. Might should serve right, to quote, I believe, King Arthur in fiction and such, because otherwise, it becomes purely a matter of who has the biggest weapon and wields it to subdue anyone who contests their rule, a state of the worst form of anarchy.

 

[jayem]

Might doesn’t make right. But might makes reality. At least for a while.

 

[durangodawood]

Obviously "turn the other cheek" needs a giant footnote to explain how it should be applied.

Nobody, Christian or otherwise, thinks its always a correct response.

 

[VCR-2000]

Obviously "turn the other cheek" needs a giant footnote to explain how it should be applied.

Nobody, Christian or otherwise, thinks its always a correct response.

This is right.

Sometimes, we aren't even talking about smaller things. We are talking about things that may be a lot on a larger scope. Stuff that is a lot more truly evil and dangerous.

 

[Ken-1122]

I'm not at all religious. But I agree that forgiveness is worthy and valuable. You don't forgive to benefit one who's hurt or wronged you. You forgive to benefit yourself. Holding on to bitterness and resentment--even though it may be a natural and understandable reaction to being hurt--is physically and psychologically unhealthy.

Don't cha think it is possible to hate someone yet still remain psychologically healthy?

 

[jayem]

Don't cha think it is possible to hate someone yet still remain psychologically healthy?

It depends. I can say I hate Bernie Madoff for scamming $60+ billion from thousands of people who trusted him with their money. Any rational person would hate such a despicable lowlife. But he never stole any money from me or anyone I know. So my hatred is an abstract, dispassionate reaction to a monstrous crime. It has no personal dimension, and causes me no psychological distress. The hatred to which I was referring is that deep, consuming, bitterness, anger, and malice many people feel towards one who has profoundly hurt them personally. It's not psychologically or physically healthy to carry around these negative feelings. It's trite to say, but it's true that you can't forget, but you can forgive. And forgiveness is necessary to heal yourself.

 

[muichimotsu]

Obviously "turn the other cheek" needs a giant footnote to explain how it should be applied.

Nobody, Christian or otherwise, thinks its always a correct response.

I wouldn't speak that broadly, passive pacifist nonresistant Christians have existed in history, I believe Leo Tolstoy was one

 

[durangodawood]

I wouldn't speak that broadly, passive pacifist nonresistant Christians have existed in history, I believe Leo Tolstoy was one

I bet Tolstoy would have had his limits re turn the other cheek.

 

[Robban]

Obviously "turn the other cheek" needs a giant footnote to explain how it should be applied.

Nobody, Christian or otherwise, thinks its always a correct response.

Psalms 141:5 ?

Rebuke or correction.
In that sense it would be more understandable.

would reckon.


PS, not a physical strike

 

[muichimotsu]

I bet Tolstoy would have had his limits re turn the other cheek.

You bet? I don't think either of us are in the position to necessarily speak for Tolstoy, but dealing in absolutes as far as ethical behavior constraints is kind of far more common when you have a supernatural basis for the belief

 

[variant]

In the Bible, Jesus said that we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, and we are to forgive. I believe this teaching is dubious sometimes because some people in the world are just evil, wicked, cruel, any love or prayer is not going to automatically change this. God doesn't always will evil people to perish or to have victims be saved from evil. In fact, in the modern cultural climate every day it is more "bad news" happening anymore, much less "gray" or positive trends. Why would I forgive someone that was truly so evil and deceptive they ruined a large population of people?

Sorry, but some people just don't deserve respect or love at all because they are slick schemers or other badman who are deceiving or harming a large amount of the population and I'd rather people fight back battles in the face of such evil than let it go or just give it only to God. So the devil is effectively winning and has been pretty successful so far with using things to deceive more people than the people that are "in tune with good things" so to speak.

Might makes right, is it's own justification. You may not like it, but that is how it works.

The alternative is the same across all other versions of morality, that none of us want to live in a society ruled by mere might. We seek to have better reasons to cooperate with one another.

 

[SkyWriting]

In the Bible, Jesus said that we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, and we are to forgive. I believe this teaching is dubious sometimes because some people in the world are just evil, wicked, cruel, any love or prayer is not going to automatically change this.

True. Gods Kingdom is not of this world.

 

[SkyWriting]

Sorry, but some people just don't deserve respect or love at all because they are slick schemers or other badman who are deceiving or harming a large amount of the population and I'd rather people fight back battles in the face of such evil than let it go or just give it only to God. So the devil is effectively winning and has been pretty successful so far with using things to deceive more people than the people that are "in tune with good things" so to speak.

God will prevail in the end, not in this life.

 

[SkyWriting]

So the devil is effectively winning and has been pretty successful so far with using things to deceive more people than the people that are "in tune with good things" so to speak.

Yes, the Devil is the God of this world.

 

[VCR-2000]

Honestly, I'd like it one day if we owned these people like it must be awesome to be an artist or something who earns ~100%+ more than the average income and be privileged while complaining about those considered "lower" being privileged. That's what I believe sometimes.